In Your Mind Is Audi On Track To Replace BMW As The Ultimate Driving Machine?

Yes!

so I guess in YOUR world and I quote "Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Porsche are the only companies that make sports cars you need to wake up from that nightmare because you are sad and you need to become a TRUE enthusiast yourself. a "TRUE" enthusiast will drive pretty much anything with wheels and an engine they dont subject themselves to 4 car manufacturers and then call themselves a "TRUE" enthusiast

Not for the next 3-4 years.. let them first get all their FWD cars to RWD and then think about getting near ultimate..

Audi has put out some great products recently (R8 and RS4 come to mind immediately). But I still don't like how Audi's FWD platform roots still show through with their cars having too much weight over their front axles. Balance (50/50) is really important, in my opinion, to being an ultimate driving machine. Take the 2010 S4 for example. It has received race reviews thus far. However, the VW/Audi engineers couldn't do better than a 56/44 weight distribution?

Source: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=158806/pageId=181362

So you're saying the specs are more important to you than how the car drives? If the car gets rave reviews, then it deserves credit regardless of what the weight distribution is. The front-biased weight distribution of the quattro drivetrain pays huge dividends in real world driving where roads can be wet and less than perfect.

No. another flame war title. WTF? This article is old. I swear that we just discussed it about a month ago.

NO, but they are trying... Keeping BMW on their toes

HEAR HEAR!

And this is very good... stops BMW from resting on their laurels, because let's face it, Audi is the most serious and consistent competitor to BMW.
whether in my mind this is going to happen, i don't really care. even though i prefer BMW, may the best win; and if at some point audi does cars that are as good or better than BMW, then i will consider both before buying any, and consider myself one lucky buyer for having that much more choice!
now knowing who BMW is, i can at least say that it's going to be a big challenge for Audi, so let the war rage on!

I am not going to even start an argument with this this article I can see will bring drama.....but BMW and Audi are make cars that are built with safety and sportiness in mind and they are 2 great german companies. I do like Audis but I love BMW's especially with the reputation they have with the inline 6 cylinder engine...this engine won more awards than Michael Jackson at the grammys. In my opinion i like the way BMW goes outside the box with their design, technoloy and engineering they put into their cars. I think these 2 companies will always be the biggest rivals between each other.

I'd say they're just about on the same plateau.

BMW has the reputation and Audi is very actively going at them which in turn great for us the consumers because they are both putting up strong products. It's just a matter of taste which way one would go.

IMHO

I'd take the...
A8/S8 over the 7 series
535/550 > A6/S6
S5 > 650
A4/S4 > 3 series (only because the 3 series is too common)
1 series > TT
RS6 > M5
M3 > RS4
Nothing BMW makes touches the R8 and I like like the Z4 alot...

So for me both companies are a wash.

BMW is the ultimate Driving machine because they make awsome cars, and motorcycles which are the purest, and most exilerating ways to carve up a road

"Nothing BMW makes touches the R8 "

What about the BMW S1000RR superbike, that would rape the R8.

193hp 450lb weight, seats two, $14,000...sounds like a steal.

Audi is doing great..still, I do not see them as the main but definitely they are in the same league as BMW and MB right now. The time whe Audi was a unreliable and bad quality product is over. In fact in the interiors they are the same as BMW and better in some designs...but BMW is not sleeping.

Funny how Audi is always referred to as the VW/Audi ... and not the Lamborghini/Audi as in the V10 engines and R8 sports car, or Porsche/Audi Q7 as in the eng and tech developed jointly by both.

Is that all that BMW fans have to say? There is more "worth" in joint and shared technologies because you can take the strengths from each and develop something better. The only thing great about BMW is their marketing. Their technology has limitations since it is based on RWD model, which by definition provides considerably LESS traction than AWD. A BMW is an overhyped good car, wich has shown more weakness than its competition during hard economic times, clearly revealing that their customer base is more affected by it. Comparatively speaking, this means that more BMW owners overextend to buy/lease their cars.

At the end of the day whichever OEM can gather more traction and control it will be able to offer the best driving experience.

So what is Audi's weakness (although I think they have done a great job of improving it with the recent A4/A5)? the additional weight of the AWD system. However, as the leader in light materials and ASF design they are on their way of significantly reducing this adverse effect.

These arguments are getting old. The "independent company" hype BMW has been pushing lately is coming back to haunt them. It does not make economic sense in this day and age.

And the line about Audis being unreliable is flat out unfounded. Look at any recent surveys and you'll see that Audis are as reliable if not more reliable than BMWs.

Totally agree StarSearch. My B6 S4 definitely has a better interior than the new one. That along with a V8 makes means I'm staying put. However like the article mentioned it is still a better interior than the 335i (albeit more expensive). Audi will have its hands full though when the new 3er comes out in 2012...

Everyone is going with smaller and cheaper cars due to the downturn in the economy so it is not surprising to see this from the smaller sized luxury cars. It also seems that they are moving more resources to develop smaller cars rather than refreshing larger and expensive models.

As far as being the best of the german cars, yes. However, the ultimate driving machine is neither of the two.

Yes, Audi is obviously on track to replace BMW as the Ultimate Driving Machine.

The 2010 Audi S4 has NEVER lost to the BMW 335i in ANY comparison test performed, that includes both European and U.S. magazine tests.

The Audi R8 has routinely defeated the iconic Porsche 911 in all different variants including the Carrera, C4S, and Turbo models and BMW's finest ///M offerings such as the M3, M5, and M6 can't match the R8's brilliance.

Furthermore, when talking in terms of sustainability and managing your sales during a recession, and staying profitable, Audi is the CLEAR winner.

Audi has been gaining ground in the sales race at an alarming rate. Last year Audi was the only company out of the German trio, which also includes BMW and Mercedes-Benz, to post a global sales increase. BMW's global sales fell 5.8%, MB global sales fell 5.1%, but Audi posted a 4.1% global sales INCREASE.

Look at the 2009 sales figures and the story is the same. Audi has managed only a 7.5% global sales decline through the first 9 months of 2009 whereas BMW's global sales have fallen 16.2% and Mercedes-Benz's global sales have also fallen 16%.

Let's look at profitability. Audi's 2008 profit rose 30% to $2.82 billion. BMW's profitability fell 90% to 300 million and Daimler barely remained profitable.

If we look at 2009, BMW is unsure whether it will be able to make ANY PROFIT AT ALL FOR THE YEAR, let alone a multi-billion dollar profit.

Daimler could very likely post a loss for the year considering through the first two quarters of 2009 it saw $1 billion+ losses.

Audi is on track to make a $1.5 billion + profit.

This translates into Audi having more money to work with than BMW and Mercedse-Benz. Audi can use that extra money to invest in technological advancements to improve the handling of its cars such as the S-tronic, ADS, and Sport Differential systems which have been the EXACT reason for the S4's ass-kicking of the 335i in every single comparison test.

Not only will Audi replace BMW as the Ultimate Driving Machine, but Audi will also replace BMW as the world's best selling premium brand due to the following reasons:

1) Audi has managed its sales SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than either BMW or Mercedes-Benz within the last two years.

2) Audi has economies of scales due to being owned by Volkswagen Auto Group that allows it to enjoy MUCH more profitability than either BMW or Mercedes-Benz since it can share transmissions, parts, platforms, etc. with other VAG brands including Porsche, Bentley, Bugatti, and Volkswagen.

3) Audi is WAY ahead in the growing Chinese market, which many auto analysts believe will be the key to the future sales rebound of luxury car manufacturers GLOBALLY.

4) Audi has overtaken BMW and Mercedes-Benz in the European auto market, which represents a significant percentage of global sales for all three German luxury auto manufacturers.

4) Audi can invest in advanced technologies such as Sport Differential and

I dig your argument...

But I don't get what it has to do with being the Ulimate Driving Machine?

My arguement is that Audi's larger profit than BMW and Mercedes-Benz will allow Audi to invest more money in Research & Development, which will thereby allow Audi to create advanced technologies such as the ADS System and Sport Differential. It wil be these EXACT systems that allow Audi's sport-minded cars such as the S4 to defeat some of BMW's finest offerings such as the 335i.

Also, Audi's larger profit will allow it to continue to make cars such as the R8 which is so dynamically brilliant that it defeats even the most iconic sports cars in the history of the automotive world such as Porsche's 911 variants or BMW's M3.

no

GermanNut : Solid Argument....BMW is good but they are doing some bad investments (X6, 5GTs) and they cancell the CS which could be a good match for the CLS or A7. But no go. Time is always the best answer.

According to recent news
The CS concept is most likely coming back on.
And the same for CSL/GT version of M3
I think BMW had to cancel all these project due to financial purposes since its an individual company unlike Audi which shares a lot with VWs.
But I do think Audi is doing very great! the new S4 is very impressive! But BMW is not resting either, they are still improving on their weaknesses (interior quality and ride quality etc...) and the new X5M and X6M are pretty insane as well.

No effing way..

i am not the biggest bmw fan but i got to give proper respect where it is due. in the average consumer luxury car segment nothing touches the handling of a bmw. in the same segment, nothing touches the luxury that mb puts down. and as for audi, they try to mix the best of both worlds.

me being an enthusiast, i just have to love all for what they do and say that they all do a good damn job of making cars that we as consumers and enthusiasts love.

Well, they've got the looks down pat (the one thing BMW is struggling with by, IMO, just trying to redesign for the sake of something new and not necessarily something better).

Performance and handling are the aspects where BMW dusts them off. To truly become a top player, Audi will need to, among other things:

- Become RWD (with AWD option of course)
- Reduce front overhang, which should happen with RWD
- Increase axis-to-dash ratio, which should happen with RWD and reduced front overhang
- Perhaps longer hoods on some models, especially the bigger sedans. Their cars are long in the passenger area, the more reason it looks weird to have such short hoods. But maybe it's the amount of the hood that sits in front of the axis that gives the short hood impression

Of course, I know this is more than just moving and extending parts; but these points do have a positive effect on factors like balance and weight distribution and consequently handling, and you'll notice they are the norm with BMW and Mercedes.

No how, no way. Everything from them that Ive driven left me cold, whereas every BMW Ive driven made me want to drive like a maniac. That in itself is pretty telling; if a company's cars dont make you want to drive hard, how can they be considered serious driving machines.

Yes.
In two years all will agree.
Audi is scheduled to release a new A1, R4, A6, A8 within the next 2 years.
Add those to an already hot line up of A4, A3, TT, Q5,Q7, and R8 and you will have the all around best car company in the world.

No. Audi will not replace BMW as the ultimate driving machine. Nose Heavy, FWD Based cars will not do it. Until Audi does RWD they will always play second fiddle to BMW among enthusiasts.