Chris Bangle delivers thought provoking speech at LA design conference

"Bangle also issued a challenge to young designers not to go for just what is cool but to understand that exterior design is much more complex that putting something out that is hip but won't stand the test of time."

Why is this moron allowed to speak????? So what does he plan to do design ugly cars so they will always remain ugly?? I'm sorry, but I think he destroyed BMW, at a time where other manufactures are coming to the plate with equally awesome product, it was a huge nono.

Obviously you do not have an eye or even a brain for design. If you did, you would understand what he meant.

Often young designers do not focus on basic aesthetics, such as profile, or balance. They restrict themselves by trying to find favour witha young crowd, where important design features are not a priority.

Instead, we see sketches of cars with massive wheels, un-balanced profiles and graphics that are too fussy, for example tail-light graphics. Having a mass of over-lapping circles, all rimmed in chrome, with different textures etc. will not look good in 30 years time.

The Japanese are guilty of this, where certain elements are 'over-designed', in order to make up, or hide, more important shortcomings in basic design.

Take a look at the rear-light graphic on the 5-series. All the functions are clearly defined, reverse light, indicator, main light. No fussy clear-glass or chrome trimming. The designers did not want to hide the basic car design with flashy detailing. Time will do this decision a huge favour.

You may dislike BMW's Bangle designs, but their refreshing take on standard automobile architecture is something to be savoured and appreciated, it has been a few years since automotive design has been so polarising.

In my opinion, Lexus's L-Finesse is a different take on the Bangle look, and that is a huge compliament to BMW design.

To an extent, automotive architecture has always held a certain flamboyance, noteworthy for discussion is the Citroen DS.

Rules and regulations have put a dampner on such quirkyness today, but can still be found in cars like the new Citroen C6, and the entire Renault range.

A conservative public has not helped BMW, I am sure if they had pulled a similiar move in the 60's, their designs would have become popular icons.

Chris Bangle is a visionary! His design philosophy is being copied over and over again 4 years after he made the bold statement with the 7 series. Why is it that people want cars to stay exactly the same? Those people should buy a Chevy Caprice, have a nice day and leave everyone else alone. I guess those people want cars to just evolve into one car design so everyone will have the same vanilla looking car. I’ve owned a ’02 745Li and it was the best and boldest looking saloon out there at the time. Progressive design, forward thinking, and I still think the best looking in the line-up (well, head to head with the 6).

1. If you can’t operate a mouse, don’t use a computer and don’t buy a BMW (or now, thanks to copying: a Mercedes, an Audi, and many more i-drive clones to come)
2. If you don’t like progressive design, get in a time machine and go back in time. What’s that? There was progressive design in autos since forever! So don’t buy a car.
Most people that can afford these cars can also figure out how to work the electronics. Do you think Mercedes put the “new and improved i-drive” in its flagship S class if the people who are buying the cars did not want it or would not buy it?

In summary, Chris Bangle should be getting royalty checks from these other manufacturers!

"I don't like the X3, but it serves a purpose. He does make designs which both grow on people and last the tests of time"

What are you talking about lasting the test of time??? The new designs are still new, thats like complementing a toddler on having a full head of hair.

Having a mass of over-lapping circles, all "rimmed in chrome, with different textures etc. will not look good in 30 years time."

Who cares what a new car will look like in 30 years??? 5 years is a stretch fore most people buying a BMW. Maybe 30 years from now you will be able to afford a 2005 745???

"2. If you don’t like progressive design, get in a time machine and go back in time. What’s that? There was progressive design in autos since forever! So don’t buy a car."

I do like progressive design, but progressive doesnt qualify it as beautifull. Have you ever stopped and asked yourself why you have been seeing so many more S class's on the road the past 3 years than you ususually have??? Maybe its because people (I know many personally) have ran away from the current 7 design.


I know that BMW's Sales figures have increased since the new designs, but has their market share? All of the top luxury car manufacturers have notice generous increases in sales, thanks to a decent/good economy (depending on where you live). I'd really be interested to find out if market share has increased for them, because I have a funny suspicion that it hasnt.

I am personally glad to see bangle going to a figurehead position, so that BMW can start building cars that look like the design was finished.

BTW "Lfinesse" is based off of Lexus concept cars a prototypes from a couple years ago..

Ok so some people like Chirs' designs....and others don't. All I know is this. He stirred up the auto industry. My gosh, so many cars are so damn boring nowadays and it took a lot of guts from BMW to venture out on a limb. I have to say BMW was about to bore everyone if they came out with another well pressed suit. The last 5 series was looking a bit bland. The one before it (1990-1996) was a looker....then that next one looked as if they melted it in the oven....I would hate to have seen another boring 5 series....Now the new one has a bit of strange surfacing, but it makes it a conversation piece. Now would you want a boring, blend in with your environment vehicle or would you rather have a car that gets everyone talking at your Country Club when you pull up in it? Yeah some people may say "that car is ugly" then throw them the keys and tell em to drive it. Then will think differently after the drive. And I find it funny many new cars oming out have the "oh my god could it be?" the clamshell trunk!!! Look at the new S-Class.....looks like a trunk lid from a 7 series.... Chris has definately etched his name in history books. He shifted BMW and I feel it will boon well for the company in the future... Let time tell.

Why does everyone know chris bangles name?

Do you know the name of the guy who designed the A8, they S class, LS, or the Quatroporte? The general public does not for this simple reason.

None of these cars are hideous. We know bangle because his designs were horrible,

Do you know who designed the last M3, m5, or 7 series?

These cars were universally attractive, and not cars that you had to convince to yourself you liked to the design. Even people who disliked BMW's still admired the design of these cars.

"Yeah some people may say "that car is ugly" then throw them the keys and tell em to drive it"

Nobody in this thread has question bmw's engineering, this thread is all about the design of the recent line-up.

The S class drives well, and the A8 IMO is better than the 7 series. The LS430 is a great car, but designed for more casual driving (which it does well at).

I'm gonna take this on from another angle:

"Bangle also issued a challenge to young designers not to go for just what is cool but to understand that exterior design is much more complex that putting something out that is hip but won't stand the test of time."

There has not been a BMW built in the past 50 years that has not "stood the test of time". Even the bread and butter 3 has stood the test of time in every iteration. The old school early 80's 5 series still looks pretty badass today.

Mercedes is the same way. They've never screwed up a car design. Same can't be said for BMW in the past couple years.

I agree with his statement, but I don't think it applies to his current designs.

"I was under the impression that bangle had quite a bit to do with the last 3 series. Perhaps i'm wrong, i can't really remember.... but i heard somewhere that he had alot of input into it. "

The words Chris Bangle were not known untill he designed the current monstrosities.

Didn't hear much about Bangle until that Ugly Z3 cameout. Most uglist car on road. Good Job, Bangle! New M5 may look outdated but at least it tries to look modern. New Z4 is about ugly as Z3 though. Chris Bangle is an American born guy setout to destroy BMW's image and doing it well so far! oh well.

Didn't hear much about Bangle until that Ugly Z3 cameout. Most uglist car on road. Good Job, Bangle! New M5 may look outdated but at least it tries to look modern. New Z4 is about ugly as Z3 though. Chris Bangle is an American born guy setout to destroy BMW's image and doing it well so far! oh well.

BMW is ahead of its rivals. When BMW began its redesigns with the 7, many of the other car companies sat back to see the outcome; BMW succeeded, and now they're all playing catch-up (look at the number of new cars today reflecting their design philosophy, including those from the mighty Merc. How many BMW cars "imitate" other companys' designs?) Frankly, from the first day I saw the 2007 7er, I knew it was inevitably the way forward. Beautiful and practical designs - strips of chrome and rubber and plastic that were tacked on in the past have been (mostly) replaced by lines and curves made directly on the sheet metal; Matthew makes a good comment about the clean, defined layout of the rear lights.
I also like the interiors: mostly dominated by wide rectangles and strips, but with gently rounded edges so they are not jarring. It gives a sort of "widescreen" effect on the dash. Slightly spartan, which is good for a car made to be driven, not driven in; I tire of the overly round, syrupy ornaments and layouts in car interiors.
I always wondered how so many could dislike the cars and yet they sold well - they are not cheaper than before, nor cheaper than their rivals; quite the opposite. I've come to realize that people do not dislike them as much as web forums will make you believe. Many people actually like them, but those who do not make so much noise about it that it seems they are in greater numbers. If you don't like them, don't buy them; no need for "Bangle should be kicked in the rear!" outbursts.
BMW was the bestselling luxury manufacturer for 2005; considering that exterior design has been their biggest change in recent years, that's saying something about it.

In my preceding post, I mentioned "2007 7er" when I (obviously) meant "2002 7er" :)

"Didn't hear much about Bangle until that Ugly Z3 cameout. Most uglist car on road. Good Job, Bangle!"

The z3 looked nice while now being dated, looks much better than the z4.

Quandt family hired him for BMW to breakaway from traditional designing which caused quite a stir and I really don't care.
Seen quite a few 5-series while I was in San Jose, CA. last month. I really liked the shark eye headlamp design which wraps around each front end corners and size of the car itself.
BMW z4 on the otherhand was probably the beginning of Chris Mango's reputation as "monstrosities" and I have to agree.

(((((Chris Bangle is the man, just face it, I guarantee if american car companies followed suit, they wouldnt be having the issues they do know)))))

Chris Mango isn't a fruit, however this statement is very fruity:)

Quandt family hired him for BMW to breakaway from traditional designing which caused quite a stir and I really don't care.
Seen quite a few 5-series while I was in San Jose, CA. last month. I really liked the shark eye headlamp design which wraps around each front end corners and size of the car itself.
BMW z4 on the otherhand was probably the beginning of Chris Mango's reputation as "monstrosities" and I have to agree.

(((((Chris Bangle is the man, just face it, I guarantee if american car companies followed suit, they wouldnt be having the issues they do know)))))

Chris Mango isn't a fruit, however this statement is very fruity:)

Poets are those who muddy their waters to make them appear deep. Mr. Bangle is a poet who waxes eloquent about BMW's controversial designs. He speaks elegantly about why BMW's style truly *is* beautiful, even though it does not *appear* to be (see "1984", George Orwell).

The "Flame Surface" styling language (that's fancy talk for the new fashion trend that BMW is trying to get off the ground), first seen with the current 7-series, has shown us that it is anything but the right direction. Even BMW is slowly backing off the true essence of Flame Surface (all the while trying to save face) by fixing what traditional designers identified as sore spots in the original car (e.g., Dame Edna headlights, mismatched bustle-butt trunk, trunk lights that look like they came from a different car than the adjacent tail lights, etc). The current 3-series, hailed as being the best looking current BMW (that's sort of like being the least ugly pig), can be praised for having the least "Flame Surface" styling in it.

BMW isn't stupid. They'll eventually find their way again. But mark my words: One or two decades down the road, you will not find today's BMWs in the glossy-paged book of Classic Auto Styles.


Your Zen Koan for Today:

Which is the better condition? One in which 80% of people feel your cars are beautiful and only 5% buy one, or one in which 80% feel your cars are ugly and yet 7% buy them?

Poets are those who muddy their waters to make them appear deep. Mr. Bangle is a poet who waxes eloquent about BMW's controversial designs. He speaks elegantly about why BMW's style truly *is* beautiful, even though it does not *appear* to be (see "1984", George Orwell).

The "Flame Surface" styling language (that's fancy talk for the new fashion trend that BMW is trying to get off the ground), first seen with the current 7-series, has shown us that it is anything but the right direction. Even BMW is slowly backing off the true essence of Flame Surface (all the while trying to save face) by fixing what traditional designers identified as sore spots in the original car (e.g., Dame Edna headlights, mismatched bustle-butt trunk, trunk lights that look like they came from a different car than the adjacent tail lights, etc). The current 3-series, hailed as being the best looking current BMW (that's sort of like being the least ugly pig), can be praised for having the least "Flame Surface" styling in it.

BMW isn't stupid. They'll eventually find their way again. But mark my words: One or two decades down the road, you will not find today's BMWs in the glossy-paged book of Classic Auto Styles.


Your Zen Koan for Today:

Which is the better condition? One in which 80% of people feel your cars are beautiful and only 5% buy one, or one in which 80% feel your cars are ugly and yet 7% buy them?

Ask yourself, why would a German *Quandt family hire an American Car designer? Its really simple.
#1. Quandt family understand that American market has more potential for just about everything leads to a logical decision to hire an American designer that would suit to American buyer's taste.
#2. Chris Mango's design publicity with overblown population/controversy is swaying public concerns from reliability issue to styling issue. From bad to good. A prudent and excellent Public relations propaganda.
#3. Issue with reliability on BMW still lingers from world's biggest BMW BASHERS which are J.D. powers to Consumer Reports magazines. If, I was BMW, I'ld have done same. Promote styling with an American Chris Mango making public unaware of unreliability monstraties - instead make public more focus on styling.
#4. Negative outcome of this is simple "Chris Mango" is now well known fella..say goodbye to "Mysticism of BMW".

Ask yourself, why would a German *Quandt family hire an American Car designer? Its really simple.
#1. Quandt family understand that American market has more potential for just about everything leads to a logical decision to hire an American designer that would suit to American buyer's taste.
#2. Chris Mango's design publicity with overblown population/controversy is swaying public concerns from reliability issue to styling issue. From bad to good. A prudent and excellent Public relations propaganda.
#3. Issue with reliability on BMW still lingers from world's biggest BMW BASHERS which are J.D. powers to Consumer Reports magazines. If, I was BMW, I'ld have done same. Promote styling with an American Chris Mango making public unaware of unreliability monstraties - instead make public more focus on styling.
#4. Negative outcome of this is simple "Chris Mango" is now well known fella..say goodbye to "Mysticism of BMW".

I notice you put Mr.Mango in bad designer category because of his "Ego" you claim.
Before you slip into something more comfortable...like a coma, I say you are wrong, sir.

Mr.Charlie, have you seen the awesome sharkeye design of the M5? The way it wraps each corners with the look of poise and authority? Take a look at BMW's rear deck design? Many designers envy. Yes, that even includes Lexus's new Fitness designs. Have you ever seen M5 up close, sir? Many complains about it..but you know what Mr.Charlie..its because they don't know a jack or two about auto-designs. BMW's controversial design connects me 100%. Its controversial, challenging, egocentric somewhat, different, powerful emotion of sculptural traits and more. I can connect my feelings with this car's design as I approach it everytime. Can you say Mr.Charlie samething about your Acura or Infiniti? Mostlikely not because it lacks something. Possibly an "ego"

case closed.

I notice you put Mr.Mango in bad designer category because of his "Ego" you claim.
Before you slip into something more comfortable...like a coma, I say you are wrong, sir.

Mr.Charlie, have you seen the awesome sharkeye design of the M5? The way it wraps each corners with the look of poise and authority? Take a look at BMW's rear deck design? Many designers envy. Yes, that even includes Lexus's new Fitness designs. Have you ever seen M5 up close, sir? Many complains about it..but you know what Mr.Charlie..its because they don't know a jack or two about auto-designs. BMW's controversial design connects me 100%. Its controversial, challenging, egocentric somewhat, different, powerful emotion of sculptural traits and more. I can connect my feelings with this car's design as I approach it everytime. Can you say Mr.Charlie samething about your Acura or Infiniti? Mostlikely not because it lacks something. Possibly an "ego"

case closed.

I notice you put Mr.Mango in bad designer category because of his "Ego" you claim.
Before you slip into something more comfortable...like a coma, I say you are wrong, sir.

Mr.Charlie, have you seen the awesome sharkeye design of the M5? The way it wraps each corners with the look of poise and authority? Take a look at BMW's rear deck design? Many designers envy. Yes, that even includes Lexus's new Fitness designs. Have you ever seen M5 up close, sir? Many complains about it..but you know what Mr.Charlie..its because they don't know a jack or two about auto-designs. BMW's controversial design connects me 100%. Its controversial, challenging, egocentric somewhat, different, powerful emotion of sculptural traits and more. I can connect my feelings with this car's design as I approach it everytime. Can you say Mr.Charlie samething about your Acura or Infiniti? Mostlikely not because it lacks something. Possibly an "ego"

case closed.

I notice you put Mr.Mango in bad designer category because of his "Ego" you claim.
Before you slip into something more comfortable...like a coma, I say you are wrong, sir.

Mr.Charlie, have you seen the awesome sharkeye design of the M5? The way it wraps each corners with the look of poise and authority? Take a look at BMW's rear deck design? Many designers envy. Yes, that even includes Lexus's new Fitness designs. Have you ever seen M5 up close, sir? Many complains about it..but you know what Mr.Charlie..its because they don't know a jack or two about auto-designs. BMW's controversial design connects me 100%. Its controversial, challenging, egocentric somewhat, different, powerful emotion of sculptural traits and more. I can connect my feelings with this car's design as I approach it everytime. Can you say Mr.Charlie samething about your Acura or Infiniti? Mostlikely not because it lacks something. Possibly an "ego"

case closed.

Lest we forget, Chris Bangle is also the brains behind the wildly successful 2003-2005 Range Rover and the wildly successful current Rolls Royce Phantom. I think that both these cars in addition to the 7-series are a testament to the genius of the man.
I drive an '05 RR and everytime I look at it from my bedroom window, I am simply amazed at its beauty and elegance.

Bangle is also responsible for the radical new Mini. Sheer genius.