Did Obama's Clunker Program Do More Harm Than Good For The US Automakers?

yes

I disagree.

It's all about how the final sales numbers were categorized and added. Many of the most popular cars sales numbers were broken-down by individual trim levels and engine options when considered. If entire model line sales were used the list would look much different.

I think a lot of Fords made the "real" Top 10 sales list.

More harm than good. It should have done more to help the American automakers that really needed the help.

Many "foreign cars" like the #1 selling Camry, made in Kentucky, are built in America.

yea, really. Some of these people think that just because it has a foreign badge means that it is foreign. Many "foreign" cars are more "American" than American Brand cars!!!

And many popular "American cars" like the Escalade, Fusion and PT Cruiser are built in Mexico, while many others like the LaCrosse and Impala are built in Canada. Yeah technically those countries are in America too, but probably not what 009 meant in his usual agenda.

"Many "foreign cars" like the #1 selling Camry, made in Kentucky, are built in America" - Yes they are built in america but Toyota is NOT a US Automaker.

Quiz: Is the Camaro a US car?

Answer: It was designed in Australia and it is manufactured in Canada.

Before there are even "profits" to speak of, all the US workers need to get paid. You know, something we call EMPLOYMENT for the US. And that does no good for the US?

Making cars in Mexico and Canada, on the other hand, means that employment are only generated outside the US and the profits head straight into the pockets of the selected few corporate management riches. Now THAT does good for the US, eh?

If Toyota invests in the US, employs US citizens and pays taxes in the US, they are doing good for the country. Its that simple you idiot!

uaw:

"You the consumer eat the cost of Toyota doing business when you buy the car..."


yup. the SAME as when we the consumers, ate the cost of fat wages and lifetime HEALTH CARE for all D3 employees, to the tune of $1500/car+.

since smart consumers could see they were getting less car, they switched from detroit to import brands. (the loyal but dumb consumers continued to subsidize pensions and health plans many did not themsselves have.)

proud of your union now?

009 again, talking smack on toyota and obama. I guess nothing changes around here we just get articles asking dumb questions instead of atricles with useful information.

Well... the program still helped the domestics a lot, while being "fair" to the foreigners.

"yea, really. Some of these people think that just because it has a foreign badge means that it is foreign. Many "foreign" cars are more "American" than American Brand cars!!!"

Thierry - come on, listen to what you are saying...

Take the Camaro for example.

the gov't failed on this one, like most things they try to run...it was supposed to last until next monday (labor day), 3 billion dollars was spent and only a small portion is being sent back to the dealers.

welcome to 2009 1UAW. $$ spent on US automakers no long only benefit the US. Buy GM cars so they can use the profit (if they make any) and take it to Mexico to build a manufacturing plant. Thats real patriotic ;)

If you understand business when a car is built or designed in the US by Toyota you are paying for the price of thier investment when you by the car/truck and toyota gets that spent money back so just by saying the car built here is creating revenue in the US is inaccurate. The money goes back to a bank in Japan.

Umm, you are probably not going to believe this but because of double taxing, profits of multinational corporations tend not to be repatriated and stay where they were made. In Toyota's case, that would be Toyota North America Holding Company - a US Corporation. Not that there were any profits this year. But 43,000 Toyota NA employees at 5 US plants got paid their salaries along with 1000s more at privately owned US Toyota dealerships.

Just like GM, Ford and Chrysler. There is no car "Nationality" anymore, that is the point.

1uaw:

"Toyota is not giving away money."

NO company gives away money. but toyota has created an AMERICAN business which CHANNELS revenue from ever more happy, satisfied customers to thousands of employees, suppliers, dealers, lot boys, ad agencies, etc. etc. and the revenue stream is sufficient that at the very end, there are profits (except this year) which get reinvested for new and improved products, and distribution to SHAREHOLDERS, of which many are americans too.

the revenue streams at GM and Chrysler obviously DRIED UP before getting to the point of profits to reinvest and distribute.

anyone with a BASIC understanding of economics can see this.

aside from better cars, toyota has also built a better BUSINESS than the D3, benefiting FAR MORE people than just the overpaid execs and union parasites.

"Umm, you are probably not going to believe this but because of double taxing, profits of multinational corporations tend not to be repatriated and stay where they were made. In Toyota's case, that would be Toyota North America Holding Company - a US Corporation. Not that there were any profits this year. But 43,000 Toyota NA employees at 5 US plants got paid their salaries along with 1000s more at privately owned US Toyota dealerships."


WRONG!!!!!

Is Chrysler still an American automaker?

Chrysler is 55% owned by UAW, 10% owned by US, 35% owned by Fiat.

Chrysler IS an American co. Once Ceribus took over. Chrysler is 60% UAW...10% Gov..20% Fiat. Its still a Private Corp.

Well said, really.

Welcome to 2009 buddy! Its almost 2010. Its a different world than the 1950s GM & Ford.

009 - you're so lame, like the rest of you Repubicans. You're taking potshots at the wrong target at the wrong time. All "Clunkers" programs worked, be it the US, Germany, Japan, etc. They worked for their respective car industry. In the US case, the cars sold helped US employees from the mfr, the dealers, part suppliers, worked and earned a salary during the economic crisis, regardless of whether they worked for a Japanese company or a US company. The benefit from the salary earned by these employees far outweigh the benefit of the profit to the company. In addition to the financial benefit, there's also the benefit of getting rid of some old cars that are uneconomical or polluting the environment. So as a general statement, Obama's clunkers program provided a lot of benefit for the "US Car Industry". 009, you're getting more pathetic by the day. First ripping off people's articles and now fishing with a poor bait.

There are hundreds of car dealers across America that should have been paid already, but they're still waiting for Obama to cough up the cash.

I watched one car dealer owner say he sold over 1,000 cars using Obama's cash for clinkers and he has only received 10% of his money from Obama.

I'll tell you, Obama better watch his step or else he's going to be impeached!

Obama is an inexperienced knucklehead.

Look at his mentors, Reverend Wright and terrorist Bill Ayres.

Obama is an old pot & coke head.

Obama is punch drunk on "yes we can" destroy a nation.

Silly, silly me... I read your 1st and 3rd line again, replaced Obama for Bush (W.) and it still sounded true.

Heck, If I change it again to EL34, change your mentors to 009 & 001; same result!!

Good Job EL34!! You got a chuckle out of me.

You're incorrect.

Obama is a misfit and you know it!

I agree with EL34, for once.

lexusrox123, so what does that say about you and your feelings in the matter? If I am typically wrong 99% of the time, how high is my creditability on this subject?

Huu,
In simpler terms for idiots (1UAW) who cannot quite keep up: It doesn't matter if Japan gets some of the money, US is also profiting via taxes Toyota pays (to say the least).

In today's world, 99.9% of all business conducted in the US will profit more than one nation, more than one party. Its just a matter of if the US will benefit or not. Maybe the Cash for Clunkers benefited "Foreign" brands, but it also benefits American makes.

1UAW: Welcome to 2009 buddy.

huu, be sure to check in next month and educate all of us idiots when sales of car does plunge and let us all know how the world has gone off the cliff. See you in October 2009 professor know-it-all.

The bill should have said that the car or truck had to be made in American by American workers. I dont care if it a toyota, as long as it keeps a American worker working.

Please excuse Shempy as it is obvious that it has hate issues...

wow !

we did nuke a country! the only country to EVER get nuked. And the funny part about it is that if it weren't for japan we wouldn't have any of the technology that we have right now. What's funny even more so than that is the fact that German and Japanese technology were far beyond that of the U.S. even back in WWII. Look at today, what TV's do we buy? Japanese and Korean. Samsung LG being Korean, Sony Panasonic Toshiba being japanese. So yeah lets nuke every asian country so they can nuke us back with just as many nukes as we have. Or did you forget that Russia is an 'asian' country? And as far as the clunkers is going, there is talk of a second Clunkers because the anticipated fall in sales. Don't discredit Obama and his administration for things the previous administration caused. Say he does nothing like people are implying and we'd be in a depression folks. Haters will continue to hate, just because they are ignorant and lack understanding, it will continue on. But other's that do realize what is really going on in the world and the things needed to rectify problems, won't be upset at the presidents decisions.

in certain areas (not all), the japanese and germans DID have technologoy superior to ours as far back as WWII.

we won mainly because our superior material resources and manpower enabled us to OUTPRODUCE them, and win all the campaigns determined by which side withstood attrition rates better. many americans let victory go to their heads assuming they were better MEN, not recognizing we merely had MORE weapons and men. quantity vs. quality.

the philosophy has come to bite us in the rear, when others now make better QUALITY while we've been relying on just quantity.