Why Do Companies Sacrifice Mileage For Performance On Hybrids? Isn't UNREAL Mileage All People Want?

Why Do Companies Sacrifice Mileage For Performance On Hybrids? Isn't UNREAL Mileage All People Want?
As we have seen the green movement come, there has been a flurry of alternative energy vehicles. From light hybrids to all-electric autos, there have been cars and trucks of all flavors. But, a noticeable trend is a lot of new hybrid or alternative energy vehicles have been focusing on performance.

Problem is: these performance-oriented alt. energy vehicles do not deliver the best MPG numbers.

And, isn't that what customers want from these vehicles? For example, we see the new Honda CR-Z, which is being pushed as a "driver's hybrid," yet achieves a zero to 60 time of nearly 10 seconds. As a user pointed out the other day, the Honda Odyssey is faster than that. Although these times are not the best way to judge, it does not paint an inspiring picture.

The positive side of the CR-Z is that initial reports are saying it will obtain nearly 60 MPG. So, why are they pushing this performance angle?

Then, there are cars like the dreaded Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid. While it delivered performance on par with the regular sedan counterpart, it could not break the low 20s, when it came to MPG.

What do you say SPIES? More performance, less MPG? OR, more MPG and less performance?

What is the right mix?


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Joe_LimonJoe_Limon - 1/3/2010 1:08:53 PM
-2 Boost
I say make a button on the dash that adjusts valve timing, ignition timing, fuel delivery, and battery discharge rate. That way you can choose to have your 60mpg car with no balls, or have a 30mpg car with some pep. But if you had to choose one or the other, make sports cars and make hybrids, use hybrid technology in sports cars only to boost performance, not to try and achieve prius beating fuel economy.


mplsmpls - 1/3/2010 1:15:05 PM
+3 Boost
Audi is taking another route because it knows its behind Toyota & Honda etc..


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/3/2010 1:47:45 PM
+3 Boost
We're moving towards being able to achieve both. BMW said that Vision Dynamics Concept is expected to hit 0-62 in 4.8 seconds and return 62mpg from its diesel hybrid powertrain, and it's all-wheel drive and seats four people. That's pretty promising. As for why all manufacturers don't go the Prius route with hybrids, well that's pretty simple. If Audi or BMW came out with cars that drove like Priuses, for example, people wouldn't buy them because they don't fit their brand image. The rest of the world already gets diesel engines in their vehicles that achieve similar fuel economy without sacrificing other things a Prius does, like "enjoyment" and "fun". A hybrid vehicle still has to fit the brand selling it. I think the problem here isn't necessarily with what manufacturers are doing, it's more that you're pigeon-holeing what a hybrid has to be based on what YOU believe a hybrid should be, instead of accepting that it can be more than just than just one type of car.


Agent001Agent001 - 1/3/2010 2:24:08 PM
-1 Boost
But why doesn't Ford or Nissan or Hyundai blow the Prius away with a 100mpg vehicle with basic performance?

That's the the sweet spot of the market isn't it?

Why can no one beat the Prius 50MPG on a mainstream car today?

001


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/3/2010 3:18:53 PM
+2 Boost
I would guess there are many reasons, not the least of which is a vehicle that achieved 100mpg would likely cost a whole lot of money, which sort of defeats the purpose of the fuel frugality. I don't know what kind of electric motor(s) and batteries would be required to accomplish that, or how big and heavy they'd be with todays technology either, but I'm sure packaging constraints would also be an issue. Maybe we'll see it with a diesel hybrid, and I imagine it would start on a higher tier car. Since luxury cars are expensive in the first place it would make more financial sense than a $40k+ Prius would. A BMW 320d already gets 50mpg without a hybrid, that wouldn't be a bad place to start.


FanboyOfTheTruthFanboyOfTheTruth - 1/3/2010 3:50:38 PM
+2 Boost
JRobUSC & Agent001:
It's people like you who don't bother reading into details that allow manufacturers to keep fooling the masses with unrealistic MPG and emission claims for PLUG-IN hybrids. Got it? Plug-in hybrids. They can claim whatever figures they want as long as most of the test distance is driven on pure electric power.

Until EPA or EU comes up with a better testing methodology for plug-in hybrids, their MPG and emission figures are pretty much meaningless.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 1/4/2010 10:30:28 AM
0 Boost
Fanboy, that's interesting, I never said anything about the testing methods. I happen to agree that the way a Volt is tested gives it a ridiculously inflated MPG rating by the EPA. Maybe you want to read what I say before you comment on it, or at the very least ask for an opinion before you go off on a tangent and bring up things that no one mentioned.


FanboyOfTheTruthFanboyOfTheTruth - 1/4/2010 1:03:31 PM
+2 Boost
The fact is that you quoted the "62mpg" claim. That's enough evidence that you bought into the artificially inflated hype of plug-in hybrids, or that you didn't even know that the BMW's Efficient Dynamics concept is a plug-in hybrid and thought they somehow magically pull a 62mpg and 0-60 in 4.8s out of drastically superior new technologies. Well they didn't.


truckmantruckman - 1/3/2010 1:57:25 PM
-1 Boost
PML flightlinks flagship's car is twice as efficient as the Prius and has 640BHP,where is the compromise there? The fact is that all the companies have shit for brains in comparison to PML Flightliks mini cooper. 0-60 times of 4 sec. Four hours of battery and 80 mpg when the batteries run out, The rest of the companies are either told not to make anything too efficient (gas tax)or they have shit between there ears.


Joe_LimonJoe_Limon - 1/3/2010 2:11:40 PM
+1 Boost
How much does that electric mini cost? We are talking about $20,000 cars.


truckmantruckman - 1/4/2010 4:22:36 PM
+1 Boost
I think you meant $200,000. And yes it is expensive because it is a one off, If you made a one off Prius it would cost about the same, If they ever mass produced PML's car it would be competitive in price, but no comparison in economy or performance, the FACTS that I mentioned went over Everyone on this posts head. Facts is the objective word here. Considerably more efficient than the Prius and 640BHP, doesn't anyone get it?


Joe_LimonJoe_Limon - 1/4/2010 8:03:13 PM
+2 Boost
Super capacitors and high output motors cost more to produce. While I agree that the car would cost less in bulk production, I would still guess that it would sell for $20,000 over the cost of the original mini cooper.


truckmantruckman - 1/5/2010 4:55:35 AM
+1 Boost
Nobody can argue with you on what the actual cost may be if PML made a car like there flagship? It would perform somewhere in the league of the top 30 stig times I can imagine and still be more efficient than the prius,lol


clsboyclsboy - 1/3/2010 2:20:51 PM
+8 Boost
If you want mileage.... go ride a bicycle!!!...


chewychewy - 1/3/2010 4:00:37 PM
+4 Boost
Because Americans wouldn't buy them, same reason why non one sells normal gas powered cars with small engines that get great fuel economy. Fuel isn't so expensive in the US for a significant amount of people to trade off horsepower for fuel economy. The EPA fuel economy test is also set up in a way that different tricks are more beneficial than say making a car lighter and less powerful.


IhavearedS2000IhavearedS2000 - 1/3/2010 6:45:14 PM
+3 Boost
Uhm....where oh where are you getting reports that the CR-Z will be getting around 60mpg?!?!?! - I'd put my money on somewhere a tick below the current Insight's numbers....


Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 1/4/2010 12:43:23 PM
0 Boost
I don't care what the damn car looks like...If it gives me more miles per gallon than your car ....I WIN!!! AAAAHHHAAAHHAHAHA!! <sarcasm>



Need4SpeedNeed4Speed - 1/4/2010 12:47:15 PM
0 Boost
PS...only a true Autospies fanboi would see the humor in that


XYZZXYZZ - 1/5/2010 5:49:40 AM
+2 Boost
"For example, we see the new Honda CR-Z, which is being pushed as a "driver's hybrid," yet achieves a zero to 60 time of nearly 10 seconds."

your problem is, you try to use 0-60 figures as the only measure of what "a driver's hybrid" ought to be.

no one questions the mazda miata as "a true driver's car." yet it does NOT have spectacular 0-60 acceleration.

I would define a driver's car as one that CORNERS well. period. other attributes could ADD to this, but that imho is the PRIMARY definition.

ANY FOOL can stomp on the gas and leave in a cloud of tire smoke. does that make him a skilled "driver?" NO. a real driver would easily catch and PASS such fools at the first curve or corner.

a smart driver would accelerate GENTLY, but KEEP accelerating to a cruising speed about 10 mph above average. and only reluctantly, if at all, slow for the curves.

this yeilds high mileage, low transit times, and FUN in showing up the less skilled. (THIS is how i used to get 40 mpg OVERALL, while STILL bettering 99% of competing traffic in all pt A to pt B crosstown trips.)

i imagine honda is catering to THIS TYPE of smart driver.


XYZZXYZZ - 1/5/2010 6:00:50 AM
+1 Boost
this said, i agree with you that it makes little sense for mfgrs to push "performance hybrids."

what they ought to do instead, is take a model already reknown for performance, use a SMALLER ENGINE. then add an electric motor that will yeild performance CLOSE TO the top model. and of course, regenerative braking to capture the energy normally THROWN AWAY.

better yet, use a much smaller engine, to maximize mileage. while of course, retaining the driver's suspension, and a hybrid system.
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