You Make The Call: Who Is To Blame Here? Lexus Or Driver Crying Wolf?

I wonder how many "trouble free" miles the ES 300 had on that the four people die in?

Who cares? It was the dealer that screwed up and put RX All-Weather floor mats in an ES. PLUS they put them on top of the original carpet mats. That's two no-nos at once. Hell, the mats even say right on them "DO NOT PLACE ON TOP OF EXISTING MATS" and I thought it was self-explanatory that you'd put ES mats in an ES, and RX mats in an RX and so on and so forth....

I'm glad my car is awesome enough to put all weather mats over standard ones.

But what I don't get about the floor mat recall is that people are reporting sudden acceleration, not continuing acceleration. Meaning the pedal wasn't pushed, and that this by and large could still be an electrical gremlin (no matter how much Toyota is protesting it isn't). Besides, if Toyota can get away with a couple zip ties to solve a problem and is successful at hiding the electrical gremlins from the public, they are financially better off... until of course a couple years pass and these problems haven't stopped.

You are right. Why is there no info on how many miles the Lexus that killed four people prior to the crash. And why is it everyone always assumes that its the carmaker's fault whenever someone dies in a crash? How come driver error is always downplayed whenever the driver or a passenger dies in a car crash? One thing is for certain, one can't help thinking that these people who blame the car companies for their "near death experience" are trying to get some $$$. Or at least their lawyers might be.

In all the "official" complaints, there have to be a given number acceleration claims that are completely (driver) error. The massive US govt involvement has opened Toyota up to numerous false claims of "sudden acceleration".

I had a 89 Buick Century that had sudden acceleration issues and would just shut off at stop lights. After it happened 2 times, I took it to a repair shop. They put it on a diagnostics machine and found that the vehicle computer has malfunctioned and needed to be replaced. It wasn't a mechanical issue, but completely an electrical/controls issue.

In this Toyota case, I think there have been multiple factors that caused these acceleration issues --- but in different events. Maybe the accelerator pedal did "stick" in one car; b/c of the wrong/mis-installed floor mats. In another case, a pedal assembly may have been the cause. And in the case where the drive's brakes didn't respond, the CPU was the culprit. Toyota is so fcukd --- in so many ways --- they may have to install a completely different system from a competitor to regain confidence in this stream of cases.

WINS555: And why is it everyone always assumes that its the carmaker's fault whenever someone dies in a crash?

I am not "everyone". I dont think its always the carmaker who is at fault when someone dies in a crash but if you heard that frightening 911 call the family in the Lexus made, it doesnt sound like it was anything driver related going on.

The minute she mentioned "God intervened" you knew it was BS time. Time to cue the violins, stand for the church service and wipe a fake tear for the camera so that Congressmen can look important. Not to say that is about "God" but presumably that he/she/it dosent work for NHTSA or the Lexus Service dept.

Look, out of the 30 open investigation for NHTSA only 3 are for Toyota , but this not really about safety as much as knife sharpening on a compettitor of the domestic car industry . Tax dollars at work ! Make that more Tax dollars as the word is GM is gonna need some more dosh pretty soon ...

i fully agree.

i gave her the benefit of the doubt at first. but when she claimed she tried ALL the gears, i started getting doubtful. especially when she said she did try N. which ON ANY VEHICLE, would've disconnected the engine from the drive wheels. (unless she had in N for a microsecond on the way to trying other gears.)

when she claimed she got it into R and P, that clinched it for me she was lying JUST TO COVER her stupid ass.

And you Lexus fanboys claim Lexus owners are "smart"... :-p

wee willie, i have YET O SEE any evidence of advanced intelligence in anything you have ever posted.

YET TO SEE...

The claim is that she tried to put the car into a different but the computer ignored the input and wouldn't take the car out of gear to attempt a switch.

Rhonda is a monkey and does not know how to drive a car. She pressed the gas pedal thinking it was the brake. Now she wants some attention and maybe some money for it.

She sounds fat.

how about giving us some facts? how many accidents/deaths per year on the road related to each car brand? driven miles and number of cars on the road adjusted. Give me these facts and I will decide for myself what cars are safe to drive.

We should not give a drivers license to people like this!

Let's try to be decent humans and give this lady a break, while not giving in to histrionics. Her car should be found and analyzed critically by NHTSA.

The center stack and dash controls & indicators are getting too complicated in new cars. Toyota/Lexus are not as bad as Acura, but still overwhelming. They are a distraction and a safety hazard. I looked at the 2007 model year ES when it came out - drove it several times at the dealer. It seemed to be lower quality interior than the '03 model, so I skipped it. I think the new Buick LaCrosse is more complicated than the ES, so the engineers at GM should take note.

center stack and dash controls are one thing.

the tranny lever is another altogether. throughout THE WHOLE HISTORY of the automobile, shift levers were A CONSTANTLY USED control, and hence placed "to fall easily to hand."

since the invention of automatics, they're not used so much. yet every car maker still ENSURES the lever in easily reached.

The '03 Lexus is better than the '07 with respect to the quality of materials used and fit-finish.

As per this article, I think the lady was overwhelmed by the car. How did she find her way to make a congressional testimony ? Sounds like Congress was just looking for someone to bad mouth Toyota.

The Lexus in that pic up there looks Awesome!!! Such an aggressive yet classy stance.

OK, only one thought for some geniuses here:

How often is it neccessry for this fault to occur to be a problem? For somebody at the wrong time, wrong place, and wrong car 1 is more than enough.

So, to claim, that the car is now running 27.000 miles without problems, and therefore there is no problem, is like saying I had unprotected sex during all my life so far, and I am still not HIV positive, so I will just carry on without protection and everything will be fine for sure.

Idiots.

using your terminology, that is an IDIOT analogy.

i was personally in a car with the throttle STUCK wide open. no less than FIVE TIMES, and i survived ALL. because i am NOT and idiot driver and i know what "N" means.

in the last case, the buick involved had been driven tens of 1,000s miles. and the incident occurred ONLY with my nephew driving, but had had NO problems with his parents driving? WHY?

because while the linkage DID have a possibility of hanging up in the WOT position, ONLY the nephew had EVER jammed the gas to that position.

Dear XYZZ,

I think that I would also survive an incident of sudden acceleration. In my job I actually managed to survive quite a few situations (breakdown of ESP during obstacle avoidance maneuver, complete shutdown of all electrical systems at full speed, rear wheel explosion, etc.) where somebody else might have died.

BUT that does not make me arrogant enough to assume that everybody would be as lucky (or experienced ) as me.

There are actually quite a lot of people, who view cars as appliances for getting from A to B. They have absolutely no clue about what is going on underneath the surface. Here is another story: My wife once phoned me, because the Navi screen went blank while she was on the highway, and she was wondering, if it is still safe for her to drive. She just doesn´t have the knowledge, that all the electrical functions necessary for safe driving are NOT influenced by the availability of the entertainment technology. So, go figure and if you were offended by the word “idiots”, I change it to “Eunuchs”!

@ agent507: I thought that was a perfect example to what is going on with the car with 27,000 miles without problems. Idk what XYZZ doesnt see there.

Anyways, I do also think this lady is full of sh*t because, like the article stated, she sold a vehicle she thought she was going to die in: So why would would the Smith's sell a vehicle they thought was a death trap?

@LACMAN:

I agree, this lady is not the type of "eye witness" that I would trust either.

The only thing which I am not comfortable with is the reasoning "... the car is running for 27.000 miles now and therefore there is (and was) never a problem with it ..." but with this I think we are on the same position.

i will just say ONCE again:

"in the last case, the buick involved had been driven tens of 1,000s miles. and the incident occurred ONLY with my nephew driving, but had had NO problems with his parents driving? WHY?

"because while the linkage DID have a possibility of hanging up in the WOT position, ONLY the nephew had EVER jammed the gas to that position."


i don't know just HOW MANY 1,000s of miles was on the buick, i'd guessitimate north of 60-70,000. neither the previous owners, nor my brother and his wife, had any problems.

was it a "deathtrap?" well, potentially. certainly NOT absolutely.

the potential hazard ONLY would evolve IF it got into the hands of 1) a person more inclined than not to jam the gas pedal to the floor, in combination with 2) that person not knowing the SO SIMPLE action of shifting to N and/or switching the ignition off.

how many runaway incidents happen on expressways, vs. in dense traffic on surface streets? i can't say this is a definitive answer, but i would bet heavily that most of these incidents ONLY happen after a driver jams the pedal down hard.
that smith woman looked like just the type who would do this.

it boils down to:

anyone who drives AGGRESSIVELY (which even i have done on occasion), MUST HAVE sufficient skill to react calmly and in a safe manner IF such driving gets him or her in a tight spot.

OTHERWISE, they should be prepared to accept the consequences. simple Darwinism at work.

i would add, i'm glad my nephew experienced this while i was riding shotgun and could coach him on proper reactions.

he's NOT a bad driver. on racing video games, he actually kicks my ass.

but he had to learn that in REAL WORLD driving, vehicles are not as bulletproof; pedals get stuck; brakes can overheat. he's a smarter driver now.

There should be no discussion on this toyota has publicly admitted there is a problem! Read the news!

Exactly

Just like Audi in the 80's.....real problem was driver pressing the gas instead of the break. There are more than a few options if the throttle was really stuck. Slam the gearbox into reverse for chrissakes. Or turn the car off and restart it. No reason to let the car just crash!

She wants money and she wants to be on TV.I was in a plane that had to do an emergency landing last year. I didn't go in public and cry.I havnt been emotionally scarred,but if there was a class action lawsuit going on,I might have a few broken ribs,scratches and head trauma lol jk :). Lets be honest though.I'm gonna waive the BS flag on this one.

No machine in the world is idiot proof. If you panic you get hurt. From a riding lawn mower to a car you must know the machine you are using. Is the manufacturers at fault if you get hurt by a machine. If you get your foot cut off in a lawn mower is Toro at fault. Put the car in neutral, turn it off, Don't reach into a mower blade it is all the same. If you don't know the best safety practices around a machice you will get hurt. It's the american way, take it for granted, know as little as possible then sue when you get hurt.

i would just add, the more idiot-proof any machine is, the greater the INGENUITY of the IDIOT who manages to get hurt or killed with it!

and toyota DOES have a better than average safety record. but they also have a far greater than average number of cars on the road. hence, the higher probability of their netting extraordinary idiots among the millions of drivers. ;)

I think that whoever drives a Lexus without being forced to (i.e. rental, loaner, mercy driving, lost bet) is to blame in the first place.