CNN Money reports 12 GREENIEST cars of 2010 according to the ACEEE's data - The US anti-diesel lobby strikes again !

Greeniest should be greenest?

Also, since when was carbon dioxide bad for plants? I argue that emissions help plants breathe better.

Damn, I even typed it in upper case, shame on me.

ACEEE are scientists with degrees in engineering who understand fuel and energy efficiency as well as automotive technology. Their rating is 100% correct.

Diesel fuel requires about 12% more imported crude oil thus more energy to produce a gallon than gasoline. This causes diesels to loose their real energy/fuel efficiency despite a bit higher MPG numbers.

Here goes a list by EPA (fueleconomy.gov) of how many BARRELS OF IMPORTED CRUDE OIL (and, thus, energy) a car needs to cover 15.000 miles:

1. Honda Civic GX - ......0.1 barrels of oil
2. Toyota Prius - ........6.9 barrels of oil
3. Honda Civic Hybrid - ..8.2 barrels of oil
4. Smart ForTwo - ........9.5 barrels of oil
5. Honda Insight - .......8.3 barrels of oil
6. Ford Fusion Hybrid - ..8.8 barrels of oil
7. Toyota Yaris - ........10.7 barrels of oil
8. Nissan Altima Hybrid - 10.1 barrels of oil
9. Mini Cooper - .........10.7 barrels of oil
10.Chevy Cobalt XFE - ....11.0 barrels of oil
11.Hyundai Accent blue - .11.4 barrels of oil
12.Honda Fit - ...........11.0 barrels of oil
--------
VW Jetta TDI - ...........11.6 barrels of oil

Even if we assume carefully driven Jettas get 40 mpg US combined, it produces consumption of 10 barrels of crude oil. Problem is, most cars exceed EPA rating as well are are more efficient in real life.

Example for Honda Fit noticeably exceeding EPA rating:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG.do?action=browseList2&make=Honda&model=Fit

So diesels offer little or no real efficiency advantage over gasoline cars and cannot even touch hybrid cars. Then add high costs of diesel vehicle, low reliability due to complex and fragile engine/drivetrain of a modern diesel car and still worse emissions.

Engineers know it. Technically uneducated motoring journalists working as marketing guys, spreading biased and unfounded opinions don't (or don't want to).


What Volkswagen needs to do is to start selling their excellent, efficient and sporty TSI small turbocharged and supercharged engines. The cars are much cheaper than diesel ones, produce more torque at wheels, are faster, more pleasant and fun to drive, lighter, much simpler and cheaper to own and cleaner (with simpler exhaust and emission control, no particulate filter or NOx reductor needed) than any modern diesel.

You'll easily get 32 mpg US from a 160HP turbo/supercharged VW Golf/Jetta with excellent driving dynamics.

"So diesels offer little or no real efficiency advantage over gasoline cars and cannot even touch hybrid cars. Then add high costs of diesel vehicle, low reliability due to complex and fragile engine/drivetrain of a modern diesel car and still worse emissions."


You are so full of shit it's unbelievable. First of all diesel is an in-between product from oil to gasoline so please stop this bullshit about more barrels of oil being needed to produce diesel.

Secondly, you claim diesels are have "low reliability" because of complex electronics. Gee, I wonder why you don't talk about hybrids and their "poor reliability" given the countless electronic systems nannying them.

You conveniently forget to mention that diesels rape most hybrids outside of the city in fuel economy. The only real advantage of a hybrid vehicle in terms of fuel economy is in the city.

Thank you, Willis. I'm tired of hybrid fanatics spewing this nonsense about how many barrels of oil it takes to produce diesel--as if you must turn that oil into gasoline OR diesel. Diesels need to be in the alternative power mix (and, yes, hybrids) until electricity production becomes cleaner and more renewable and until battery tech improves.

— Willis:

> First of all diesel is an in-between product from oil to gasoline so
> please stop this bullshit about more barrels of oil being needed to
> produce diesel.

A gallon of diesel fuel requires more hydrocarbon mass to produce than a gallon of gasoline. Thus, it requires more energy to produce and more crude oil to import. Crude oil is a blend of various hydrocarbons.

Uneducated and frustrated hybrid haters can squeal like butchered pigs as much as they want. They won't change elementary facts about fuel production and energy content, obvious and known to any educated individual anyway. And to people at ACEEE.


> Secondly, you claim diesels are have "low reliability" because
> of complex electronics.

Not electronics but fragile mechanical devices like:
- super high pressure fuel pump, very sensitive to fuel quality
- super high pressure fuel injectors, same as above applies here as well
- variable vane turbocharger, sensitive to temperature and load changes, particularly prone to failure when traveling short distances frequently
- particulate filter, easy to clog or damage by failure of sensors it uses
- double mass flywheel, get damages easily when the vehicle is not driven smoothly, in a delicate way

None of these components is used in hybrid cars. Instead, low maintenance and extremely durable components like a battery, inverter, wiring (no moving parts) or an electric motor (one moving part) are used. Full hybrids also don't have complex gearboxes (they don't have gearboxes at all) and clutches to wear. Brake pads wear much longer than normally too.

Result? Toyota Prius tops JDPower reliability survey, beating even simple gasoline cars. At the same time diesel VW Jetta gets lowest score.


> You conveniently forget to mention that diesels rape most hybrids
> outside of the city in fuel economy.

Cheap lying won't help you. Toyota Prius gets better highway MPG than VW Jetta diesel. Lexus RX450h gets WAY BETTER highway MPG than BMW X5, Mercedes ML or Audi Q7 diesel.


> The only real advantage of a hybrid vehicle in terms of fuel
> economy is in the city.

Again, cheap lying only makes you suck more and more. See above.


— AlleVier:

> I'm tired of hybrid fanatics spewing this nonsense about
> how many barrels of oil it takes to produce diesel

Europeans didn't understand this. That's why they pay over 6 USD / gallon now. It's not only taxing but also very pricey refinery reconfiguration and massive diesel imports/gasoline exports what raises fuel prices in Europe.


> Diesels need to be in the alternative power mix

No one needs diesels in passenger cars. They are as costly as hybrids and nowhere near as efficient or reliable.

Only industry should run diesel. As in the USA. Hence low prices at the pump.

downtoearth, it looks bad if you look at it as number of barrels of energy.

Try looking at it this way, diesel fuel is more energy dense then gasoline. Therefore you don't need to use as much per mile you get. It's pretty much equivalent to gasoline.

Now you are forced to ask yourself. Do you want a 35-40mpg midsized car that has just a single 4 cylinder engine? Or do you want a 35-40mpg midsized car that has a 4 cylinder engine, plus batteries that will need replacing plus motors plus an elaborate control system to keep things running and playing nicely together? To me the more eco friendly car is the one that doesn't use a battery that weighs as much as I do. Sure most of the batteries made now are mostly recyclable, but those rare metals are recycled into steel not into new batteries. Making this another expensive draw on resources outside of oil.

Downtoearth,

Your spinning of facts is simply unbelievable. I won't bother wasting my time on you and your hybrid propaganda.

I am not opposed to hybrids, but your bias and spinning descriptions are not worth my precious time.

I think its funny the Nissan Altima Hybrid made the grade but the Camry Hybrid didn't. Do they know or realize that the Altima Hybrid is the exact same as a Camry Hybrid just different skin. Nissan borrows the engine/drivetrain from Toyota.

Huu76,

You too are so full of shit. You're a known moron with nothing factual or truthful to say. Clearly you have no clue about politics and social structures in Europe regarding automobiles. Your well-known hate of anything European is known to everyone on Autospies.

You claim that diesel-engined cars don't last long. Clearly you have no clue. Why not take a trip to certain parts of Asia, South America and especially North Africa where they employ, aside from a handful of gasoline taxis, mostly diesel-powered taxis from mainly Mercedes, Citroen and Peugeot. Most of these cars are on their original engines and still racking up thousands of miles per week. There are many Volvo and Mercedes diesel cars that are in museums having racked up over a million kilometers while still functioning as new as they day they left the factory. In the Mercedes museum in Stuttgart there is a 1960s 240D taxi which spent its life in Athens in Greece working as a taxi. Mileage? 4.2 million kilometers. That's right, 4.2 million kilometers.

Do me a favor and shut the f_ck up about hybrids and reliability and long-lastingness because no hybrid has yet broken the 1 million kilometer barrier.

The engineers who design and build diesel engines at European firms know how to build a proper diesel engine that can last for many miles. Europeans are not stupid as you make them sound. Moron.