Can A BMW M3 Actually Get Better Mileage Than A Toyota Prius?

The other day I was flipping through a few of the older Top Gear Episodes and ran across and interesting comparison of two polar opposites, the Toyota Prius vs. a BMW M3.

Yeah I know what you are going to say, the M3 would slaughter the Prius, Well of course the M3 would trounce the Prius if power was premise, but this was different.  In this case they ran the 4 cylinder Hybrid Prius through their Top Gear track with the brawny and admittedly thirsty M3 following behind.  The theory here was that if the Prius was driven flat out the far larger and heavier M3 could actually get better mileage because it was driven with a lighter foot.

On the surface this appears to quite plausible if both cars were strictly non hybrid, but logic would tell me that the hybrid nature of the Prius should become a decided advantage.    Especially considering several individual analysis's over the last few years have brought into question the true lack of green in the manfacturing process of a Hybrid.  With that said, a reasonable mind might dictate that the upside of this equation is that the effect of agressive driving style can be minimized by technology and the end result is a greener car in the long run.

Watch the video and see just how much driving style can effect your level of green and think about that the next time a hybrid car blows past you on the highway.




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Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 1:08:04 PM

+2 Boost

The aggressive start and stop nature of racing is not good for hybrids. The prius requires longer storing periods to maximize the amount of energy stored. Also, due to the increased slip angles of the prius spending half its time sideways, a lot of its braking energy is being used up just by the fact that the prius is skidding versus the bmw is conserving its momentum. Yes this comparison is/was valid.

Shredmo - 12/10/2009 2:22:58 PM

+5 Boost

I agree with most of what you said. In the real world, the Prius and BMW will undergo stop and go traffic. This will hurt the BMW's mpg, while bolstering the Prius's mpg. My idea of hybrid transportation: The car you like and a bicycle for when you can. My average MPG when I combine my cycling and my automotive use is pretty damn good. I ride my bike ~5500 miles per year though. If I owned a Prius, I'd probably ride my bike even more...

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 2:23:29 PM

+2 Boost

*shrugs at being deboosted* It's not like the M3 was being driven like a granny, it kept pace with the prius. Which is still spirited driving.

Agent63 - 12/11/2009 5:11:35 AM

+4 Boost

The V8 is still better for the planet than the Hybrid is in the long run. Don't deboost me. It's a fact. Go Google it.

America - 12/11/2009 8:59:31 PM

+2 Boost

The impressive performance from the M3 comes from BMW's groundbreaking Efficient Dynamics program. Proof Positive. Add to that, BMWs are nearly 100% recyclable as soon as they are made using BMWs many patented recycling methods. Plus their plant that gets most of its energy from reclaimed greenhouse gasses from the local trash dump. GREEN GREEN GREEN and FUN FUN FUN.

WIN WIN WIN

dlin - 12/11/2009 11:01:56 PM

0 Boost

WTF?

You might as well change name to 'America - kiss German ass'.

Anthony - 12/10/2009 1:18:29 PM

+5 Boost

These types of comparisons are trivial at best and everyone knows it. The fundamental point of validity is that driving the BMW M3 like a grandma will yield better fuel efficiency than aggressive Prius drivers. That is not a hard point to agree with, however it assumes that ALL M3 owners drive like grandmas all the time, and subsequently that ALL Prius owners rally race them down the highway. Neither case is true.

Agent009 - 12/10/2009 1:44:39 PM

+4 Boost

True but it all goes to show that being green is a lifestyle not a single choice.

Even people like Paul McCartney buy a LS460 Hybrid to be green, but have it shipped by a jet which polluted more than the car would ever save simply didn't think the whole process through.

In other words you can buy a car and drive it like hell and still expect to be green.

MSP6 - 12/10/2009 4:13:12 PM

+4 Boost

Speaking of Sir Paul.. He came to Quebec City last year for show. He landed at Quebec City airport, which is a 20 minutes ride from where the show took place (abraham's plaines). Sir Paul asked to be chauffeured in a red LS600Hl. Problem was the only red LS600HL was in ... Toronto, some 500 miles away.

Believe it or not, the Lexus traveled on a GMC topkick flatbed from Toronto to Quebec city to show everyone that Sir Paul is GREEN when doing 20 minutes commutes after long hours of "private jettin'"

He would have rented a Hummer directly at the airport, and it would have been LOT "greenier". But it's all a question of perception I guess.

Either that or he's having a sponsorship agreement with Toyota, as all of his motorcade was hybrid Lexus RX's

TECHGEEK - 12/10/2009 1:44:37 PM

+5 Boost

Clarkson is bang on the money when he says IT DOES NOT MATTER MUCH WHAT YOU DRIVE BUT IT MATTERS HOW YOU DRIVE!!!

Agent009 - 12/10/2009 1:53:40 PM

+1 Boost

That is correct! A Prius is a great choice to save money of fuel during ownership. But the bigger factor to being green is how big of a carbon footprint was used to make it, and later recycle it as well.

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 3:35:32 PM

0 Boost

The CNW choice makes sense if you hold toxic chemicals as worse for the environment then something you breathe out and plants flourish in anyway.

XYZZ - 12/10/2009 11:10:43 PM

+3 Boost

the CNW report was TOTALLY BOGUS, to suck in fools who'd LIKE to think priuses are not as good as generally perceived.

among the flaky ASSUMPTIONS it made: the prius would be scrapped at 100k miles, and the Hummer at 200k miles. anyone who KNOWS the relative longevity of toyota and hummer products would know the figures should actually be reversed.

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 11:37:21 PM

-2 Boost

LOL do you realize how biased any sort of numbers on the issue are?

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 11:54:26 PM

0 Boost

Also, I'd wager that a hummer would cost half as much as a Prius to maintain if both were to be driven to 500,000 miles. Hense I don't think the 200,000 vs 100,000 mile limit is really that biased.

XYZZ - 12/11/2009 2:46:09 AM

+2 Boost

you would likely LOSE your wager.

toyotas are among the lowest cost vehicles to maintain. heck i don't even follow factory maint. schedules which i believe are too conservative. and i have NEVER had any problems.

considering the prius' engine will NEVER work as hard as most, due to the electric motor assist, the prius is likely to be even less costly to maintain.

THEN, there is the matter of OPERATING costs. 45 - 50 mpg vs. what 15 - 20!??

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 3:20:11 AM

-1 Boost

Oh I wouldn't think that the engine in the prius would break, it's being stressed about as hard as the hummers engine, I'd just have a hard time believing that the batteries/motors would hold together to 500,000 miles.

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 9:23:17 AM

-2 Boost

You only think that because it insults everything you hold dear about being eco friendly/Toyota. Seriously, if the program targeted the smart car you would have different opinions.

Brembo - 12/10/2009 2:03:28 PM

+6 Boost

This was done 2-3 years ago. Thanks for the update buddy.

FanboyOfTheTruth - 12/10/2009 2:06:45 PM

+2 Boost

00J welcomes you to 1.5 years ago, 009. Must be a slow anti-Toyota/Lexus news day today.
http://www.autospies.com/news/BMW-M3-Vs-Toyota-Prius-Who-Really-Is-the-Fuel-Economy-Champ-31575/

EL34 - 12/10/2009 4:27:04 PM

+4 Boost

I'd rather drive the BMW M3 :-/

thetruth01 - 12/10/2009 4:58:36 PM

+3 Boost

I think it's about time for the CNW article to be reccyled as "news" once again. It's been a few months, no?

Is it that hard to find an anti-Toyota news story nowadays, 009? I mean dredging up a shoddy piece of Top Gear propaganda from 2 years ago is really scraping the bottom of the barrel, even for you.

When I had my GenII Prius, I would routinely drive the I-5 between SF and LA at 80mph, always getting 50mpg. I don't know how fast Top Gear had to drive to get their mpg down that low, and I'd be willing to guess that they started with a depleted battery. Any midsized car using only a 1.5L engine, going top speed is going to return lousy gas mileage.

It's a bogus comparison, anyone with half a brain knows it. And its an old story. I expect bette.....O no I don't, I forgot where I am.

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 5:36:13 PM

-1 Boost

Speed isn't what was killing this car in the comparison, it was the fact that the prius was floored 95% of the time and got little to none of its regenerative braking back. I guess it requires a full brain to realize that.

800over - 12/10/2009 8:16:17 PM

+4 Boost

So then who told you?

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 9:20:07 PM

-1 Boost

lol

ThierryHenry14 - 12/10/2009 5:06:56 PM

+2 Boost

1) this comparison has been shown/beaten to death.
2) it all depends on the purpose you are building a car for. Its like a Formula 1 car v. an Indy Car. The Indy car is faster, because its aerodynamics are designed to go in circles. But strip an F1 machine of its aerodynamic grip and you can get the car to go 400kph.
3) With all that said, I would still rather go for the M3. For the amount of fuel I can potentially save versus the fun I can have, I believe the M3 wins (obviously)!

XYZZ - 12/10/2009 11:16:20 PM

0 Boost

the irony is that in this top gear SET UP piece, the m3 was actually being driven more in a manner that econo drivers drive, while the prius was being driven as a manic teenager would.

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 11:42:21 PM

-1 Boost

Dude, they were driven exactly the same.

XYZZ - 12/11/2009 3:06:18 AM

+2 Boost

no they were not.

the prius driver was told to go AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. the m3 driver merely had to keep up. given the diff in HP and cornering ability, while the prius was working 100%, the m3 was at MAYBE 30-40%.

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 3:24:17 AM

-1 Boost

Exactly, if the bmw driver kept up, that means both cars seen EXACTLY the same spirited driving. Of course the bmw wasn't being pushed to its limit like the prius. The aggressiveness of the driving doesn't change based on what your vehicle is capable of.

XYZZ - 12/11/2009 4:22:11 AM

+2 Boost

dude, just how much time behind the wheel do you really have?

when the prius driver has the gas pedal floored for say, 3 seconds, the m3 driver would only need say 1 second. if he held it longer, he'd also need to subsequently BRAKE harder and longer. and if he were doing THAT, then he's an idiot and he would not have gotten such good mileage.

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 9:07:54 AM

-2 Boost

So? You prius types are sooo hard headed, how is it so hard to see that they were driven the same if they kept up to each other?

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 2:23:41 PM

-1 Boost

How is it not being driven the same? You see the same later force in the corners, you see the same accelerations and decelerations. It is exactly the same kind of spirited driving! Who cares if you still have 300 more hp available to you.

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 2:24:24 PM

-1 Boost

lateral*

XYZZ - 12/13/2009 6:18:29 AM

+2 Boost

joe, maybe YOU drive like an asshole and think the m3 driver in this 'test' was doing likewise. namely, hanging on the prius' bumper all the way.

a SMART driver, knowing he has an intrinsically faster machine, would LEAVE A GAP to ALLOW for his faster accelerative and cornering ability. KNOWING he can close the gap AT WILL, at ANY TIME.

hence, while the prius was working 100%, the m3 was at MAYBE 30-40%. and DOING A LOT of COASTING! and even closing the gap WHILE coasting, with better braking when needed at the last second.

—

Joe_Limon - 12/13/2009 12:21:09 PM

-2 Boost

XYZZ, you are hopeless. If you pull 0.8 g's in a corner, no matter what car you are driving you will still feel the same god damn forces on your body. If it takes you exactly x amount of seconds to get from point a to point b then you are driving the same! It doesn't matter even if your car can do the ring in under 7 and has a sub 10 second quarter mile, if you tell the cops that you weren't speeding because you were seriously only using 10% of the cars potential they will, and I will laugh at you.

XYZZ - 12/14/2009 5:00:01 AM

+1 Boost

"...you are hopeless. If you pull 0.8 g's in a corner, no matter what car you are driving you will still feel the same god damn forces on your body."

YOU are a total simpleton, unable to discern DIFFERENCES in performance.
the bmw can corner at what, .9 g? WHY would its driver wastefully hang on the prius' bumper, make heavy use of his brakes, and limit his cornering to .8g?

if I were driving it, i'd hang back about 1/4 to 1/2 mile. and i'd be NOWHERE NEAR full throttle pacing the prius. i'd also try NOT to brake, but let the prius driver brake so he can corner at .8 g or whatever his limit is. approaching the corner, i'd STILL BE COASTING (IN GEAR) and corner at .9 g or whatever my limit (or comfort level) is. which may or may NOT require braking.

THAT is how the m3 could be just as fast around the course, and actually use less fuel than the prius.

as i said, SOME hypermiling technique is employed in the process. and NO speed is sacrificed. that is ALSO generally how i handle hilly, curvy terrain. hypermiling is NOT ALWAYS slow.

Joe_Limon - 12/14/2009 2:19:06 PM

0 Boost

lol, "i even create virtual hills" meaning you coast to a slower speed and then accelerate. As to hills, you might be picking up speed down the hill, but you also said it is to use it in going up the next hill, meaning you are slowing down on the uphill. Face it, if you are constantly changing speed I am correct, and notice not once did I make any assumptions over your "amazing" infinite modulation pressures lol.

Joe_Limon - 12/14/2009 2:21:55 PM

0 Boost

My you are stupid, the harder you take a corner the more energy you waste sliding. You wouldn't be saving any fuel by holding back a quarter mile and taking the corner faster.

XYZZ - 12/10/2009 11:29:23 PM

+2 Boost

e34: "...my method of getting better mileage was incumbent upon the highway traveling over hills. while the cruise control would increase gas consumption as a hill slowed it down, i could see the hill coming, gradually pick up a few extra mph, and let the hill bring me back down to the same speed as the cruise control."


i was practicing hypermiler tricks long before the term was popularized.
the most efficient way to tackle a hill, is to build up speed ahead of time so you can "pull it down" WITHOUT A DOWNSHIFT. then, once over the crest (or just before if you have EXCESS speed to bleed off), shift to N and coast down the other side.

at the most basic level, avoid using the brakes whenever possible. every time you brake, you essentially THROW AWAY all the fuel used to get to the speed you're slowing from. i have coasted down hills at 70 mph (routinely) and up to 95 (coming down the Sierras). of course, beyond a certain traffic density, it's not possible to avoid braking.

in light to moderate traffic, i even create virtual hills on the flats between signals and stop/yeild signs. i've gotten 40 mpg OVERALL doing this. and i am not a slow driver.

Joe_Limon - 12/10/2009 11:38:18 PM

-3 Boost

Oh, so you're one of those assholes who pass people and then let off the gas as soon as you are in front of them.

XYZZ - 12/11/2009 2:50:14 AM

+2 Boost

no you idiot. when i pass people i usually KEEP GOING. i get off the gas only when i anticipate a NEED to slow or stop.

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 3:26:02 AM

-1 Boost

No you don't, you just said after you accelerate you slow down in order to "hypermile".

XYZZ - 12/11/2009 4:15:17 AM

+2 Boost

learn to read with ACCURACY, and without injecting your faulty assumptions.

'coast' is not exactly the same as 'slowing,' esp. when i'm coasting down from 70 mph.

further, i NEVER make abrupt changes from accelerating to slowing. an intermediate CRUISE mode always precedes a coast down.

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 9:11:44 AM

-2 Boost

Dude, I recognize what coasting is. What I am saying is that if you step on the gas pedal and you pass someone at your higher rate of velocity, then let off the gas pedal, you will "coast" to a slower speed the person you have passed will catch up and will consequently have to slow down due to your douchebag driving skills, if he decides to pass you, in the next mile of road chances are you will step on the gas again pass him and piss him off even more. DOUCHE maneuver pure and simple.

Joe_Limon - 12/11/2009 2:22:14 PM

-1 Boost

I am fully aware of why he is driving the way he is, I am simply stating that it is frustrating to have someone let off the gas pedal right after they pass you.

XYZZ - 12/13/2009 6:06:22 AM

+3 Boost

joe, for a person with some supposed intelligence, why is it so hard for you to understand SIMPLE ENGLISH?

i accelerate BEFORE hitting a grade, just MAINTAIN or even bleed off speed while climbing (NOT accelerating any more!), if there is no foreseen need to slow on the other side, i RE-accelerate slightly after cresting, and THEN coast. in Neutral. i NEVER BRAKE.

most drivers i pass will NOT find me impeding their progress until AFTER they catch up (IF they do at all), WHEN i've coasted down to 'normal' speeds. and MY normal tends to be ~ 10-15 above average anyway.

Joe_Limon - 12/13/2009 12:23:48 PM

-2 Boost

I never once said you hit the brakes, I said you let off the gas, I think it is you who doesn't understand english. Just because you are coasting doesn't mean you are keeping the same speed, friction will slow you down, but apparently you are too retarded to figure out that you slow down when you aren't on the gas.

Joe_Limon - 12/13/2009 12:25:51 PM

-1 Boost

Also, unless you willingly create a distance gap bubble which slows everyone down, then there will be times at the very end of your acceleration if you pass a vehicle you will slow them down.

XYZZ - 12/13/2009 11:53:52 PM

+1 Boost

joe you jerk, DO YOU EVEN HAVE A LICENSE, or are you JUST a kid whose total sum knowledge of autos is from magazines and videogames?

apparent you are too ignorant and NAIVE to recognize that in REAL WORLD driving, all control inputs are analog and rheostat like. NOT a simple on/off.

all of your ignorant criticisms of what i do, indicate you have NO IDEA of graduated inputs. everything is either ON or OFF in your simple mind.

Joe_Limon - 12/14/2009 12:35:58 AM

-1 Boost

LOL of course I drive, and it appears that I know a hell of a lot more about how cars work then you do. The on the gas pedal off the gas pedal driving style is what you are admitting to and what I am dissing you for, and here you are criticizing me for believing what you told me? ahaha you are funny.

XYZZ - 12/14/2009 4:31:16 AM

+1 Boost

dolt.

you STILL don't understand the FINE points of speed control. i have MULTIPLE MODES of slowing: TWO coasting, engine braking in the different gears, AND actual use of the brakes, with infinite modulation pressures. i've already said i HARDLY use the brakes; that does NOT mean i'm always slowing when not on the gas. i have more miles under my little toe than you have in your foot and brain combined.

and contrary to your ignorant ASSumptions, i can even ACCELERATE WHILE COASTING, as i INVARIABLY DO when the grade is steep enuff. did i not say earlier i ROUTINELY coast down from 70 mph? and less frequently, from even higher speeds?
how would i be "holding up" other traffic, when the typical driver SLOWS AS he climbs UP the grade? while on cruise control before it downshifts. after which he USES MORE FUEL than i do at that. THAT is why 1995e34 turns OFF the cc for hills, as do i.

it seems you are with those in the MINDLESS DRIVING camp who do not know how to handle hilly terrain with both economy AND SPEED.

Joe_Limon - 12/14/2009 2:20:00 PM

0 Boost

oops! forgot I was arguing with you in two places!

lol, "i even create virtual hills" meaning you coast to a slower speed and then accelerate. As to hills, you might be picking up speed down the hill, but you also said it is to use it in going up the next hill, meaning you are slowing down on the uphill. Face it, if you are constantly changing speed I am correct, and notice not once did I make any assumptions over your "amazing" infinite modulation pressures lol.

agent507 - 12/11/2009 4:48:48 AM

0 Boost

I still remember this one. Man, I had such a good laugh at the Prius and the folks at Toyota, and especially when they showed that the mining for the battery is in Canada, then they transport all that chemicals (obviously C02 neutral – not) to China, make the batteries, ship it to Japan, build the cars, and then ship these cars (mostly) to the tree huggers in north America. What a brilliant show.

But, and here comes what people tend to forget: In our days, it depends a lot more on the way you drive a car, than on the car itself, regarding the mileage you will be able to achieve.

agent507 - 12/15/2009 2:58:10 AM

+1 Boost

Invisible,

sorry mate when I hurt your feelings. Nothing is CO2 neutral, not even if we have sex (even breathing creates CO2). Should we stop breathing? Or stop having sex? Nope.

Did I mention Hummer?!? Nope.

Did I just say what I saw - and enjoyed - in the video? Yes.

Do I have the time to explain in this forum why CO2 matters? Nope.

Have a nice day.

XYZZ - 12/13/2009 6:34:55 AM

0 Boost

LOL!

NOT TO MENTION, all the OTHER heavy users of nickel have been and still are, MUCH more BENIGN to mankind than toyota. companies that make nickel plated GUNS, from handguns to heavy artillery pieces, monster v8 and v12 engines, etc. etc.