Future DTM-GT500 Tie Up Could See Lexus Finally Challenging The Germans On The Track

Cars in DTM have nothing in common with the respective production cars other than their bodies. I'd rather see more German cars in the Japanese GT300 series, where cars are a lot closer to their production specs.

Is that me or there is no Bimers on that picture....

There are only 2 cars to choose from in dtm, a benz or an audi. Worst racing series ever imo.

BMW has never participated in DTM, and Opel quit after 2005, leaving Mercedes-Benz and Audi the only two constructors left.

— FanboyOfTheTruth,
"BMW has never participated in DTM,"

That would be incorrect, the won in 87 and 89

That's because nobody watches DTM anyway. I guess people are fed up of watching a series involving two manufacturers, so it may be a good idea to open up the series a little.

Joe_Limon: that rise a question, you do not like the DTM or BMW torque is so weak that they won't be able to stand up in DTM?.....if DTM is so bad why that category is so famous?.....DTM is very rough and high reving engines with no torque won't suite in this arena.....

LOL yonder7 any car company can produce those "high torque" engines and compete in that series. It's just that other companies see that as a waste of resources and prefer to invest in other forms of racing.

Joe_Limon...: LOL Joe, in fact torque so important for the endurance of the engines and the performance, that all HIGH PERFORMANCE engines coming from BMW now will have a lot of torque, les rev cause that means less polution and a relaxed power....The new M5 is a perfect example followed by X6 and X5. The new V12 of BMW is more 500 lb-ft at 1500 rpm...and let me tell you ....I won't be surprised if BMW go for DTM (the new BMW V12 now is a real option for the people looking for efortless power in absolut quietness)....the new engines are not high reving engines but take this for sure: those will be higher HP, more fuel efficient, long lasting and will use less oil than the current high reving weak engines. And hell no...not everybody knows how to do high torque efficient engines. Forseen: we will see this kind of engines from now and on very often from BMW and others followers. Regarding racing.....it will be great to see everybody against everybody and we will win with that. 1995e34: You know that most of the time German cars are better than (engines)Japanese. Remeber the first attempt of Lexus with the ISF: Behind the germans.
"bmw wants to participate in a more international racing venue. a pairing of the japanese and german racing series would very likely bring bmw out to play" then why they pull out from F1?.....(may be they were not wining?)...

Yes everybody does know how to make a high torque engine, no not everybody actually makes them. Do you know what hp is based upon? It's a ratio of engine torque at a certain engine speed. You are saying not high reving engines will be higher hp. I dare say this isn't the case, without turbo charging the only way engines get "higher hp" i.e. close to 100hp/liter is through high engine speeds. Anyway I'm all for slower revving engines like the v10 found in the viper. I have argued countless times for its superiority in both lifespan and fuel economy. Also, maybe bmw pulled out of F1 because they realized it was a money pit, just like dtm is.

Joe_Limon: As engineer, I do understand the relation of torque, HP and RPMs.....and for that reason I do belive that BMW is taking the right direction, they are no wrong (now you´ll see engines that will last longer, cheaper, less oil used, less polution and better efficiency, with less RPM they are getting more done)....Regarding BMW out of F1.....Who do you think that have more money to invest? MB or BMW?.....If any company bring an sport car you will be questioning about the racing heritage....but if BMW bring a car and is not longer member of F1 or any other fomous race, you will say that they do not need it....that is biased (money pit?). I do belive that is money the main reason and that is a message about the current economic status of BMW., I hope the new 5 help them to return from the red numbers and return to F1....VANOS and several other development that make BMW great performer, comes from F1, finaly there are not too many low RPM high torque engines on the world beside MB engines....now BMW is part of the club and just like me, you will see a lot of people willing to test the BMW bread and MB will have to continue improving (finally I can say that MB is not loger the one at the top). I realy want to test the new 760IL or new M5....two cars that could change the balance of the luxury, sadly the exterior of 7 needs to be updated (my personal opinion)...There is just one thing that I do not like from forced induction engine: complexity....but I belive that BMW will be ok. And again.....Do not be surprised if you see a bimer on dtm as soon as they rise the cash.....

See yonder, the reason why I believe BMW's participation in F1 is useless is because they don't make sports cars. The five series is a sports saloon, and even the 2 door 3 series is a grand tourer and not really a sports car. The z4 is the closest thing they have to a sports car, and even then since it's only a convertible I'd pin it down as a sporty car... on the lines of a mini cooper. Finally... did people actually buy Toyotas solely due to their involvement in F1/Nascar? I highly doubt it.

A good quote I heard once while at a FSAE competition.
"How do you make a small fortune through racing?" ... "With a very large fortune"

The time will say who´s right.

the IS-F's engine isn't behind the germans in any way. Maybe the car isnt perfect but when you compare it to the 1st generations of the AMG cars and M cars I'm sure it's just as good. Things take time to get right and the IS-F is fine. The new model has a limited slip this time around and the 417HP V8 also makes 371 lb-ft of torque. BMW's M3? Less HP less torque. Lexus went with longevity instead of super high rpms like the M3. The engine is lively and can be used everyday as it has more torque than the M3. The C63 has way more power than both of them, but it isn't refined to the M3's standards. Yes it's faster in straight lines, but we'll see how the new IS-F fares when it's introduced. A 2nd shot at it will probably see it on more equal footing with the german cars who've been doing it for 15+ years now.

What the is-f lacks the most in terms of handling is predictability at the limits. Once you slide a bit it reacts quite sporadically.