What Changes Does Toyota Need To Make To Upright Both Scion and Lexus?

Come out with a mid-size verison of the LS, not try to copy the 5er or E class. The GS has really never made a dent in this market.

That is probably because the ES has been just fine soaking up sales in its own market in between that of the IS and GS.

Lexus, design with passion, inspiration and not follow the crowd. Scion, need funky more youthful designs and more power. Very simple.

For the money, Scions are a no-brainer, they're that good.

As for Lexus, I read somewhere they might drop the LF-A V10 into the GS-F, that'll destroy everything in the same class, also Lexus is only a generation away from having the best driving dynamics as well, and combined with already best in class reliability, owner satisfaction, luxury, and importantly the best hybrids models, future looks bright for Lexus.

LF-A is a go but the GS-F is in limbo last time I checked.

The biggest problem with the line up in general is they are not unique.

Nice? yes....
Reliable? yes...
Quality? yes...
Value? yes...
Standout by being unique, or stand out in multiple categories? Not really.

Look at US lightweight Audi, VW and even Subaru.. both are suffering only slightly in the downturn. But they all offer something that is NOT mainstream.

Think sales and value for the dollar are the ticket? Factor in that the fact the VW and Audi are anything but inexpensive, still are not suffering to the same degree as any Toyota marque.

Those conservative folks that wisely bought an RX or a Scion are simply not seeing anything that is motivating them to buy from the brand. The refreshes are so subtle that it takes a real aficionado to tell the years apart.

I know if I had a 3 year old RX right now I wouldn't trade it in for a new one. Most likely because the changes are so minimal and vague that I simply would hold on to what I have until things get better or something motivates me otherwise.

Some people take a certain amount of security following the pack around buying the same cars that their neighbors do. But those people are the very same that won't move until something forces them to.

"Standout by being unique, or stand out in multiple categories? Not really."

Uniqueness?- The only luxury hybrids. That's unique.

"Look at US lightweight Audi, VW and even Subaru.. both are suffering only slightly in the downturn. But they all offer something that is NOT mainstream."

What they are offering is new products (A4, A5, Q5, CC, minivan whatever odd name it is called, Sportwagen, diesels, Forrester). Their entire slaes increases are on the backs of new product. Only a couple months ago did Lexus debut a new product, its only one during this economic downturn, the RX, and it is selling well.

"Those conservative folks that wisely bought an RX or a Scion are simply not seeing anything that is motivating them to buy from the brand."

Conservative folks do not buy Scions. Anecdotal evidence of seniors driving xBs notwithstanding, Scion consistently has some of the lowest age of ownership. Lexus also has a high repeat ownership percentage. You can find those numbers more easily than I, but you know it's true.

"I know if I had a 3 year old RX right now I wouldn't trade it in for a new one. Most likely because the changes are so minimal and vague that I simply would hold on to what I have until things get better or something motivates me otherwise."

And yet the RX is the bright spot in the lineup.

For Scion, offer the several customization kits that they show off in their commercials as cheap options.

They need a car with real guts and potential to the tuner crowd too. Honda does well and Hyundai is getting there.

I usually dont play this game, but this could be fun.

Scion-

Well, we all know that the tC is ready for its update. Question is, will it be the Toybaru, or do they have something else in mind? Contrary to the enthusiast community here, most buyers won't care if it's RWD or continues on the same platform, as long as it has more power, better fuel efficiency and a dash more style. It was fine when it came out, just in need of an update now.

The xB isnt going to be changed anytime soon, it's just too new. Just stick in the new 2.5L for increased power and fuel efficiency and add a couple styling tweaks so that buyers know that it has been refreshed, and it'll do fine for a couple more years.

What can you do to the xD? The 1.8L is fairly new, they're not gonna change that anytime soon. It has the funky styling, maybe just jazz that up a little more.

Bring on the iQ, natch. No-brainer there.

These are not pie in the sky dreams, either. Practical, easy fixes for at least the next couple years.

Lexus-

top down...

LS600hL. An upgraded HSD would bring better power and efficiency, allowing it to live up to its (unmet) promises. I'm guessing they're still using the last version. How about a SWB, RWD version for lighter weight and better numbers?

LS460. Fine as is. Very fine.

GS. This one is ready for an upgrade. I love the curent body, so they shouldn't deviate from it too much. Current V-6 and V-8 engines are fine, but if they want to keep a hybrid version, they've gotta decide where it fits. It was great when the first series of engines were old, but the 3.5L and 4.6L engines are just too good to justify the hybrid premium right now. How about the hybrid combo from the LS600 (newest HSD version of course) for some serious power. GS-F? Only if they plan on hooking it up to the LF-A's engine.

ES? It is what it is, deal with it. People whom it is made for like it.

IS. Couple more years on it, so how about a new base engine. 204 hp? really, c'mon, they can do better. The styling still rocks.

HS. It's brand new, give it a chance. But, that Camry sourced HSD/engine combo is already old. I'm guessing an update soon to a 2.5L engine with the new HSD. Combined 200hp, 40 mpg maybe? Those are the kinda numbers this car really needs.

LX. Fine

GX. Upgrade coming (this fall?) with new style and great new 4.6L V8, sounds good to me.

RX. Doing fine, thank you very much.

LF-A. Now. Please.

New + fresh designs = young buyers.

What Scion needs is new unique original design to bring back younger buyers.

Lexus needs the economy to recover so its Toyota customers will once again buy a Lexus.

What Scion really needs is to make their cars front dominant awd cars.

Very simple- Lexus needs to be Jekyll and Hyde.

Luxury and Hybrid RX and LS/HS for the Geriatric's and Greenies.......a la Jekyll

Sportier IS and GS for the Hyde's..... dump the LX.

If by hangs you mean hangs it's head in shame then I say yes.

Mitchell...you're a bag of douche. If you think Lexs styling is amazing and they are doing well right now, why don't you hand over whatever you are smoking and put down the Kool-Aid.

IS : drop the 2.5 V6, replace it by a turbo 4 for better MPG and a more nervous and sporty feel.

ES : As long as it sells .. keep it as is, but keep a close eye on Hyundai and Buick.

HS : Cross-over it, it would look better as a small SUV than as a car and could compete against the RDX-EX-X3-X1-GLK

GS : Make it a 4 door coupe a la CLS, the GS should be a niche car

LS : Bring a V6 version and make it Hybrid, then you'll have a real green full size limo

RX : This one could be F'ed, the market for performance midsize SUV is booming. Idon't know if the 5.0 V8 would fit it, but if so, drop that damn engine in it, work the body to make it more aggressive without making it boy-racerish, and it sould have success.

GX : Drop it, no need to have two big truck based SUV in your line-up, or replace it by a Lexus version of the highlander, in 7 seats config only.

LX : Bring more engines choice, a V6 diesel would be nice and lower the price on par with the MB GL

These are great suggestions. Well done.

Scion needs to drop the XA. Change the XB image or drop it. Redesign the TC. The TC is actually a really really good car for its class and price range. I have driven a friends 5spd a few times and its an all around nice car,its just getting old.And finally add more cars to the lineup.

Lexus is known for reliability, value, and great customer service. The more simple the company is the less problems will arise. More power for their motors will mean greater chance of mechanical problems hence reliability reputation down the drain.

The LS and GS are the best styled cars in the lineup hands down. However there's nothing inspiring about them.

BUILD a Lexus version of the proposed prius coupe, and sell it here in the u.s. ASAP!

a real 2-dr coupe (as opposed to the 4-dr "coupes" some brands are flogging), with the trademark hatchback shrunk down around it will be the ultimate in cool! with efficiency as a bonus!

the original sports cars of the '50s and '60s did not have to compromise fuel efficiency for sportiness. a sporty Lexus/Pruis Coupe may well rewrite the whole sports car formula again! not unlike how the Mazda Miata did.


a while back, did not a special Celica hybrid win a race at Fuji Speedway, beating out ALL other cars by a substantial margin. this included a number of bmws, and porsches!

if toyota could bring down the cost of the supercapacitors it used and offer it in this car, it WOULD upstage the whole current sports car world!

IMO Subayota is catchyer than Toyobaru. Imagine Subayota LFA.

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES

huu76:

"NOT introduce a lower segment car to compete against the 1, B and A3, that's Toyota's job."


AMEN!

bmw and mb USED to worry about 'dilution' of brand prestige. but now it seems increasing sales and profits have overridden that concern, at least in the NA market.

lexus need NOT stoop to that level. nor does it NEED to, when in mechanical sophistication (except in suspensions) and reliability, TOYOTA is fully the equal of all competitors.

The entire business model of Lexus/Mercedes/BMW/Infiniti, of selling very expensive cars to Americans who will lease them, paying with Home Equity lines of credit, is dead.

This entire market is in deep do-do for the next decade. There will be no new V-12s, probably reduced V-8s.

My guess is that the car market for the next decade is going to look much more like the 1960s. More "mid price brands," which will be good for Buick, Lincoln, Acura, and less of the "Look at me brands."

Cars will be a bit smaller, less powerful, but lighter, more fun. BMW, Porsches, and Alfas are all fine with fours, and big sedans are fine with sixes. Add more diesels and hybrids......and that's the future.