Hate To Say We Told You Cash 4 Clunkers Was A Bust BUT...

He could start by starting a trade war with China. That might help our economy. If that doesn't work then back to the old standard "This is G W Bush's fault" and the lemmings will forgive him again.

Have you guys not read anything I've written?

If you think I'm advocating that the Republicans would be doing any better, then you are sadly mistaken.

Democrats AND Republicans BOTH suck.

Government ALWAYS fails.

001

UAW1- How did I get dragged into this? (Not that I shouldn't be)

I will say that 001 is correct it wouldn't matter if either the republicans or the Democrats are in power. The situation would be the same. Anyone with any type of common sense would know that the true effect of an administration are not typically felt until 18 to 24 months after they take over.

So who do you blame? Only those who don't let the market correct itself are to blame.

Of course, because Obama is the messiah. (sarcastic)

Who gives a f%@k if the Russians like us, don't forget how they killed millions of their people, constantly sell weapons to terrorist organizations, and will back Libya or Iran if the decide to act up. Racism, Rep. Waters of Los Angeles from the floor during a session called Bush a "cracker" Jesssie Jackson called Jews "hymes." Liberals in power stay in power because they love to proclaim the bigoted, hateful mindset who have done nothing but keep blacks poor, bigoted, ignorant and in despair so that they, liberals et al, will have a constituency.


There is indeed a double standard. Liberals can make racist jokes without being labeled racist. Liberals can own private jets and still be "green"(Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, Babara Boxster) . Liberals can be exceptionally rich without being accused of being out of touch with the average American. Liberals can cozy up to lobbyists without being thought of as "in their pockets". Liberals can diss America and then take offense at being called unpatriotic. Finally liberals historically give less from their own pockets. Check out what government official gave to charity. You will see a solid pattern there.


Liberals are above the common lot of humanity and are not to be judged by our poor pathetic human standards because they tend to be elitist.


We need to call out liberals and stop playing to their crazy ass games. A liberal kicks, kick him back and call it what it is. A liberal is just as dangerous or more that the Right Wingers in the world. Stop being chicken s&$t and began to say so.

Dum dum 1UAW, the Government doesn't grant those good things to us, the constitution does.

Good point inspiron7.

Republicans will continue to be blind and try to blame the current administration, when all this could have been avoided if the previous administration was not busy starting wars for no reason.

wow the wars is what caused this problem, all I see is this administration blaming everything that walks instead of being proactive and doing things that works and not tossing crap to see if it sticks. This same thing happened when GM had that program that gave the same price as employees. The average transaction saves $3,000 per car. The problem was, after the sales peaked, the showrooms were dead for months. That plan was so bad, GM vowed never to do that again. If the car Czar was wise enough, he would have consulted those that know this because selling cars is what they do for a living. But hay, as Obama said " I won." They know it all but its his problem and our children's debt to pay. All the car for clunkers program turned out to be was a welfare check to the masses. Long term, we will pay about $500 for every $4,500 given out. That's smart huh?

Why not do the right thing with the dealers? They're robbing people with the prices they ask for, why not have the dealers reduce their prices so people would buy them? You ALWAYS win when you do the right thing, when you face the whole truth and just do it!!

This is a naive statement. For one thing, the dealers, except in a statistically marginal situation, don't 'ask' for anything. The price is right on the window and, as we all know, "No one pays list price" Negotiations always go DOWN from the sticker. Yes, yes, I know they sold 18,000 Camaros last year at sticker plus. But, folks, that's a drop in the bucket of a dealer's overhead. The reason they get so much is that demand is far greater than supply and those cases are very few and very far between.

Anyone who understands the way a dealership operates knows that the manufacturer makes a lot more on each car than the dealer does, net profit to net profit. The price a dealer pays is fixed. Every Tom, Dick and Harry that walks into his showroom want to pay his invoice price. I spent 25 years in upper management at a variety of dealerships. I can;t tell you how often I heard, "You'll have to make your profit off someone else."

There's always someone who has a sad story about some dealer that sold them door edge guards for $300. Anyone dealing with a dealer that does business like that deserves to pay that much for door edge guards. There are plenty of good and honest dealers out there that want to take care of their customers and make an honest and hard earned dollar. Let's not dump on them and blame them for trying to clear 3% net at the end of the year. .

a little research by this blog's authors might helpful before spouting off on a political ideological rant. A main reason car sales suck in September is because the C-F-C program was successful in moving large amounts of more fuel efficient vehicles and these vehicles are now in short supply at dealerships. For many buyers, No inventory = no sale. It is clear car makers underestmated the demand for lower-priced and more fuel efficient models and have been caught short.

Has nothing to do with supply, has ALL to do with price and incentive.

001

Strictly referring to the supply comment, I've driven past many an empty dealership lot in the last few days! Places that used to spilling with cars have maybe 1/4 of their usual inventory! I have a dealership manager friend who ran out of 2 of his most popular vehicles immediately after the CFC program began and his replenishment of new inventory will not be in for another month - out of his control. Plus many manufacturers had already lowered their build schedules before the summer, so that affected the supply as well.

This can support your argument - http://www.charlotteobserver.com/136/story/962701.html

The last time I've looked at car lots were FULL of small cars!!! This no inventory crap is just ridiculous!!!

:) no moving inventory maybe :) who wants a small car anyway? (note I am saying want... not need or can only get)

GM's announcement that they are increasing production in several factories is directly linked to the depletion of inventory that C for C contributed to.

Agent 001, why don't you leave your political opinion with the right wing lunatic forums.The more you put up articles like this, the more you expose yourself as an out-of-touch right wing nut job.
If your brain cells are fractionally functional, you might be able to know the reasons behind the CFC program.

Has nothing to do with my OPINION.

Just the facts.

The plan just stole sales that would have happened anyway between Aug. and Nov.

And cost us a fortune in tax dollars to boot.

And your comments have no facts and lead me to believe that you are exposing yourself as a left wing nut job.

Show me FACTS, and I will believe you.

001

001

....which was not only to stimulate car sales, but to get more fuel efficient cars on the road. +1 AdmiralT20

The plan was billed as a stimulus that would kick start the recovery of auto sales.

If it worked as the sold it, September should have been an excellent month and October better, etc.

But what is happening is, Free money sold people and now that it is gone, sales are back in the tank, sliding down.

If I am wrong and in December they report sales are strong with no gov't incentives, I'll be the first to congratulate the admin.

Nothing partisan in my opinion, just grading the program with facts.
001

Well it wouldn't matter if the GOP offered anything knucklehead because they could get pass Nancy Pelosi's broom. They are the minority and the last I check, a minority party NEVER have control over anything. The Dems are in control and that's fine. Lets see how things go. Sit back and watch. Just be patient.

So sad how people on this site are so quick to approve CFC when the facts show otherwise. Clearly DENIAL is not a river in Egypt.

Yes, it boosted sales. Yes, it got some clunkers off the road. Yes, it looked good and made people feel warm and fuzzy. BUT NOW WHAT? Any politician- be it Obama or otherwise who focuses on a short term fix versus long term gain is clearly more concerned with opinions than actual results. Hence an approval rating (as of last Thursday) under 50%.
What any president should do is present a long term plan for auto recovery. Why mess with health care when according to polls (last week) 68% of Americans are happy with health care. Instead lets ask how many people are happy with the cars American companies offer? I guarantee it will be far below 68% yet other than bailing out GM this administration has not focused on America's auto future other than quick term survival. Perhaps they've given up????

Yawn....so now we're assaulting the gov't's healthcare endeavors and quoting poll numbers. The country is divided and polarized now more than ever before. When will people get it (both the right and the left) that posting rhetoric from Glenn Beck, Keith Olberman et al is falling on stony ground. All it does is start flame wars...on a site dedicated to cars. But who am I...I'm not the site administator.

The author is right everytime government steps into the private sector everything seems fine until all the dust settles and it all just turned out to be just a big illusion in which they trick us that one plan is working when really its hurting us in the long run. CFC hurt us bad not to mention we have to pay that $3 billion later. Enjoy your 3 billion dollar cars people i hope you enjoy my money

I never agreed with the wars like most Americans to begin. But just because I wont see that money in a lifetime doesn't mean we should keep adding to a deficit.

This 3billion is added to the trillion dollar bailout. Anyone who complains about President Bush's deficit is a moron because obama has QUADRUPLED the nat'l debt in his first year (not even!) in office! obama has spent more money than all former presidents COMBINED. I guess we'll have fun paying that back, wont we?

I predict Audi will have a record month again since they pre-shipped 2010 models ahead of schedule and have product (Q5) the market wants.

Chrysler will have a crap month, not because of CFC, but because they have crap product (they had a crap August too).

Ford has gotten some product (Taurus) to showrooms too so they should do OK.

GM seems behind in getting 2010s to market in September so they will have a bad month.

VW same, should have done what Audi did.

Toyota's and Hondas are cleared out.

Other than Audi, September will be slow for most manufacturers. Things should pick up in October when 2010s are in the showrooms.

We still have the sales/excise tax deduction.

October will be the tell.

Yes we can
Yes we can
Yes we can
Pass the kool aid!

College has two Ls.

Check it out- if everyone has the same education background, what does a person have to do to differentiate themselves from the masses? Get advanced degrees maybe? Then that's even more expensive. Lowering the cost of higher education isn't the answer- I'm sure this will be an unpopular comment, but hear me out. Too many people want to sit on their asses doing as little as possible to make as much as possible (read that as wanting "white collar jobs")- there are fewer and fewer wanting to "work" for a living! We need people to do the things we keep outsourcing to China and India. What will happen when we wake up one day to see there aren't any farmers left? Or no one to repair all these wonderful cars we all love so dearly? You don't NEED a college degree to be successful in a LOT of careers- yes, you may need other advanced training, I'm not arguing that, but a 4 year degree for everyone will do nothing to help as a generalization.

HyundaiSmoke -

How about you join the military for 4 years to get your education?

Or, you can move to Cuba for all the free Commie benefits.

You could live that good Commie lifestyle.

Cash for clunkers was meant to jump start the car buying again after the economy fell. Nothing more.

It's hard to separate this program from the administration, the ones who came up with it. Some folks have been pretty hard on 001 because of this issue. Whether or not nit accomplished its goals, the fact remains that it may not have been very well thought out as to whether those short term goals were worth the long term impact. Germany and France had similar nightmares during and after their programs. Aside from all the 'political' rhetoric, here are some interesting facts to looks at:

http://autos.aol.com/article/cash-for-clunkers-greenwash

I agree completely. remember when the nut jobs were kickin Bush in the nuts for tapping lines for info in the name of looking for terrorist. Fast forward, this administration has in just 7 months, implemented a snitch line if those opposing this administration and its policies, invasion of privacy to register for the cash for clunkers, registration and spying on those that has a different view point, so those individuals are added to there list of opposition. Amazing. We have a long ride ahead of us. 1985 Big Brother

001 is right on the mark. Cash for Clunkers gave a huge and brief artificial boost to car sales and now the dealerships are dead quiet. Before praising Cash for Clunkers, perhaps people should take a basic Economics class.

Dude most lefties are to high to take out the garbage let alone a class. All they want is from you is to give them your money don't question it, just shut the hell up and they won't protest your house, key your car or attack you at your place of work, because someone has to dog out the capitalist pigs that don't want to give away half their hard earned income.

Um what happened to my tea bagging comments???? They were pretty funny if I may add!!! 001, was I to harsh on you??? Did I hurt your feelings or your ego??? Im sorry. LOL! But you should repost my comments. They were pretty funny.

It doesn't help that dealers seem to think that because they have lower inventories now that they can charger higher prices than before CFC when sales were in the dumps. I've read multiple articles about how NOW is not the time to buy a car due to that. People are listening!

Hey, you can get a loan from Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi's Fanney Mae/ Fraddie Mack. Hell all you have to do is say you are a crack head lefty and you will bet two for one. All you have to do is say you will vote and make up voters and add them, like Mickey Mouse or some name like that. It worked for the Dems and Acorn, it will work for you. Just contact the White House, snitch on your neighbors if they are Right Wing nut jobs, and they will send you loan apts ready for you and your pimp because he is a tax paying executive.

So Hyundaismoke, why for the first time in our history, Germany has a conservative leader? France elected a conservative along with a number of other countries of late including Canada? We have gone socialist and the world has realized it doesn't work. As it has it, Obama's Democrats are holding up this healthcare bill, not Republicans. Presidential polls shows Obama's ratings lower than any president in history at this time. Its not only white American. Living in California, many hispanics I live with regret voting for this socialist direction. I'm Black, and most of my family voted for him and is trippin' as to WTF? So get a reality check. The world is scratching their collective heads and is thinking WTF?

— 1995e34 No liberal media? What do you call left nut jobs like Racheal Maddow of MSNBC or Chris Matthews of the same hate spewing network. Or David Letterman's lap dog interview of Obama was sickening at best.
How about crazed Micheal Moore or Rick Sanchez or Bonnie Erbe of U.S. News and World Report with her venom spitting reports on anything conservative. Why did it take Fox News to break such a MEGA story like ACORN when the info was sent to ALL major networks? And Van Jones, again no one in the main stream media wanted to touch this story until Glen Beck brought it to light.

How About Sam Tanenhaus of New York Times. How about Air America: it can just barely keep its doors open day to day. NPR exist only from money donated and endowments. You can say liberal media here doesn't exist but the reality is it doesn't sell because it stinks. Most really don't like it and its bitter and hate spewing. Check out the ratings of the networks that have liberal leaning anchors. Ratings are always less that average. Why? I thought that most are mid to left leaning. Check out the examples I just mentioned. There is a liberal media here big time and its working every day.

The 30% extreme right as you would say are Christian and possibly Catholics and other faiths because Europe and most of England have no faith. Most don't understand this aspect of our country and frankly we don't care. Muslims live their lives in their environment, non believers in theirs. You wish the other 60% was as moderate as you dream of but its mid to conservative in viewpoint. That is why you are seeing such a revolt daily against this administration and can call it astro turf. Was it astro turf when protesters raised up in protest of the war? Didn't think. The culture war is happening right now that is what you are seeing before your eyes.

The question still stands, why do liberal carry such low ratings? The crap about 25-54 watching Oberman is a farce. Overall ratings are extremely low for liberal shows in general.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/06/03/how-fox-news-defies-ratings-gravity/?icid=sphere_blogsmith_inpage_dailyfinance

In the just-ended May ratings period, Fox once again manhandled the competition, posting big gains in both primetime and full-day while MSNBC stumbled and CNN plunged headlong. Fox's primetime audience in the demographic of adults 25-to-54 (the ratings group that ad buys are based on) was up 30 percent versus May 2008; MSNBC's was down 9 percent, while CNN, which seems increasingly out of step with the cable news audience, tumbled a vertiginous 37 percent.

Certainly that was the case with MSNBC, which rode the crests of Obamamania to new highs last fall, only to settle to earth once campaigning gave way to governing. Even the network's powerhouse, Countdown with Keith Olbermann, was down in May (a 20 percent drop among viewers 25-54), the first time that's happened in almost three years.
What is happening to your "youth of the future" when they are not listening to Keith?

You are referring to entertainment. Information and facts. NPR, Air America, etc, etc etc. Liberalism needs the very existence of capitalism to function. How can you possibly exist without taxing and stealing money from those that make it? Liberals can't afford it that's for damn sure. Too damn stingy.

Let us be clear: Government spending is not charity. It is not a voluntary sacrifice by individuals. No matter how beneficial or humane it might be, no matter how necessary it is for providing public services, it is still the obligatory redistribution of tax revenues. Because government spending is not charity, sanctimonious yard signs do not prove that the bearers are charitable or that their opponents are selfish. (On the contrary, a public attack on the integrity of those who don’t share my beliefs might more legitimately constitute evidence that I am the uncharitable one.)

"The Democrats seem to be basically nicer people, but they have demonstrated time and again that they have the management skills of celery. They're the kind of people who'd stop to help you change a flat, but would somehow manage to set your car on fire. I would be reluctant to entrust them with a Cuisinart, let alone the economy. The Republicans, on the other hand, would know how to fix your tire, but they wouldn't bother to stop because they'd want to be on time for Ugly Pants Night at the country club."

David Barry

i really don't think any of those mentioned are very left leaning in the grand scheme of things. most are fairly centrist. i don't think we should label moderates as left just because the only thing to contrast them to is the far right. i propose using the collective populations of developed nations as a scale to measure political tendencies.

— 1995e34

Then you are in the minority if you think most of the individuals stated are centrist. They themselves have stated they are left of center and your own viewpoint is as well. You can't rename something in your view what it isn't just because you feel as such.

If the media were as liberal as you claim, i think we would see far more support of nationalized health care. furthermore, i think we may not have invaded iraq if the media was even marginally liberal.

Richard Harwood, former assistant managing editor and ombudsman, The Washington Post, Op Ed column, 8 March 1996:

"American journalists--probably a majority--try with varying degrees of success to keep their partisan allegiances out of their work. But the journalist without those allegiances is rare indeed, as every poll and sociological study of the work force has confirmed. In nearly half a century in the news business, I have never known a political writer, for example, who was 'indifferent' to the outcome of a presidential election. And the major newspaper that has no social and community values, values that are expressed in what it chooses to print and not to print, is a very rare institution."

Evan Thomas, Washington bureau chief, Newsweek Magazine, on Inside Washington, 11 May 1996:

Commenting on Speaker Newt Gingrich's charge that the media are biased,, Thomas stated, "This is true. There is liberal bias. About 85 percent of the reporters who cover the White House vote Democratic. They have for a long time. Particularly at the networks, at the lower levels, among the editors and the so-called infrastructure, there is a liberal bias. There is a liberal bias at Newsweek, the magazine I work for."


Bernard Goldberg, CBS News correspondent, The Wall Street Journal, Op Ed piece, 13 February 1986:

"There are lots of reasons fewer people are watching network news, and one of them, I'm more convinced than ever, is that our viewers simply don't trust us. And for good reason.
"The old argument that the networks 5and other 'media elites' have a liberal bias is so blatantly true that it's hardly worth discussing anymore. No, we don't sit around in dark corners and plan strategies on how we're going to slant the news. We don't have to. It comes naturally to most reporters."
The Freedom Forum/Roper Center survey of 139 Washington-based bureau chiefs and congressional correspondents, April 1996.

Question #49: How would you characterize your political orientation?

22 % Liberal
39 % Liberal to Moderate
30 % Moderate
7 % Moderate to Conservative
2 % Conservative
Question #53: Did you vote for Bill Clinton, Georg

— 1995e34 we are not Europe, Japan or "other." The world has always looked to America for whatever and to think we will melt into this one world system is frankly stupid. We can be apart of the world without becoming it. We already have millions on Medical and Medicare. We subsidize medicine and as a country, have gutted Social Security. GUTTED IT. We can't depend on social services, I know, my mother has to depend on Medical and it's a joke. We subsidize her but once we start down that sloop of entitlements, there is no turning back. Do you realize the system Freddy Mae Fanny Mac was corrupted or are you too stubborn to acknowledge that. That was government ran and I don't care it it was Dems or Reps or Tribbles or frickin' Hobbits, it is in bad shape. Municipalities are taking money left and right and not accounting for it. Billions per year. And you want 1/6 of our economy to be turned over to individuals that can't tell you where your money is going? You are dreaming of some Scandinavian Utopia to works for a handful of people that pay out lots of money. Have you notice, they are very, very wealthy.


I heard what you said about Democrats, understand this, I didn't say they were liberal. You just brushed through the information above and won't acknowledge that there are liberals determined to do whatever it takes to get there agenda through. Talking to you is like someone saying "what the Titanic won't sink, its the strongest ship built known to man, impossible," You have not admitted liberals exist but the right wing does. You are one or you refuse to see it very simple. I have friends that are liberal to the core and will acknowledge their own. They are in love with the left in the media and acknowledge it by their world standards, so don't expound to me we us a different system to measure. How do you think that I got to know so much about them? Its from their own mouths.