2010 Lexus HS250 Hybrid vs. 2010 BMW 335 Diesel: Which Would YOU Choose?

335d no question. I do mostly highway driving anyway.

dont even care about MPG i would take the 335 because of that bullshyt A$$ interior in the lexus who did the interior a 1st grader.

Look how far the front wheel is set back from the front of the car on the lexus!! The driver is practically sitting on it like a bus driver!! Absurd. That lexus is a comically bad looking car. The whole drive train must be hanging off of the front end which makes it act like a lever against steering inputs. That is a scary-bad design.

1. Real life BMW 335d fuel economy is 8.46 l/100km = 27.8 mpg US [1]


2. Real life Lexus HS250h will be the same as for Camry Hybrid (shared drive): 36.6 mpg US [2]


3. Diesel requires 12% more crude oil to make than gasoline (source: DOA). This makes BMW 335d real life fuel economy being 27.8/1.12=24.8 mpg US. By driving the 335d instead of the Lexus hybrid, one makes his/her country 47% MORE DEPENDEND on foreign oil. The BMW 335d itself is then 47% less efficient than the Lexus HS250h.


4. Lexus HS250h goes for 38k USD, the BMW 335d for 50k USD.


5. Camry Hybrid (shared drivetrain) total 5 year costs of ownership are 36k USD [3]. Let's assume they will increase to 40k USD for the Lexus. At the same time, BMW 335d 5-year total costs are predicted at SCARY 57k USD![4].


6. The Lexus goes for 38k, the BMW for 50k, 12k USD of hard earned money more. Then the ownership of the BMW will cost some WHOPPING 17k USD more and the diesel itself will burn 47% more crude oil.


7. The reason behind BMW costing to much to own are the facts that scammers and other diesel marketers carefully conceal - modern diesels are awfully complex, unreliable (due to complexity) and very expensive to repair.

Below is a list of fragile and very pricey to replace parts of a modern diesel that a full hybrid (like the Lexus) does not need to have:
- variable vane turbochargers, two in this case
- ultra high pressure fuel pump for common rail system
- 6 delicate injectors, easy to break by fuel of anything but top quality
- expensive and complex automatic gearbox (Lexus has a fixed set of immovable gears that will last as long as a differential does)
- double mass flywheel with rubber-spring joins (Lexus has a solid flywheel)
- a wearable clutch (Lexus needs no clutch, engine is permanently connected with the gearset)
- a particulate filter (hybrids burn cleanly by design)
- a NOx reductor with AdBlue injection (as above for hybrids)

All those unnecessary complexities make 335d ownership so expensive, especially at higher odometer readings. Still, the diesel is 47% worse in terms of efficiency.


Additionally, by going for power and precision, modern diesels have lost their longevity. At the same time, hybrid Atkinson gasoline engines, experiencing little stress, last very long. Priuses easily do 350k+ miles and more without any engine overhaul (hybrid taxis).


Hybrid batteries prove to last for about 300k+ miles in hybrid taxis.


The Lexus HS250h was also praised for its decent handling [5]. It won't win with a BMW 335d but it has good driving manners. Internet kids writing about appliances need to hit the REFRESH button.


[1] http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/uebersicht/6-BMW/37-3er.html?fueltype=1&constyear_s=2005&constyear_e=2009&power_s=205&power_e=215
[2] http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Toyota&model=Camry%20Hybrid
[3] http://www.edmunds.com/used/2007/toyota/camryhybrid/100701540/cto.html?setz

[3] http://www.edmunds.com/used/2007/toyota/camryhybrid/100701540/cto.html?setzip=10009&vdp=off
[4] http://www.edmunds.com/new/2009/bmw/3series/101125747/cto.html?setzip=10009&vdp=off
[5] http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=152166

downtoearth

Since you used Edmunds as resource lets see how the summerize the respective cars.

The BMW 335d
"So what we have here is a class-leading sedan with plenty of grunt, lots of range and a large price tag. Thing is, if you're shopping in this price range and have an ounce of social responsibility in your soul, then the 2009 BMW 335d is undeniably appealing. There isn't another car that can match its strengths. And it doesn't have many weaknesses."

The Lexus HS250h
"The 2010 Lexus HS 250h is perfectly functional and nothing less. Then again, it's nothing more than that either."

Yeah, thats pretty much game over.

downtoearth, after a cursory glance at some of your "facts" I have to feel sorry for you because you are so full of shit it must be painful! Ouchie for you!

A few of the Lies by downtoearth:

You say the 335d is 50k. No, it is 45k minus eco-credit for a price of 40k.

There are no "variable vane" turbochargers.

The injectors are brutally strong ceramic, far from fragile.

A clutch?

The 335d has a filter and exhaust fluid, so what? The prius/hs has an electic motor and batteries and all of the waste to build and transport them. Take off the rose colored lenses.

Life is too short to spend any more time going over your dubious figures and claims. Like in a court of law, when you catch a witness lying you can throw out everything they say.

Swooosh right in the garbage can with your propaganda lies.

The two cars aren't even in the same class or price range. One is an established sports sedan with diesel offering. The other is a Prius or Corolla with a different shell with a few sound proofing to keep it quiet to hint a bit of luxury. It's close to an IS but far from LS.

I'm surprised that these cars are even being compared. Who here would seriously take the HS over the 3 series?

The same that would purchase a Prius. You are not getting it. The new image isn't as it use to be. To be seen in a vehicle that saves petrol and makes a statement is just as in as the 3 Series if we accept this point or not is mute.

@inspirion:
I think you're right. We live in a world of falacy where, more often than not, vehicles are nothing but means to say "look how much more money I make" or "watch me save the planet".

I hate it when I feel like I have to drive my BMW more passively just so I'm not lumped together with the c*ck that just passed everyone weaving from lane to lane every 2 seconds and I would never own a Prius just so I'm not taken for some treehugger moron, you know, the kind that does 50 in the fast lane, watching their little save-o-meter in the dash.

Maybe I don't get it because I don't care about a badge or making a statement.

Then why the statement. What was the point if it wasn't to make a distinction between the two and pump BMW? You by your own words stated the HS was inferior to the 3 Series by saying how could anyone choose it over the 3 if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong, I don't know.

No, what I meant was that the BMW, to me, is superior to the HS, not because of the statement it makes or its badge, but simply because it is a more appealing car.

A Toyota Avensis or a BMW? Hmm... I will take the BMW E90 335d, thank you very much!

you're funny. keep convincing yourself that anyone in their right mind would take that ugly little toyota over a BMW for 1mpg.

http://www.longolexus.com/ViewSpecials_D

IS for $329/month
ES for $399/month

all over tv, online, newspapers...

60% of all luxury cars are leased.

this is a silly question. one is an appliance. one is a sport sedan.

NOBODY in the world will cross-shop these two cars.

oh mitchell. stop projecting. keep trying to validate yourself by lashing out at others. nobody who actually appreciates driving would buy an HS.

mitchell --- time for bed.

Personally, I could never find myself driving something as embarrassingly unattractive as the HS250, regardless of its (alleged) efficiency. Having seen one 'in the metal', I have no reservations in stating that it is the sing most poorly proportioned, cheap, and awkward looking vehicles I have ever seen from any luxury maker. Lexus, a brand whose luxury credentials have been reaffirmed many times over (since the atrocious ES250) has seriously diluted their reputation with this badge-engineered econo-box - IMO. The 335d has its issues as well, primarily in exterior design and packaging inefficiency, but in this comparison, it wins by a knock out in the 1st round.

that's what a well-equipped 3-series sedan (335d or 335i) costs. and it sells like crazy--far more volume than the much less expensive IS350.

Folks, whether we want to accept it or not, this is the future of the luxury car business; with the Germans firmly entrenched in the Diesel camp and the Asians in the Hybrid. We may see some crossover, but I think very little in the US. For my money, the Diesel technology is the best for a performance car. Enthusiast drivers will all be driving this technology in 5 years with daily commuters who don't care much about cars, driving the Hybrids.

The Lexus looks like a chucklehead car.

Look at me, I'm mister chucklehead in a Lexus !!

lol

I agree with your statement, you are a chucklehead.

too funny...

"Look at me, I'm mister chucklehead..."

yup, you WOULD BE in a car that looks little different from a hynundai in profile. and has that oh, so tired looking kidneys in the nose.

there are few, if ANY, cars as elegant looking as Lexuses in profile. their C-pillar designs are second to none. they don't have to monkey around with "4 door coupes" because their 4 doors are elegant sedans that need NO EXCUSES for being sedans.

even the often dismissed ES is now the MOST BEAUTIFUL sedan in its class. and if you are NOT a boy racer --who has to have a car looking like a kid's car-- WHO CARES if the handling capability is a few hundredths of a points lower!?

Never driven a diesel, I would still choose 335d, since it is so much more fun to drive. Why would you pay extra for a glorified prius with a lexus badge? Yes it's Lexus interior, but with the prius technology. Unfortunately right now diesels still have some stigma from years back, but hopefully it gets better and people start buying them. The lexus will probably do ok, but it's not for me.

Lexus makes decent interiors but the new RX and especially the HS250h cabins can only be described as cheap. The HS250h interior looks and feels like that of a Corolla.

"6. The 335d has significantly greater in-gear passing ability."

it's SO FUNNY that so many so-called 'enthusiasts' who fall all over themselves praising diesels are TOO LAZY TO STIR A GEARBOX!

yeah, diesels are torquemeisters, but that alone does NOT make a vehicle fun to drive.
i have a honda 750 and a kawasaki 250 ninja. i can get by shifting just 1/2 as much with the honda, but the gutsy Kawi with its 15,000 rpm redline is FAR MORE SPORTY and FUN TO DRIVE!

sporty diesels are an oxymoron. i'd even pick an 'appliance' hybrid that at least makes NO PRETENSIONS about sportiness.

335D FTW

LOL Why compare (The Pursuit Of Crap) to (The Ultimate Driving Machine).

It is a choice between a Deutsche/Deusche(BMW/Big Money Waste) and a Turd/Toyota Sandwich (Lexus HS250)I take the Toyota designed by little Ninjas!

How is a rear wheel drive car more practical then a front wheel drive car in the snow? mmmHmmm? Yes its more fun to drive but in the Winter my old BMW 3 Series E46 was as useless as boobies on a bull! And the Deisle version is not available with all wheel drive...JA!
DAS Auto is KAPUT!
"I only care about the Ferrari's"

pennfootball,

"How is a rear wheel drive car more practical then a front wheel drive car in the snow? mmmHmmm?"

- Tires, weight distibution, and gearing are more important than which wheels are being powered, when it comes to driving in the snow.


"its more fun to drive but in the Winter my old BMW 3 Series E46 was as useless as boobies on a bull!"

- And I'll bet that you kept the summer tires on during the winter? What do you expect? You ever heard of Snow Tires? They do work. My 2001 E46 330i was great in the snow when I put on "SNOW TIRES". And I live in NY. So good that (after driving AWD audi for 5 years) that I didn't feel the need for AWD.

Get a clue and get some snow tires. Dont feel bad. There are folks that live their entire life without realizing that Tires are the most important thing when it comes to snow. even more so than the drivetrain.

"You ever heard of Snow Tires? They do work."

yeah, but WHY go to the bother and expense if you DON'T HAVE TO? i've gotten by with all-season tires on front wheel drive cars. until recently, the ONLY snow tires i've needed were for my 2wd/rear drive TRUCK. and i live in alaska!

if i can do this, it seems a waste to me for others in "mild" snow country to go to all the hassle of having 2 sets of tires.

LexSucks You obviously have no clue about anything other than your complete and utter lack of engineering knowledge. I had all season tires yum yum on said P.O.S. BMW! It was a pig in the Snow, and you probably can't afford a BMW so you wouldn't know! Front wheel drives all have more weight over the front tires giving it more traction from their 60/40 weight split. Rear wheel drive cars are better balanced from 54/46 to 50/50 ish and have better handling in dry. In snow they have light rear ends and are not as good. The best in the snow is awd or 4wd. You obviously have to get your head out of BMW's tailpipe!

The Lexus.

For no other reason than to piss off the vocal Euro-only fanboys of Autospies.

So you don't really care about cars, you only care about brand affiliation. Why don't you go on dishwasherspies.com and post hating-filled comments to people that buys Bosch or Miele diswashers instead ?

Bring Mitchell and Hyundaismoke with you

Thanks.

No dude.

I'm making fun of people that care only about the brand or point of origin of their cars.

Call Scooby Doo, and get a clue.

Dude, Toyota/Lexus/hyunday followers are much more hardcore than Euro cars enthousiasts. In fact, a lot of euro car fans have nothing against Asian cars.

I never heard from euro cars enthousiast spudities like "The BMW 320i out-perform the Nissan GT-R in every aspect, but I heard thing like "The IS250 out-performs the 335i" "The SC430 is sportier than a MB SLR" or the "The Hyndai Accen with Leather compete in the near luxury sport sedan market"

You get a clue, Buddy.

So I guess you don't come to autospies that often.

"So I guess you don't come to autospies that often." Answer +1

Yes, I find the reverse case the reality here. Quotes like he just posted above:

"The IS250 out-performs the 335i" "The SC430 is sportier than a MB SLR" or the "The Hyndai Accen with Leather compete in the near luxury sport sedan market"

are often made by village idiots trying to make Japanese car fans look stupid. Kind of sounds like Michael Taylor or Mitchell talking who we all know are trolls.

"are often made by village idiots trying to make Japanese car fans look stupid."

- The Village idiots aren't making them look stupid. They do enough of that on their own.

Says the "Euro-only" fanboy...

Wrong!!

I currently own a Japanese car. It doesn't matter where the car is from. If its Hot, I'll like it.

AMEN BROTHER!

WTF size has to do with price ????

Invisible,

So is paying $100k for a 911 Turbo stupid because the car is smaller than a Civic? Your post makes zero sense.

The supposed Ferrari fan chimes in on the size comment. Hilarious. Are you a Ferrari fan because they are big? They are tiny and weigh almost nothing! And I am not just talking about your matchbox Ferrari.

Once again I default to fun: I take the BMW.

Biggest mistake was badging that car a Lexus.

This is really one of the dumber of dumb Auto Spies questions...335d in a heart beat...IN FACT, I'd easily take a VW Jetta TDI over the Lexus...Diesel RULES!!!!

I'd rather push a BMW than Drive a Toyota.

Would give a new meaning to "i-drive" at least.

One is a bloated corolla and the other one is just overpriced. Can i pick neither

diesels have been around for ONE HUNDRED YEARS and more. makers are scratching the bottom of the barrel to make their noxious, cancer-causing effluents somewhat socially acceptable.

hybrids are barely a decade old. and still on a steep learning curve of development, with potentials still untapped.

hybrids MAY eventually be supplanted with full electric or hydrogen power, but at this stage of automotive science, they ARE the leading edge of propulsion technology.

even mercedes has recognized this, and now offers a hybrid S350.

yes, 100 years of development has made diesels some of the most reliable, most durable, highest mileage cars in existence. and because they generate huge amounts of torque, they're actually fun to drive!

also, remind what kind of fuel hybrids burn? HYDROCARBONS. genius.

you COMPLETELY MISS the point. diesels do have a long history, and ONLY LATELY are they quiet and relatively clean. i say relatively because they still cannot get around the cancer causing PARTICULATE EMISSIONS problem. otoh, with the current rate of development, it is almost impossible to see just HOW ADVANCED hybrids will be in another 90 years.

What the kid posters on this website don't realize is that the Lexus will be a huge seller when it is introduced. The BMW would not be my choice for a fuel efficient daily driver. The diesel factor and reliability concerns of the twin turbo engine, along with a much higher price would make the HS250 a no-brainer for the average person. However, for a summer car, I would take the BMW.

9000 units. woohooo! the auto industry in trembling over this 'volume' seller. this is a tiny niche model for toyota. fortunately, a niche strategy works very well and commmands premium prices--if you produce enough unique models (ala mercedes or bmw).

I'd drive a Tata Nano over a BMW.

BMWs are for simple minded, overzealous punks.

said by someone who's envious of those who drive a BMW. very sour grapes.

what?

WOW, its quite amazing how people will wait for a post that mentions BMW just to come out and bash. For the sake of my post I'll presume that all of you have driven or owned a BMW at some point in your life (highly unlikely) becuase you if you have then you would understand the many reasons as to why its labelled the ultimate driving machine. Not to take anything away from Lexus who has built a solid reputation of Luxury and Reliability, but we are talking two completely different cars, and two completely different concepts of vehicles. The Lexus on one hand is created to give you a smooth drive and ultimate comfort, the BMW is created to give you a sportier drive with luxurious features. So the point is to each's own.

For all the dumb posts regarding a Civic versus a BMW, there is a huge price to be paid for safety. The reason why a Honda is much cheaper, is because they are built cheaper. They last to 150,000 miles but you get hit in one and you'll be dead. I'm sure everybody would agree that your life is worth more than a car lasting 150,000 miles. I might as well enjoy the drive and feel safe if I am going to spend the $$$$.

Everyone needs to settle down and wait for the new 'Tesla' four door. That's the future...I know, I have a roadster and it's so far ahead of these old car's it's a JOKE. Time for BMW to do a Diesel Hybrid and Toyota to do Plug-in Hybrids..period.