Would YOU Buy This Over A 5-Series? Toyota Thinks So...

They still have not successfully taken out the three series!

It's not the first thing Toyota thought they can upmarket their cars. The Toyota Crown looked like a Rolls Royce before and Lexus marks claim the LS is a true Bentley and Rolls Royce competitor when the interior was obviously 'borrowed' off of the Maybach line. The high end Toyota models aren't half bad but it's a bold statement to say they can outs the 5 series, something the Lexus GS have yet to do on many points.

maybe if they replace the ES with this it may have a chance but the 5 series is the one to beat. toyota can have a chance at BMW(as everyone else is) but this dont seem like the car just because its RWD. needs more than that what about the suspension, brakes, interior...etc...etc

To Kapaxx: The 5 is an easier target.

How many versions of the camry can these guys make?!?!? You should make a sister site for cars like these and you could call it TurdSpies.com.

NPus-
so this is just another camry variant to you? so tell us what camry EVER had rwd. and a 200 hp standard engine with 314 optional?

Hyundai just called they want their gameplan back. Isn't this the Toyota Genisis Sedan? Compete with BMW never with an X for a badge.

Yeah I agree 1995e34 or atleast the ES350/250. This would make for a nice Camry/ES replacement.

I wouldn't buy either they are both FUGLY

If the end result is a truly great car and you don't care to impress others for no reason, then a person might choose the Toyota.

BMW never will be as Toyota.....and a Toyota never will be a BMW..however...People now is looking for economy and reliability...And in that case Toyota is the clear winner. Still I prefer the 5 series, it is not logic but the heart, some times have reasons that the mind do not understand....I prefer MB over BMW, casue BMW will never be as MB on the Road, where I use to be.

No, I would not consider this over the 5-series or even the GS.

BMW people are very loyal and it will be difficult for Toyota to get them to buy that car just because it's rear wheel drive and has enough hp.

SOME bmw owners are very loyal.

the SMART ONES get tired of the HIGH MAINTENANCE/REPAIR costs and maintain 'loyalty' only if they afford to trade every 5 years; otherwise they're wont to COMPLAIN about the costs and jump ship.

Well where does this leave the GS. I truly like the GS line, but I think it has such a stigma attached to it here in the States as a niche vehicle that wanted to be a Euro competitor, most just overlook it and go right to the LS. Face it, the LS has never been seen as sporty as a S class or 7 Series, so why see the GS as a direct competitor to the 5 ( and it is for the most part) Rather than focused on the GS, the ES and IS has made more in roads, while the GS sits there, the middle child. That said, Lexus should re-focus on the GS and not muddy the water even more with this new X model. This will become a Lexus model non the less. So it will push the GS further into obscurity.

Lexus doesn't have the some focus as MB or BMW with product and pricing in the middle segment. For example, the GS 350 starts at $45K. ES $35K and the HS between $36-42K. The new X model will come in where? See the point. When considering a GS model, a Lexus customer is thinking why purchase it for $45K and is lesser know model in the product line. You really have to want the GS to get one. It seems like the GS days are numbered. When was the last time you spotted a comparison with any other make and the GS?

If this X-model is produced, Toyota has no plans to market it in North America. The GS however, will have a new model for 2011. Lexus has no intentions of letting this model languish.

Point taken, glad to see Lexus will try to focus on the GS. Now as far as the X model is concerned, who would pay for a Camry/ES look alike that is a size larger?

"who would pay for a Camry/ES look alike that is a size larger? "

why not? for years, until more shades of ugliness differentiated the models, people were fully willing to consider ALL bmw models which were just "the same sausage, different lengths!"

And this can be distinguished from the hoary Avalon... how?

Cause it have other name?

i wonder who said it would compete with the 5 series? Did Autocar say that or did Toyota? I doubt Toyota said this was their 5 series competitor when it's not the Lexus GS. Which is DIRECTLY aimed at the 5 series. Sure it's a good shot, it might not be the sportiest thing on the planet but it doesn't need to be. Not everyone goes autocrossing in their 50K+ luxury sedan. Were not all Tanner Foust so we don't need to drift for a living. Some people actually want luxury dependability resale value and creature comforts. Which is what Lexus strives to be the best at, and they are. No one said Lexus is targetting BMW's sportiness nor is this new Toyota. People (auto journalists) just do that BMW benchmark standard because they are motorsport biast. Base the car off something besides it's sportiness and the Lexus's and Toyota's would be right there at the top of the list.

AutoCar.

The BMW has more HP and almost definitely handles better than the Toyota, the Toyota is no longer considered reliable, so we could assume they are comparable in reliability, now for people concerned about looks, this Toyota is UGLY, the BMW looks great, So the toy isn't as sporty or as attractive, what was the question again? lol Was that supposed to be a hard question?

"the Toyota is no longer considered reliable, so we could assume they are comparable in reliability"

You are joking right? Don't bother trying to Compare any BMW reliability to that of Toyota.
is

Have you been keeping track of how unreliable Toyota's have been for the last five years or so? Consumer reports used to rubber stamp "reliable" in previous years, now they are not always stamped reliable, not my opinion, that is reality, most of my vehicles have been Toyota, so it is not like I hate them or anything, I am just being a realist when I say that the reliability is probably comparable.BMW is not that bad is it? Its not a Ferrari or anything,
(if you didn't know they have a reputation for being very un-reliable)
After studying the car for a while I came to a conclusion that the grill is the reason it is so boring and un sporty.

Toyota has been building versions of this car, the Mark X (previously called the Mark II and in some versions and markets, the Cresta and Cressida) for years. In fact, this is a very mild facelift at best because it doesn't look much different from the ones I see driving around Jamaica right now. It has always been a rear drive sedan with 6 cylinder engines (sometime I4s as well), geared towards the luxury side of the equation, so nothing new there. Calling it a 5 Series competitor isn't really true. I suppose if you have that kind of money you may want to look at EVERYTHING that money can get you, but for all intents and purposes it won't bother BMW one bit. Different type of customers all together.

Agent63
"Lexus marks claim the LS is a true Bentley and Rolls Royce competitor"

could you please give a link where toyota claimed this.

Btw Toyota Mark X, Mark II, Crown..etc have always been JDM only.
I have driven current and some old Mark models both coupes and sedans (Imported)and they were nice sporty, spacious and value for money cars.
They are also very reliable and great for tuning. Most people who like other JDM models like R33 and R34 GT-R, Honda S2000...etc also like Mark models. The have very unique appeal. Markets and customers of regions where these cars don't sell won't understand it.

JUGNU

it is actually the toyota CENTURY which competes against the rolls and bentley.

and ONE UPS the rolls by having a v12 instead of mere v8.

Yawn!!

Wake me up when Toyota builds a desirable car.

Yawn!!!

Wake me up when Toyboata wins a F1 race.

yawn... wake me when someone manages to BUMP toyota OR lexus out of their #1 positions in reliability, and sales in the u.s.

Wake me up when Lexus is a Success outside of the U.S.

lol another ES variant.. or is it a Camry variant?

LOLOLOLOL.

Easy: Nope.

Btw: Are the floormats in this camryversion 21.9-reloaded now glued to the carpet?

@HyundaiSmoke

For you and the other idiots it has nothing to do with the ES350. If you could read then you would know that the mark X is RWD!

it occurs to me, all the references to "camry look alike" or "camry derivative" only emphasizes HOW ELEGANT and LEXUS LIKE the camry really is.

even going back two generations, the camry has always featured the BEST LOOKING PROFILE not only in its class, but among ALL mid size sedans. mainly due to the sleek, elegant C-pillar. that C-pillar design is also common to most Lexus models.

and it has even been copied by Cadillac.

the profile of camrys with that sleek pillar make them look more upscale than ANY competing mid-size, even on OLDER camrys (vs. equal age competition).

it's only when you compare the front and rear views that the BIG differences are seen between camrys and lexuses.

so, EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT, lexus/toyota haters!

camry is the best selling sedan in the country in part BECAUSE it looks like a lexus.

and the owners of REAL lexi don't mind, because they know while their own vehicles are related to 'lowly toyotas,' said toyotas ALSO happen to have the BEST REPUTATION on the planet for workmanship and reliability. their cars have more lux features. AND the toyota rep which even the snooty euro models DO NOT have.

"the profile of camrys with that sleek pillar make them look more upscale than ANY competing mid-size, even on OLDER camrys (vs. equal age competition)."

and the competing mid-sizers, INCLUDE buicks, BMWs, and audis. the current generation of camry's are more comparable to benzes, with the toyota logo placement comparable to the tri-star which adorns m-b hoods. it even STANDS OUT MORE, with body color rather than plain air highlighting the chrome logo.

strictly from a design, stylistic view, i'd say both this Mark X AND the CAMRY are comparable to the best in the class.

there are dynamic differences, but unlike buyers or 3ers and civics, most mid-size family car owners don't really CARE MUCH about it. STYLE, COMFORT, RELIABILITY, decent power and value for the money are bigger considerations.

X-Saloon? So would this be an ES saloon or a GS saloon or slated in the middle somewhere as it shares similar features with both?

And how can they look at the 5 series seriously when the IS still falls short of the 3 or even the C-class.

Uhh...no. I'd still pick the Bimmer.

Most of us here are judging this based solely off of its looks, which is fine, but I'd rather wait for more tactile observations of the car. Maybe this car is more luxurious and sportier than the 5-Series (and subsequent GS and ES)?