Just as Fast At A Third The Price: Can Audi’s V10 R8 Be The First Supercar To Embarrass The LF-A?

If you’re a carmaker, it’s a heck of a lot easier to get publicity out of a new model than one already in your stable. Incremental excellence isn’t nearly as sexy as the thrill of the new.

When a great car gets noticeably better, though, somebody really should take notice, because it means money is going to the engineering department and not just TV ads.

I was reminded of this recently after stepping out of two updated cars from Audi. The latest iterations of the R8 supercar and S4 sport sedan had better handling and were faster and more enjoyable than last time I spun around in them. And I’d liked them plenty before.

Among European carmakers, Audi was always more of a character actor than action hero or brassy starlet. It showed up on time and remembered its lines, but seemed content to let Brad-Pitt BMW and Meryl-Streep Mercedes-Benz take center stage.

Only this decade have the company’s cars become brasher and brighter, most notably with the 2007 release of the $115,000 R8.


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monster - 10/22/2009 2:37:43 PM

+3 Boost

Can anyone else see the whole article at Bloomberg.com? I see only Ads.

AlleVier - 10/22/2009 2:42:28 PM

+3 Boost

Try this (or type Audi R8 in the "Search News" box).

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aRwLOQhGcb3s

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/22/2009 2:41:45 PM

-1 Boost

The Lexus value will be in its rareness.

Joe_Limon - 10/22/2009 2:48:30 PM

-1 Boost

It won't even have that if they go back on their word and bump up the quantities like the one Lexus dealer on these forums was saying.

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/22/2009 3:08:59 PM

+1 Boost

Agreed

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 3:41:17 PM

+3 Boost

I hope they bump up the quantities. It would be a shame if they only made 500 LFAs. Though I don't believe they will, since they are losing big money on every LFA sold.

Joe_Limon - 10/22/2009 4:17:07 PM

+4 Boost

they aren't losing money on them... that is why they are so expensive...

camrydriver - 10/23/2009 11:56:21 PM

+3 Boost

There aren't many Pintos around anymore. Are they valuable now?

enthusiastx11 - 10/24/2009 1:19:43 PM

+1 Boost

they can't afford to make more in these times....too much money lost for every car made.

enthusiastx11 - 10/24/2009 1:24:04 PM

+1 Boost

joe:

they are definitely losing TONS of money on the LFA.

$375,000 x 500 = $187,500,000.

it likely costs more than that for just the materials and production of this car.

you do realize that development costs/building production lines for a car like this can easily run into the hundreds of millions right? (especially for company that is doing it for the FIRST time and has yet to learn the nuances of producing in this class)

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/22/2009 2:43:36 PM

+1 Boost

Here's a linked that work for me.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=aRwLOQhGcb3s

Yonder7 - 10/22/2009 2:57:33 PM

+2 Boost

Is up to you, I do not care if my car is "Unique"...what I car it if It likes to me. In this case I prefer the Design of the R8, but I want to see a compare ....to decide which one is the best....numbers will tell the history.

car750i - 10/22/2009 3:12:23 PM

+8 Boost

there acceleration times may be close up to 100, but I think the Lexus will be noticably quicker around a track. Its lighter by around 400-500 lbs, and has a smaller/ligher more powerful engine. The V10 R8 only lapes the ring in 7:44, the new turbo does it in 7:39. The lexus sould probably do it in the low 730s. Yes the lexus is expensive, but im sure in asian markets this car will be a ferrari equivalent to them. kinda like they call the gtr godzilla.the lamborgini is almost 300K and that is basicaly a R8.Is that worth the extra money? probably not,but people buy it. So people will buy the lexus.

Joe_Limon - 10/22/2009 3:27:35 PM

0 Boost

devil's advocate time! normally I dispise the R8's poor performance... but I'll support it for the sake of getting you to think about what you said. The R8 is awd, meaning it can get on more power sooner when exiting a corner without worrying about sliding out. The R8 is also mid engined, it's engine and overall weight might be a bit heavier then the LF-L but that weight is balanced evenly and most of it is in the center of the vehicle allowing it to have a very low polar moment of inertia and therefore quicker response times. I do not understand why it's ring times are so abysmal, hell a z06 even holds a faster time then it with less power. Speaking of which, the z06 is also about 100lbs lighter then the LFA with its 7.0 liter engine LOL.

M35MT - 10/22/2009 4:49:13 PM

+2 Boost

The Z06 has about as much plastic in it as the LFA has carbon fiber.

Joe_Limon - 10/22/2009 5:00:00 PM

+5 Boost

and it's still lighter

Joe_Limon - 10/23/2009 1:50:59 PM

+1 Boost

LMAO badgewhore, carbon fiber is light, the engine in the LF-L is supposedly light, by your equation those things must also be cheap shit lol!

XYZZ - 10/25/2009 2:50:26 AM

0 Boost

"The V10 R8 only lapes the ring in 7:44, the new turbo does it in 7:39. The lexus sould probably do it in the low 730s. Yes the lexus is expensive..."

less weight is ALWAYS an advantage, overcoming even awd vs rwd. look at how hard a lotus elise will charge around a course with tight corners, SHAMING many a car with 2x, 3x, and more engine and power!

and, there is the factor of refinement. one can say a lot about why a broadsword is "better" than a samurai sword, but the latter will PERFORM far better. not to mention being orders of magnitude more refined.

7msynthetic - 10/22/2009 3:18:32 PM

+3 Boost

LFA all the way. But that's my opnion. I will never be able to afford either but the LFA easily takes the nod for me. The car looks better with each passing review or video clip. So the Audi V10 may end up being faster, but to me the LFA would be more fun: awesome handling (like the Audi) a wicked engine note (which the Audi's V10 won't match) and lighter (Audi V10 will not be under 3300 lbs). It's the LFA's engine that takes the car - pure bliss. Thank you Lexus for bringing this to production.

pcar4evr - 10/22/2009 4:06:52 PM

+8 Boost

did he really say that the LFA and the R8 are UGLIER than the GTR?

Question: What is the name of your parallel universe?

BMW4me4ever - 10/22/2009 7:15:56 PM

+4 Boost

that is badgewhore for you. sipping his gt-r koolaide again. THe R8 is a stunning looking car in person. I am not a big fan of the New Lexus. Looks like a supra from the side and a nissan from the front.

For $330k large, A ferrari will creat more of a statment.

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 3:39:53 PM

+7 Boost

It is very expensive to develop a supercar from scratch. especially if you're implementing revolutionary technolgoy like carbon frame in the car.

VW owns Lamborghini and Audi. R8 is pretty much a rebadged Gallardo. They didn't have the development costs, hence the way lower price.

VISO - 10/22/2009 5:05:26 PM

-2 Boost

Get your facts straight bub! No rebadge here...

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 5:29:59 PM

+4 Boost

haha what planet are you from?

R8=Gallardo with the engine from the RS4. And now the Gallardo V10, same V10 that's in the S8

NannerPus - 10/24/2009 2:19:12 PM

+1 Boost

What is revolutionary about using a carbon fiber frame? Mclaren did that twenty years ago.

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 3:45:20 PM

-1 Boost

why not? LFA beats them or stays right with them on the track. exclusivity, engine sound, sheer thrill of driving is all there and then some.

answer - 10/22/2009 3:45:39 PM

+8 Boost

Less than 48 hours or so after its debut, we get 009's first poo-pooing "story" on the LFA.

That I believe is a record.

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 3:47:49 PM

+1 Boost

R8 V10 is 300 pounds heavier and has 30 less horsepower, meaning it will lose atleast 0,2-0,3 sec going 0-60 mph. doesn't have the sturdy rock solid carbon frame, so body roll will be greater. and now way it matches the engine sound. sorry audi:-)

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/22/2009 8:17:33 PM

+5 Boost

Um, the new Ferrari 458 Itailia is faster and has more power and will be out before the Lexus.

BMW4me4ever - 10/23/2009 10:47:00 AM

+1 Boost

Yeah but it is a Ferrari. enough said. In that price category, it is about making a statement and sex appeal. Unfortunately, Lexus doesnt have either. Ferrari is king in that segment with the Aston Martin a close second in the exotic sub $500k category. All about ego. Lexus has no heritage or pedigree. In this price range, it means alot, it means everything ....

NannerPus - 10/24/2009 2:24:04 PM

+1 Boost

What do you mean that lexus has no heritage? Don't you remember the toyota starlet? That is just one of many great automotive feats. And don't forget about the forklifts and sewing machines!

PerformanceGuy - 10/22/2009 4:04:52 PM

-1 Boost

Both the R8 and GT-R take down this overpriced Lexus. Only difference is the GT-R can do it with a V6 instead of a V10.

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 4:12:59 PM

0 Boost

If by "take it down" you mean they are slower, then yeah, they take it down:)

JUGNU - 10/22/2009 4:15:56 PM

+2 Boost

Why so much discussion about LF-A's price? It seems there is no problem when some 'experts' say for example, they will pick R8, Turbo, Gallardo over GT-R even though GT-R cost roughly half as much.
And also as somebody mentioned above why LP560-4 cost so much more than R8 V10 when they are basically same car, chasis, engine...etc.

IMO LF-A's selling point will be exclusivity, design, interior, unmatched quality and attention to detail, highly focused track car, engine, sound, 9000rpm...etc. And as in some video posted here on Autospies, the journalist who said LF-A is the best he has ever driven, he said customer of LF-A most probably already have Ferraris, Lambos even Mclaren F1. So we can understand who Lexus is targeting, not someone who is only got 400K but passionate, collector-type and very rich. I am sure Toyota will find at least 500 of them if not have already found. World is very big, only Middle East would order half of them.

JUGNU

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 10/23/2009 9:29:59 AM

+2 Boost

"Best car he has ever driven"

OK

But how many and what cars has he driven in his lifetime ?

If all i've driven is regular family sedans and a couple of slightly faster coupes then get placed in an LFA of course id rightfully claim its the best car i have ever driven.

LexusKindaGuy12 - 10/22/2009 4:16:34 PM

+2 Boost

speed isnt everything.

Joe_Limon - 10/22/2009 4:18:25 PM

0 Boost

LOL

VISO - 10/22/2009 5:11:45 PM

-1 Boost

Audi isn't loosing any sleep over the LF-A. If Audi wanted to build a super sports car in this price range, the LF-A would be finished. Tell Lexus to build a super sports car in the $150,000 range and compete against the R8. At $375,000 any car maker can create a super car of super cars. At least the R8 is realistic and not a one-off. Means nothing that Toyota can build this. Hey, the R15 is couple million. Would easily destroy the LF-A on any track.

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 5:35:06 PM

+7 Boost

so? Toyota F1 will smoke the R15 :-)

If Toyota owned Lamborghini and could rebadge a mass produced Gallardo (9000 built so far) and throw the V8 from IS-F in it, I'm sure they could make the LFA cost $150,000

But they have to develop it from ground up. With only 500 made, with an engine ONLY for this car. Oh, and a carbon frame.

Hence the price.

ThierryHenry14 - 10/22/2009 5:38:30 PM

+6 Boost

Scanned the article and don't remember coming across the word Lexus LF-A once... Where does Autospies get these headlines!!!

VISO - 10/23/2009 12:14:40 PM

0 Boost

First of all, the R8 is not a rebadged Gallardo. Diamond Jim do some homework and educate yourself in ACTUALLY researching the engineering specs of the R8 vs. the Gallardo. The Gallardo body is constructed in Neckarsulm and shipped to Sant'Agata Bolognese in Italy. The V10 is an Audi developed engine for Audi's subsidary Lamborghini. Audi already builds a supercar in this arena. It's called Lamborghini. Audi can do anything it wants with Lamborghini since it owns it outright. Spare the rebagde bullshit!

Anthony - 10/24/2009 10:35:34 AM

+1 Boost

VISO,

Regardless, the LFA was built completely from the ground up. The R8 was not, no matter how you look at it.

DinamoR - 10/22/2009 5:39:11 PM

+3 Boost

LFA is much more in the mold of a Porsche Carrera GT than a R8. Porsche made only 1300 GTs for ~$440,000 a piece. Considering Lexus will only make 500 LFAs, $375,000 ain't so bad

darzav - 10/22/2009 6:32:32 PM

+6 Boost

This is a case where Lexus > Audi. No matter how you argue, the LFA in terms of engineering outshines the R8. A V10 that redlines at 9000....amazing..

enthusiastx11 - 10/24/2009 1:18:08 PM

0 Boost

so by your logic...

S-class > camry is an accomplishment
911 > camaro is an accomplishment
335i > altima is an accomplishment

the fact that the R8 is better looking, matches many performance numbers and costs 65% less than the LFA is a pathetic statement on lexus.

oh...and the R8 makes money, th LFA is not profitable.

EL34 - 10/22/2009 8:35:51 PM

-1 Boost

I told you's all rappers and NBA'ers would be buying the nu Lexus.

Bmw8ter - 10/25/2009 11:25:06 AM

+1 Boost

Gotta love the LX450(LC). Best truck Toyota ever made.

Brembo - 10/22/2009 9:16:09 PM

+6 Boost

I don't think anyone who have the money to buy these even thinking about cost. They got too much money to care.

david999 - 10/22/2009 9:28:44 PM

-1 Boost

The Euro badgewhores have their panties in a knot about a car that 99.9% of them can't afford.

inspirion7 - 10/23/2009 4:28:46 AM

-1 Boost

huu76 So that is why they use the R8 again in the Ironman sequel, its old news. Maybe Transporter movies, Transformer 2, etc, makes the brand, and R8 viewed as old school huh, wow. Hollywood is out of touch.

Yeah, what was I thinking, the LFA is so visually stunning, I totally was blinded for a minute by its beauty. You are right, this car will be in every Beverly Hills 90210 episode, and new Bond movies. They won't be able to make enough, and like the historic Enzo, will increase the amount by 50. I better get mine before all the rappers and NBAer's poison the waters. Do you think this will be the new Enzo or Mc Laren F1 beater? Maybe take on the Bugatti 16.4? Can it walk ( drive) on water? Will it end world hunger or world peace? Will Toyota get the Noble Prize for engineering the LFA? Just wondering. Snoop Dog says" this car is the shizzal mah nizzal."

david999 - 10/23/2009 10:26:02 AM

+4 Boost

You know why the R8 is involved with Hollywood,
it's called "product placement" in exchange for money.

BMW4me4ever - 10/23/2009 10:50:41 AM

+3 Boost

lol

E92_M_Power - 10/23/2009 11:09:51 AM

+2 Boost

LFA is a super car, but absolutely not the "King" of super cars.

enthusiastx11 - 10/24/2009 1:18:59 PM

+2 Boost

hysterical. king of nothing.

pennfootball - 10/23/2009 11:12:51 AM

0 Boost

The Audi Dust not have zee lap timez of zee LFA...Ja Ja
Lexus made it because the new CEO has insecurity issues with himself and purposely made it with a single clutch for better feeling and crappier lap times. That is Bull$%!( man!

Type707 - 10/23/2009 5:53:30 PM

+2 Boost

I'd pick the R8