Which Import Brand Has The Genesis Hurt The Most? Read The Facts And See

Which Import Brand Has The Genesis Hurt The Most?  Read The Facts And See
When Hyundai debut the Genesis sedan Last year they made it clear that it had targeted the luxury community, they were putting the establishment on notice so to speak. Since then the economy has gone in the tank, and to almost everyone it seemed to be the worst time to introduce a flagship sedan.  The skeptics were laughing at Hyundai.

I will be the first to say that a Genesis in no way is on the same level as a BMW 5-Series or even a Mercedes E-Class when it comes to performance.  However to some that same argument can be made of the Lexus ES.  However when comparing brands. American buyers tend to look at size and amenities and concentrate more on price than absolute performance.  I guess you can call it a “good enough” approach.  If it meets most or all of the American buyer’s needs and costs significantly less, the less expensive car will get the vote almost every time.  Lexus all but devastated the Germans in the U.S. with this approach in the 1990’s, and Hyundai is using it now

Well now after a year of admittedly tough times we can take a look at the carnage see just how well the Genesis has faired. Early reports were indicating that Hyundai was making inroads against the establishment with a wide variety of makes and models being traded in for the “New Luxury” of the Genesis. But just who was suffering the most?  It was too early to tell.

We can start off first by stating the obvious; Hyundai has sold 17,784 flagship sedans this year. Not a bad run for their first foray into the luxury car scene, and it is abundantly clear they were getting sales from somewhere.  But with everyone suffering sales declines for the year you might think it could be difficult to determine who was being hurt the most.  That answer might not be a difficult as you might think to answer.

For example if you take Mercedes E-Class sales into consideration, you will see that even with an overall decline of just over 20% in brand sales for 2009, E-Class sales are only down 0.1% for the year.  Actually E-Class sales are only 37 units behind last year.  So on the surface it appears to Mercedes-Benz, that Hyundai isn’t even a blip on the radar.

If we take a look at BMW’s iconic 5-Series you actually see slightly different story.  Sales for the 5-Series are down 16.69% on the year. However with BMW brand sales in a nosedive of 25.6% overall.  You can see the 5-Series is actually holding its own, actually selling 1765 more units than averaged against the overall sales decline of the brand.

Audi’s A6 is another story here all together.  With sales of the A6 down 45.48% and brand sales down only 8.7% the A6 is losing ground somewhere and it isn’t pretty, but are they suffering from the “Genesis Effect”?  With A6 sales suffering 3686 more unit loses than the overall sales decline it might seem so.

With Infiniti being sales almost identical to Audi, we can see the M is too suffering from the same fate as the A6.  This time the M is suffering a whopping 45.03% decrease in model sales vs. a brand decline of 31.70% for the year.  In short the M lost 1765 unit sales more than the overall brand sales decline for the brand would indicate.  Someone is stealing these sales.

Last but of course not least we have two models that fall in the sights of the Genesis.  Both the ES and GS fall in sights of the Genesis due to their relative sizes and classifications.  Lexus has starting to show signs of a recovery, but brand sales have declined 25.6% for the year.  However if we look at ES sales you can see they are down almost 31% on the year bleeding 4120 more units than the 25.6% brand decline would indicate.  The GS is another story all together. Down a startling 58.3% the GS alone underperformed by 4829 units compared to overall brand sales percentages.

So if we take the models that under performed brand sales for the year, we can see the total losses bled off 14,339 units in sales.  A figure that isn’t too far off from what Hyundai gained with 17,784 units.

Now to say this is a definitive explanation of who Hyundai has hurt most would be misleading.  However when you compare the figures mathematically they do seem to give an indication of what could be going on in the industry.

Take a look at the figures below and tell us what you think.

  09 YTD 08 YTD % Drop Units Brand % Est Drop Delta
Genesis 17784 N/A N/A N/A N/A N/A 17784
A6 5463 10021 -45.48% -4558 -8.70% -872 -3686
E-Class 32811 32848 -0.11% -37 -20.10% -6602 6565
ES 37844 54783 -30.92% -16939 -23.40% -12819 -4120
GS 5771 13838 -58.30% -8067 -23.40% -3238 -4829
5-Series 32733 39289 -16.69% -6556 -25.60% -10058 3502
M 7277 13238 -45.03% -5961 -31.70% -4196 -1765
               
               
Underperforming Import Sedan Sales Decline Vs Brand Decline
               
A6 5463 10021 -45.48% -4558 -8.70% -872 -3686
ES 37844 54783 -30.92% -16939 -23.40% -12819 -4120
GS 5771 13838 -58.30% -8067 -23.40% -3238 -4829
M 7277 13238 -45.03% -5961 -31.70% -4196 -1765
        -35525     -14399


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Mason3RobertMason3Robert - 11/4/2009 1:23:26 PM
+8 Boost
Before I even read this, Im sure the brand is Lexus....ask me how I know this! Darn shame, 009 get a life. You're opinions are unbiased and a little light in the weight department.....


Mason3RobertMason3Robert - 11/4/2009 1:24:49 PM
+9 Boost
I mean to say Biased but thats like saying the sky is Blue...pointless


Joe_LimonJoe_Limon - 11/4/2009 1:32:58 PM
-5 Boost
Well it does make sense... Lexus sells on value not on prestige.


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 1:34:47 PM
-4 Boost
Dude how can sales figures be bias? Simply look and you will see Audi and Infiniti are hurt as well. The whole point is some brands are fairing better than others and Genesis sales have to be materializing from somewhere. The luxury market is only so big so it is a give and tug affair.


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 1:58:35 PM
-11 Boost
Joe- Lexus promotes a level of prestige at a value price. The hallmark of the brand.


Mason3RobertMason3Robert - 11/4/2009 2:06:35 PM
+6 Boost
Sales figures aren't biased which is why I cant understand why there is so much hate for Toyota worldwide and Lexus in the US. What is biased, however, are your posts! They hold no weight and end up making you look stupid....you are what you call a passionate hater of Toyota....Im sure they know who you are... your name, SSN….because their name is always in your mouth...hence your job, but I understand!

So if we are talking about sales and using a little common sense it would only make since for Hyundai to be after Toyota(the brand) and not Lexus. In the luxury market they have one car and a coupe...that doesn’t seem like the army you speak of.

Comparing Toyota to Hyndai aka Camry to Sonata (brands)

Can I answer this one????? Please????
ITS BECAUSE TOYOTA SHUTS HYUNDAI DOWN......overall sales, revenue, maybe not profit right now, brand appeal, options/choices, technology, resale value. There is something for everyone at Toyota....no matter who you are and if for some reason there isn't, Im sure you're not going to go over to Hyundai to take a peep at their lot, are u?



KZ258KZ258 - 11/5/2009 9:50:25 AM
+2 Boost
naw man. infiniti is only hurt cuz the M is old now, but i cant believe the A6 is down to 5k a year on sales....thats bad.

lexus is freakin crazy. 52k in 2008? goddamn...


ghosthunterghosthunter - 11/4/2009 1:33:38 PM
+9 Boost
Agent 009, you also said BMW would surpass Lexus to be the No.1 luxury car for U.S. this year.
you also said Lexus is in great danger this year.
you also said the X6 is a great vehicle and sale many copies.
you also said the new 7 is truly a class leading vehicle and will sale many copies.

those prediction has yet to come true. if i were you, i would shut my mouth and think a bit before i make another prediction.



Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 1:46:04 PM
-8 Boost
Actually BMW did for a month or two beat Lexus for a few months in a row. However Lexus will beat them for the year. So it did come true. More power to Lexus they are doing a better job selling cars than BMW right now.

Lexus is still in danger (and are several other brands) I still maintain that. They have plenty of issues to resolve.

I never said that about the X6 (001 did). I personally don't like it that much however it has sold just under 3,800 units this year in spite of being ultra expensive and thirsty. Not too shabby.

I never declared the 7 Series as anything. Actually a quick look shows I haven't penned anything about the 7-Series in about a year. But it is a class leading car, but again high price in these times will not sell.

So next time you spout off please make sure your facts are straight.



Yonder7Yonder7 - 11/4/2009 1:38:14 PM
+1 Boost
I disagree regarding the BMW 5 series, in fact cause it is an old model soon to be replaced...it still doing a good job on sales..so wait till you the new on the showrooms...I am sure we'll see a different story.


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 1:53:44 PM
-4 Boost
There are reasons why there are declines.

Audi has shown newer models will probably be more appealing than 4 year old designs. Just look at the A5.

So with that given, any model that is new will have an advantage on the showroom floor. So those that think they can ride on the coat tail of a successful model by simply refreshing the grill and tail light might be in for a rude awakening.

There are exceptions. The 7-Series for example is a great design, but ultra expensive and ultra thirsty in a weak economy may place you at a disadvantage.

The Genesis is a perfect storm. Great car, great value, & glowing reviews in a year with several embarrassing recall for Lexus have given them leg up.


Mason3RobertMason3Robert - 11/4/2009 1:46:33 PM
+3 Boost
So let me get this straight, because Lexus sells on "Value" and not prestige which also happens to be less tangible than value, they should expect to be hurt by the prestigious Hyundai? I like Hyundai, but until you take over Toyota you can forget Lexus cause its not going to happen and if it does I'll be the first to admit it. I prefer to shop on value and many feel the same as I. In a nut shell, we are not rolling around in cash so lets be selective about what we purchase.

Joe and 009 let me know when Hyundai's resale value reaches the top because right now I can expect to lose 70% in 4 years....FYI

Sales for Hyundai is good right now but keep in mind they are going through their climactic perioud: Genesis, Genesis Coupe, etc. Keep this in mind as well:

Toyota is to debut 11 new models(brand new models and redesigned/engineered models):

FT-86
4Runner
SAI (HS250 cousin)

I'd rather not talk about Lexus right now...

LF-A - speaks in volumes for itself
HS - hot and popular debut
RX - sales!!!!



Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 2:01:45 PM
-6 Boost
Then you are reading the demographics wrong. A whole different level of buyer is buying the Genesis. More affluent and older. The Chrysler cross shoppers probably bought under the clunker program a while back.


Mason3RobertMason3Robert - 11/4/2009 2:09:56 PM
+6 Boost
I agree....I have honestly seen only 4 Genesis and 1 coupe since it debuted! I'm not sure who buying them....maybe Hyundai's buying them. LOL Bad joke...


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 2:04:20 PM
-6 Boost
Funny they said the same about me warning that Lexus would over take BMW and Mercedes in the 90's. Just how did that turn out?


montyz81montyz81 - 11/4/2009 1:53:41 PM
+8 Boost
this is such a bogus article. The sedans they are comparing to are not generally at the same price point as the Genesis. Carpocolyps aside, most of the models are at the end of their model life cycle. Most of these cars will be redesigned in the next year. The Genesis is however an all new model. Lets see how it compares in a year against these cars and cars in it's price point as newer redesigned models come out.


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 1:55:59 PM
-3 Boost
montez81- Compare price on an ES to a M5 or even a A6 and tell me that again. They compete in category, size however is a defining factor to purchase. Lexus gladly pedals it wares to those group at a much lower price point. Hyundai is doing the same.


Mason3RobertMason3Robert - 11/4/2009 2:18:13 PM
+6 Boost
Agreed again....

Hyundai/009 should stick Toyota not Lexus.....Uhh, maybe not Toyota...they should go after Mazda, Subaru, etc


EL34EL34 - 11/4/2009 2:25:58 PM
+5 Boost
The Hyundai Genesis is a ripoff design and it won't last.

I would rather have a Ford Taurus SHO than the Genesis.


david999david999 - 11/4/2009 3:04:34 PM
+4 Boost

More bul****t from 009.


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 3:30:48 PM
-5 Boost
thx for the stars!


david999david999 - 11/4/2009 3:09:55 PM
+2 Boost

The car that gets cross-shopped the most against the
the Genesis has been the Acura TL. Why don't you include those numbers?


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 3:39:03 PM
-3 Boost
TL is a lame duck by most measures but could be included as well.
They have sold 28,394 so far this year vs, 39,999 last year. Down 11,605 units or 29.0% Brand sales are down 31.4% so they actually are holding their own with the TL. It was never was a factor in the outcome.


Joe_LimonJoe_Limon - 11/4/2009 6:37:18 PM
+4 Boost
b... given that it's twice the car for twice the price.


david999david999 - 11/4/2009 9:08:52 PM
+6 Boost

Considering the current TL is a new model that came out around the same time as the Genesis, those numbers are a disaster and are a lot worse than you make it out to be.


chewychewy - 11/4/2009 3:35:35 PM
+10 Boost
The Genesis hasn't sold nearly as well as the hype around it. It's a good car but has poor sales. Hyundai reports coupe and sedan sales as one, making comparisons completely pointless. Based on the numbers that the Genesis did before the coupe came out and reasonable numbers for the coupe, Hyundai is only selling a little over a thousand Genesis sedans a month. Not a great number for the price that Hyundai is asking. The similarly priced VW CC and Nissan Maxima are outselling the Genesis quite handily.

Also, the A6 lost a lot of its sales when the Q7 came out, some of this year's decline could be attributed to the new Q5 and some to the poor economy. Basically any sales lost to the Genesis are likely smaller than lost sales from other reasons.

The M is old and will be replaced soon, so it's likely losing sales to all sorts of competition not only the Genesis.


Agent009Agent009 - 11/4/2009 3:39:43 PM
-3 Boost
good points.


LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 11/4/2009 4:00:32 PM
+7 Boost
just because there are sales declines from other brands in this segment, doesnt mean they all chose hyundai instead...i dont see the connection. hyundai genesis buyers are not in the same league as the GS, A6, etc. They probably are cross shopping with the Camry or something


AudiNewEnglandAudiNewEngland - 11/4/2009 4:53:56 PM
-2 Boost
The genesis is a car for those who are poor, yet want to fool people into the thinking they are well-off. Therefore by buying a genesis, they are only hurting themselves. Poor people (Thumbs down)


answeranswer - 11/4/2009 6:03:12 PM
-1 Boost
Check the price of the Genesis then tell us that "poor" people are buying them.

It's no Maybach, but it ain't bargain basement either.


thstonethstone - 11/4/2009 7:24:00 PM
-4 Boost
This is about as good of an analysis that you're going to find. Sure, its impossible to know for sure, but the method is sound and the numbers add up. Kudos to 009!

Anyone that wants to refute the analysis is welcome to write their own and I am sure that it will get posted for everyone to read.


abqhudsonabqhudson - 11/4/2009 7:52:34 PM
-3 Boost
Great article and food for thought.


XYZZXYZZ - 11/5/2009 3:00:45 AM
+3 Boost
i also see oo9's argument is flawed.

one cannot ASSUME that a genesis buyer WOULD HAVE bought from any of the traditional luxury brands, simply because hyundai CLAIMS it is a luxury car too. audiphile posits good reasons why sales of certain (aging) models have declined year over year.

the most valid way to determine which brands are losing sales to hyundai, is to see just WHICH BRAND CARS are being traded on hyundais.

i think the Polk organization does studies on stuff like this. not sure if the info is freely available or has to be bought.


AudiphileAudiphile - 11/4/2009 10:04:43 PM
+7 Boost
A very interesting ointment, but there are a few flies in it so to speak.

Before I get started, I assume that you are quoting sales figures for the Geneses sedan by itself, and not combining it with coupe sales. If my assumption is wrong, let me know.

Here goes. One, I am sure that the brand-new, only-slightly-smaller, cheaper Audi A4 has had some adverse affect on A6 sales.

Two, a totally new A6 design will be introduced in this country in a little over a year, so some prospective buyers might decide to wait for the new one.

Three, a brand-new Infiniti M-series sedan will make its debut this spring, again causing some prospective buyers to hold off their purchase decison.

Four, you did not include the Cadillac CTS in your analysis.






AudiphileAudiphile - 11/4/2009 10:06:54 PM
+4 Boost
Oh yes, one more point.

My fifth point - you did not include the competing Acura model(s) in your analysis.


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 11/5/2009 12:50:45 AM
+3 Boost
Such a BS article... Makes sense in it's own way, but it, in no way, represents the reality.


OccarnutOccarnut - 11/5/2009 7:31:37 AM
0 Boost
I am impressed by the Genesis for what it is and the how well it appears to be doing for Hyundai. The most impressive thing to me is how many Genesis sedans I see around Orange County and SoCal which is a definite hot bed for car culture. If the Genesis is off to a decent start here it should mean good things for the brand in the future unless Hyundia screws it up somehow.


Type707Type707 - 11/5/2009 5:13:03 PM
-2 Boost
Infiniti and Lexus. Because of the similarities and looks,,,not to mention the price.


LauderdaleDriverLauderdaleDriver - 11/6/2009 8:42:28 AM
+1 Boost
Judging by who I see looking driving the Genesis in South Florida, the typical buyer is 76-85, uses a walker, and won't be buying a MKII version.

It is a good product, but jumping for the Lucerne/Avalon buyer, much more than the BMW/Audi market.

I wouldn't underestimate what they can do. The Koreans are smart, they are glad that their government bailed out Hyundai after the Asian debt crisis, and happily support their protected market.


PerformanceGuyPerformanceGuy - 11/6/2009 1:13:07 PM
0 Boost
Would have to say Acura and Lexus!


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