Is the Average Consumer Confused About What Is Quality And What Is Dependibility?

Most simpletons might think brake dust is the car falling apart therefore JD Power and associates assumes all of us are dumber then cows.

hahaha... a car that doesnt emit brake dust (given it has disc brakes, but not ceramic)... theres something wrong with that...

I love this justification from JD Power:

“In our measure, brake dust is a thing gone wrong,” explained Dave Sargent, vice president of automotive research for J.D. Power and Associates. “The consumers who report this as a problem do believe this is a defect,” he said.

“They clearly consider it to be a quality problem in their definition, which might be different from an engineer's definition,” Sargent added.

“It is weighed the same as engine failure,” by J.D. Power’s dependability study, Sargent acknowledged.

I love the part "In our measure..." This is simply stating an opinion.

My BMW had a boat load of break dust, but I expected it so I didn't view it as a problem because there were never any stopping issues.

As a car guy, I was my car once a week so it was never really noticeable unless it was raining a lot and I didn't wash my car. Metallic brakes will do that.

So in summary, JD Power is like anyone else, a somewhat reliable "opinion". Which is really all quality is a reflection of.

So is the average consumer confused? Of course they are! But that's what marketing and advertising are for :-)

"In my opinion, when I hit the brakes, there's brake dust and thats as big a problem as engine failure. Also the more I drive, the odometer keeps going up, and thats a big dependibility failure too!!!"

JD Power is as helpful for auto buyers as convertible in the artics.

Exactly! I have own very reliable cars that ran great and looked like hell after 4 years. And others that looked great and issues. The key here is balance and sadly a lot of people do not know the difference.

I guess that is the problem, kind of like if the food tastes good it HAS to be good you. Maybe that is why as a nation we are overweight.

JD Power is useless. Even more useless than Consumer Reports. I would never take the advice of a bunch of car dumb people.

The modern automobile is quite dependable no matter who makes it. Blown engines are very rare, the only ones I have seen happen when people modify their cars. A true dependability survey would actually be quite hard to take and require thousands of vehicles, something that you cannot do when there may only be a thousand of a particular vehicle produced. That is where these quality issues can roughly gauge the dependability of a car. If the company took the time to properly duct brake dust away from the wheels and all those other trivial aspects, then chances are it will be more dependable as well.

"A true dependability survey would actually be quite hard to take and require thousands of vehicles..."


exactly. this is why CR is considered the GOLD STANDARD of dependability studies. their annual surveys generally summarize reports on 1.4 million vehicles.

they clearly DEFINE what the owners are to report as problems, the minimum being that it had the vehicle out of normal service, and cost the owner some money (and/or time) to get fixed.

and, CR does actually WEIGH the seriousness of the problems in their overall evaluations.

I still wouldn't use Consumer Reports for any car related buying decision. Toasters? Yes. Cars? No.

They value Cupholders as much as they do performance.

The real issue here is that the "quality" scoring systems provide equal weight to any and all complaints. Clearly, this approach is inadequate to provide an accurate view of the customer.

Agreed

a lemon car usually has nothing to do with a model's overall reliability. Somehow, cars have a soul, and for the lemons, they're just never gonna get better. I think that's pretty cute.

Brake dust a quality issue, how about all the Toyota 4 cylinder problems with oil sludge a few years ago? There was a class action lawsuit against Toyota and the people won! and JD Powers said nothing and now they are reporting on brake dust? Where is there credibility? They have none.

I think they are credible, however they are trying to report an area where there are multiple shades of gray and they have to report it as black and white. You have to remember they do this to make money so it needs definitive.

Agent009, you are right, they have to make money, who owns them and who pays them? They are very biased, the fact that they never reported on engine sludge on Toyotas is criminal, they should be sued by anyone that bought a Toyota with the sludge problem and now they are reporting on brake dust? If you have hub caps and steel wheels (more unsprung weight and longer stops, rougher ride and slower acceleration) you wont get the dust, doesn't make any sense here. How can you defend JD Powers on there lack of reporting on such serious issued? One year the Matrix was recommended and the Vibe was not only tells me that they are biased toward Toyota, the next yesr 2008 they recommended both because everyone knows that it is the same car. Credibility? The only way I could call them credible is if they payed me big $$, Are you on the payroll? Don't answer that,lol

No wonder the Corolla wins a lot of the time. Not a lot of dust coming out of BRAKE DRUMS. ;-)

You won't see a lot of brake dust from a Corolla because it is all trapped between the tiny little holes on the steel wheel and the cheap plastic hub cap.

One thing I can't stand are people who drive nice cars and let the wheels get so dingy. Seriously, get a rag and wipe it down at least. It kills me.

wrong.

i have aftermarket mag wheels on my corolla, and i STILL never see brake dust. just as i never had any with the stock steel wheels.

i did notice, on a recent brake job, they have unique (anti-squeal) spacers i hadn't seen on other disc brakes. maybe they also trap dust, maybe toyota has some other engineering trick. but you DO NOT see brake dust.

a focus i usta have, which had stock aluminum wheels, did spew out unsightly brake dust.

Brake dust???
I've noticed a build up pf a black powdery substance on the quarter panel/bumper cover behind the rear tires on my G8. Wondered if it was brake dust. Last night I took the car out after washing it, did some spirited runs, but went light on the brakes. Black powdery substance re-appeared. Turns out it is rubber from the tires! :) :) :)