Audi's Aluminium Revolution Starting With The Upcoming A8

I like Audi, so don't get the idea that I'm bashing them, but I recall they've been talking about "lighter" cars for several years now. Using lighter materials, ragtops instead of folding hard-tops, all to save weight. But the hard numbers show that Audis are heavier than their competition, due in no small part of the AWD.

So aren't we just being marketed to? Such as "Audi is lighter than we would be if we didn't try at all" or "Audi is lighter than we used to be"? This would not stop me from buying an Audi, for sure, but I think they will get the public's attention when they really pull off something noteworthy in terms of weight reduction.

I wonder if it would be more cost effective to just make all the cars RWD. FWD are good in the snow, but Audi already has an AWD drivetrain for that... I also realize that their cars are still surprisingly heavy despite their previous award for their special spaceframes. In a way, it looks like they're wasting their time and money.

Steve, the incremental weight penalty of AWD is more than offset with the incremental benefits of Audi's phenomenal AWD system Beware that not all Quattro systems are the same. You need to obtain the version of Quattro found in the A4, A6 and A8 in order to ensure you get the torque sensing center differential. I have been thru some wicked snow storms with an A6 Quattro north of Lake Superior where the authorities closed the road behind me.

kraut:

what is this soul that you talk about?

Considering Audi has never used aluminum for the A4, A6, or other high-volume models this is brand new information.

I agree but since 2004 I have been hearing about the aluminum space frame they need to lose some type of weight anyway with that AWD system they have. but i guess in another 6-8 years when they make the next A8 they will have yet another space age aluminum frame

So far, Audi's hybrid aluminum construction has rather been marketing flatulence and epic failure, rather than revolution.

Audi TT uses such design, with front parts from aluminum, a fact widely covered as revolutionary by various Audi propaganda spewers and similar scammers. How does the reality check look like?

Audi TT 2.0 TFSI - 1384 kg
BMW Z4 2.5 - 1367 kg

Audi TT 3.2 - 1466 kg
Porsche Cayman - 1428 kg

So Audi managed to make their cars more costly to manufacture and repair and yet, they yielded no progress at all as competitors simply do better, despite larger displacement engines which also add weight.

Sources:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/vergleichstest/audi-tt-bmw-z4-mercedes-slk-drei-roadster-im-vergleich-752322.html
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/vergleichstest/audi-tt-gegen-porsche-cayman-deutsche-spurthilfe-751511.html

So an all wheel drive Audi weighs about the same as rear wheel drive competitors. Not bad at all.

An all-wheel drive A8 is lighter than a RWD 750i. And that's the current generation A8 due to be replaced soon. Once the aluminum technology in the A8 trickles down to the A6 and A4, they will also be lighter than their RWD competition.

The most important benefit of aluminum is that it does not rust, even in the case of a home-made paint touch-up on a scratch. Maybe one should start thinking about buying Alcoa shares now.

While there are huge benefits to using Aluminum, the drawback is also the manufacturing and repair cost. If your car gets hit, and the spaceframe bends or gets deformed, the car is almost as good as totaled!

yeah, i love Audi but this is getting a little tired now. i've been hearing about aluminum for quite some time now and frankly, i'm sick of hearing about audi losing weight. i'll still buy an Audi with the weight they have now.

Ok people. It seems most of you are simply talking out of your a$$es with no real knowledge of anything. There are several reasons why the Phd's at Audi like the use of this material and want to expand it's use. First of all, Aluminium is 2.5 times the strengh of steel pound for pound. If you need to make something long and strong, whether it be an aircraft wing, Tractor traler, or a limosine such as the A8L, it is the ideal material and about 30% lighter weight at the same time. Aluminium is also much stiffer than steel and crushes at a slower rate making crumple zones even better thus the cars safer. Fewer injuries in a vehicle's history actually work to LOWER insurance premiums than the other way around. Medical bills can run way higher than the cost of several A8's so safer is cheaper. Aluminium is also a relatively common material found on earth and highly recycleable, another very good reason to use it. The expensive part of constructing a vehicle out of aluminium is the engineering and manufacturing processes that Audi already spent the money on years ago and now already own. You want to construct your car like Audi does? you pay them royalties to use the technology aka:Ferrari. They have worked very hard to lower the costs of manufacturing a vehicle like this and that is why we are seeing an expansion of its use into the lower priced segments of the A6 and A4 models and others. The only better material to build a vehicle out of is Carbon Fiber and select hybrids of that material. Very expensive and hard to work with but can be justified in the high end cars like Lamborghini and Porsche. Like Plasma screens and LCD computer monitors, the more of them you build, the cheaper they get so we are simply seeing the return on a very long term investment made by Audi decades ago. This gives them a huge leg up on the competition as it requires completely different manufacturing tools and processes to build a car this way. It would be a huge investment for the competition to adopt over night. By the time anyone does decide to do it, Audi will have moved on to the next great idea.

I understand what you are saying, but the cost-effectiveness may not be there. It is good to put down an infrastructure to mass produce the spaceframes, but it doesnt neccessarily means it will catch onto the public. Remember HD-DVD? Toshiba swore by it and put money into building an infrastructure around it but it doesnt mean it will be accepted by the industry.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge Audi fan and hope that this technology does succeed in allow them to compete more effectively with competition, or even set the benchmark, but I just don't know if its going to be cost effective for them to do it.

By the way, insurance rates are higher for aluminum frame vehicles. yes they are stronger, stiffer, but that also means when they bend or deform, the tools to reshape and restructure are very expensive and rare and the insurance companies often find it more cost effective to total the vehicle (paying for a new 100K+) car.

Finally an intelligent comment....