Has Toyota Finally Succeeded In Turning Itself In To Another General Motors?

As the February 2010 sales figures have rolled out, a number of sources noted that Toyota is responding to its plummet in the figures with incentives and 0% financing.  While this seems like a sure-fire way to boost their sales in the short term, it also makes Toyota sound more and more like the General Motors of the 1970s and 80s.

Consider this:  Over the past decade Toyota has gone against longstanding traditional mores governing parent company/parts supplier relationships by putting the screws to their suppliers even in the best of times in order to milk the most profit out of each part.  In addition to abusing their suppliers, Toyota has put international growth above all else (even by their own admission).

It doesn't take a historian to see the General Motors-esque pattern developing here. ("Profit Above All Else -> Short Term Thinking -> Negative Results from Short Term Thinking (unreliability) -> More Short Term Thinking (lobbying to avoid repair costs rather than simply recalling the product and fixing future models) -> More Negative Results (increasing numbers of complaints and/or deaths) -> More Short Term Thinking (hastily executed recall that may not have even solved the problem entirely) -> Product Devaluation -> More Short Thinking (incentives) -> Further Product Devaluation) Heck, GM got it down to a science in the 1970s and 80s, right before they were forced to pay the price.




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uaw_lax - 3/3/2010 3:04:38 PM

-2 Boost

Well maybe you should check this link out if you do not agree with 009.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35690247/ns/business-autos/

Joe_Limon - 3/3/2010 3:17:46 PM

+5 Boost

good find, I'm not suprised at all that their half assed zip tie and tiny blocking pin solutions really didn't do anything.

And as to this article, yes and no, to truly emulate GM they are gonna have to lose their gonads and have the uaw invade all of their facilities.

uaw_lax - 3/3/2010 3:22:39 PM

-4 Boost

joe you do realize about 70% of all autos are made by some type of Union labor including all Toyota's built in Japan.

Joe_Limon - 3/3/2010 3:38:46 PM

+3 Boost

I do, and do you realize that not all unions are the same? Some might actually put company and therefore employee security before benefit programs. Seriously, how GM existed with $70 an hour wages (after benefits) is beyond me. You don't need to hire all the way down to janitors full time with full benefits!

uaw_lax - 3/3/2010 5:39:12 PM

-1 Boost

Joe 70$ an hour is a totally untrue amount calculated by a few anti-bailout people who opposed the loans. They added averages our benefits and found that yes we made more money than Toyota/Honda workers (in America because the Japanese Toyota autoworkers are the top earners)and when they notice that the gap was not big enough they added the price of benefits of the retired workers into the formula to and arrived at $70. When you factor in the retirees which we have over 3 times as many as Toyota because they have only been in the US for 50 years or so that makes our labor artificially cost more. On a worker compensation level with benefits just for current workers we are only a few dollars more. Personally I have never made 150K which would be $70 an hour annually.

Check the link below:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/do_auto_workers_really_make_more_than.html

In all of my arguments I always provide a link.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=11&year=2008&base_name=hw_much_do_uaw_members_make

Joe_Limon - 3/3/2010 6:14:58 PM

+1 Boost

lol, I know that, that's why I said after benefits, it isn't the hourly rates that are/were killing them. Companies usually have a retirement program where part of an employees pay cheques gets paid towards a standardized retirement fund. Thus the company shouldn't be paying peoples retirements.

uaw_lax - 3/4/2010 3:23:26 AM

-2 Boost

You do know that for the past 3 years the UAW retirement has been mainly in the hands of the workers themselves in the form of V.E.B.A .It was agreed upon by the UAW and GM to be more competitive against the south.

Also current workers can not help the fact that there are so many retires but that is why they have VEBA in place. This will save GM Millions of Dollars.

Joe_Limon - 3/4/2010 11:36:13 AM

-1 Boost

"This will save GM Millions of Dollars."

This will save billions, but not any time soon, the current retiree force has to die off...

uaw_lax - 3/4/2010 5:43:32 PM

+1 Boost

In a few years GM will have hardly any part of funding the UAW's health care once VEBA is fully funded so no one has to die the workers have health care and GM is off the hook to use money in other ways to keep the company highly competitive. To sum it all up it's not the workers fault that our legacy cost at a default is higher than Toyota's but this step will rectify the problem.

Agent009 - 3/3/2010 3:10:28 PM

-4 Boost

Do I sense a bit of animosity there?

The article does pose some interesting points.

I do however feel that once an organization get to a certain size that they all encounter the same issues. Such as leadership becoming totally disconnected from reality, and communication is far more difficult and less open.

It is all in how the company deals with the issues once they surface. In this case Toyota should do far better than GM ever thought of, at least these issues have their full attention.

uaw_lax - 3/3/2010 3:18:59 PM

-6 Boost

Have to agree with 009. Gm was far to slow in fixing problems Toyota on the other hand can put this behind them in a matter of months if it is managed well.

M35MT - 3/3/2010 4:11:53 PM

+6 Boost

Maybe you should ask if GM is turning into Toyota.

Where's the article on GM's 1.3 MILLION vehicle recall?

Where is it 009?

Are you going to post it or just deny it?

uaw_lax - 3/3/2010 3:25:36 PM

-3 Boost

The company I think has more potential for fires (problems) would be the Volkswagen group they have quietly been growing faster than Toyota.

thetruth01 - 3/3/2010 3:50:30 PM

-4 Boost

Why Toyota is not like GM....

They actually responded quite quickly and on a large scale to the fake SUA issues. Even Sec'y LaHood admitted so under oath.

Their incentive program is going to be more targeted and limited than GM's ever is.

(Profit Above All Else)-name one, just ONE, company where this is not the primary goal.

(unreliability)-Toyota still makes some of the most reliable cars on the road, recalls are among the lowest, reliability scores among the highest, current media hype notwithstanding.

(lobbying to avoid repair costs rather than simply recalling the product and fixing future models)-see above, they actyually responded quite quickly and decisivley to an issue that is (fake), hard to replicate, (fake), difficult to pinpoint, and did I mention fake?

(increasing numbers of complaints and/or deaths)-sheep mentality and litigiousness of the US, and you know that to be true.

(hastily executed recall that may not have even solved the problem entirely)-do you have any evidence of this? O yeah, it actually takes God to stop a runaway Toyota.

(incentives)-as I said, targeted and limited, seems like a smart short term fix.

(Further Product Devaluation)-not likely, but purely a hopeful guess on your part.

You're back to your old ways, 009.

thetruth01 - 3/3/2010 5:56:26 PM

-1 Boost

Seriously, Joe. Everyone knows that virtually all SUA claims are driver error.

O and my bad, 009, not ur article. It sounded so much like u, lol.

camrydriver - 3/3/2010 6:02:58 PM

+4 Boost

Did you actually say that the recalls are among the lowest? I couldn't read another word you typed.

Toyota is much worse than GM. Have you read about Toyota's "safety wins" where they brag about how many hundreds of millions they saved by not handling safety issues promptly and properly?

"The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota — Safety Group." The document cites millions of dollars in other savings by delaying safety regulations, avoiding defect investigations and slowing down other industry requirements."

Now toyota has to face congress for their unethical behavior that continues to put people at risk.

If you still think it is BS, then you need to watch the head of toyota grovel. He knows how bad they are that they got caught.

PS I still have a camry available - body kit and wing included. IM me.

thetruth01 - 3/3/2010 6:46:13 PM

0 Boost

(Joe's reply should have been below his comment.)

To Camrydriver, look at NHTA's recall reports, Toyota is comparatively quite low.

And as for those documents, again I submit that Toyota is like all other companies. Profits first. It may look bad out of context, but if you helped your company avoid an expensive recall, you would brag too. Maybe you would actually believe that the recall wasn't warranted. But that's not what is at issue. They saved money by avoiding a recall and were happy about it. I bet there are some reports being generated by someone in RenCen right now describing how much money they will lose by being forced (finally!!) to do their 1.3 million vehicle recall. Had they won at NHTSA, there would be someone trumpeting this win. (They just wouldn't put it in memo form now. Not that anyone would force them to testify in front of their owners, er... the US gov't)

camrydriver - 3/3/2010 10:55:37 PM

+2 Boost

I love how you apologists cite the imaginary behavior of other companies to justify the ACTUAL unethical behavior of your pet company. FYI, that is NOT a valid arguement sir.

Have you seen the latest news about your sacred cow?

"Acceleration Incidents Cited on Repaired Toyotas "

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/business/04toyota.html?scp=1&sq=acceleration%20incidents%20cited%20on%20repaired%20toyota%20&st=cse

yes that correctly says 'on REPAIRED toyotas'


Why are you hitching your wagon to this unending train wreck? Find a good company - that's I'm trying to do.

[camry for sale...cheap...really, really cheap...includes wing and spoiler...must sign waiver]

XYZZ - 3/5/2010 4:49:20 AM

+4 Boost

yeah, the gov't goons went digging thru TONS of records looking for evidence of more KILLER toyota problems not yet overpublicized.

and all they could dig up, was POTENTIAL leaky oil tubes! LMAO.

if you wanted the feds to find their own buttholes, they'd probably FAIL at that too, UNLESS there were oversized hemmorhoids! lol.

Joe_Limon - 3/3/2010 4:58:54 PM

+4 Boost

seriously? I rolled my eyes and stopped reading when I read "fake".

Yonder7 - 3/3/2010 6:42:07 PM

+2 Boost

In Fact this will make a Better Toyota...Something that I won't dare to say about GM.

XYZZ - 3/4/2010 8:15:41 AM

+2 Boost

well, at least you got further than i did huu!

it disappeared even before i got to click on it!

the Bad News SUPPRESSION SQUAD of Gummy Motors is really on its toes!

M35MT - 3/3/2010 9:01:52 PM

+5 Boost

I posted an article here yesterday about the GM recall, the agents dont seem to want to approve it.

91z4me - 3/4/2010 5:13:48 PM

-1 Boost

huu, I wouldn't go crowing off about that just yet. Toyota's Corolla's seem to be having a similar issue.

91z4me - 3/5/2010 3:46:38 PM

0 Boost

I guess you are a true Toyota fan, blame the owners 1st. It isn't like Toyota has ever made a product with a fault.

Joe_Limon - 3/4/2010 1:23:51 AM

+3 Boost

lol huu76, you're trying to get him to argue facts that aren't true, why should he have to reply? I like e85 because it produces more power and I can shove food crops down my tail pipes that third world countries could have had.

upwards - 3/4/2010 9:01:36 AM

+1 Boost

Lol

XYZZ - 3/5/2010 5:12:00 AM

+2 Boost

"I like e85 because it produces more power..."

LMAO! this oh so astute connection with FACTS shows joe_lemon's automotive genius! GM should sign him up immediately!

uaw_lax - 3/4/2010 3:33:45 AM

-1 Boost

lol huu i just like e85 becsuse YOU dont!

Kinger - 3/4/2010 9:44:10 AM

+1 Boost

Hmm.. the plot thickens...

http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2010/03/bob_lutz_blames_toyota-backed.html

rubenkincaid - 3/4/2010 9:22:06 PM

+4 Boost

Another GM? Give Toyota a full 30 years of crap product, and then it will turn itself into GM.