Have The Tables Turned? And Who Now Makes The Most Desirable Driving Machines?

Not BMW and certainly not the BMW-wannabe, Audi.

The company that makes the ultimate driving machines in 2010 is without question Porsche. Its SUV, sports cars and now big sedan are the best mass produced drivers cars available.

I wouldn't pin BMW on Lexus.... I believe that BMW has always been a creative car maker just like Infiniti where they come up with their own designs and technology...

Wait for it, the Lexus badgewhores should be here any second now.

I'm one :) Lexus is the one promising naturally-aspirated RWD performance cars for the future aren't they?

Ultimate driving machine? I"ll put my money on one of those Rally bread, Turbo charged, sports sedans (EVO/STI/Focus RS).

I wouldn't call them uncomfortable. Especially the EVOX MR. You do realize that an EVO X MR has about the same ride comfort as a BMW335? Would you say that the 335 doesn't have any comfort? Cars like the EVO X MR are comfortable enough for me, even drove one from NY to Atlanta and back without any problems with comfort.

Instead of deboosting me how about a counterpoint?

To me, "driving" is not what you do every day... That's commuting. As a commuter car, BMW is just fine. However, so is Lexus, Benz, Chevrolet... just about everything.

Now for a DRIVING car, I would have to agree on the EVO/STI and possibly add most of the more modern LOTUS lineup. The Z06 is also a very capable track/hooligan car as well, plus the bellow of a 7-liter V8 is intoxicating. Those are about it for my budget that I have actually driven. I'm sure there are many other vehicles I could add to this list as well, but my somewhat limited experience in higher-end cars really limits what I can type. I refuse to be the typical Autospies "SPEW-POSTER." :)

Not my title but it did get people's attention.
I actually like the title from the original article: "Truth" vs. "Joy". Sums up the article pretty nicely.

Actually JustaCar is a bonafide reader. What can I say, great minds think alike?

Last time I checked they still make the 335, M3 and 550. They're simply expanding their product line to make more money. Porche made an SUV and that now accounts for HALF of their profits.

Look at the brand you love to hate, Lexus. You hate the ES350. But it rakes in the dough. Should they dump it to improve their image with enthusiasts? Please...

Your argument doesn't make sense. Lexus has never been considered a car enthusiast brand. The ES rakes in the dough because it epitomizes what the brand is about: Transportation appliances with enough "luxury" on the surface to lure in the average car buyer.

My argument makes plenty of sense. Lexus wants part of the enthusiast pie, so they made the IS-F and the LFA. Many argue that this is absurd because all they make luxury appliances like the ES, RX, etc. They are simply expanding their product line, in the reverse direction that BMW is now doing.

The ES rakes the dough because it is an entry priced+level supped up Camry. Lower price point (among luxury brands) higher sales... simple economics. NOT a driver's car by any means.

That is an interesting question. I never understood why they made that their tag line, as it is not true. Different people value different things in cars, so the ultimate driving machine is going to be different from person to person. For me, the ultimate driving machine is certainly not a BMW.

What a foolish article one the article talks about how these vehicles backfired on BMW not the case at all. While I agree with the point some of BMW's latest additions seem rediculous ie the X6 and 5 GT, there isnt another car in BMW's lineup that doesn't match everything BMW's are known for and have been for quite some time. Not to mention the article states how they were forced to apply countless incentives to move cars while from a revunue standpoint they hold the title of best selling vehicle in several segments while closing the gap between luxury giant Lexus here in the states. It states Mediocre products far from BMW still makes benchmarks in the 3, M3, 5, M5, X5, and 7 mediocre???? far from. At the end of the day its about what sells not just selling to alot of people in this blog who dont buy cars no matter how ugly it is the TL sells because it has a good formula, just like the RX not an enthusiasts car but who can argue with its sales numbers, its about creating a BMW that also appeals to the masses....thats business, and BMW will not be left resting on their laurels.

I concur. The author while ranting about BMW doesn't seem to know the company very well, if he did he would know the "Joy" advertising has been in Europe as long as "The ultimate driving machine" has been in America.

bmwdrvr says "Not to mention the article states how they were forced to apply countless incentives to move cars while from a revunue standpoint they hold the title of best selling vehicle in several segments while closing the gap between luxury giant Lexus here in the states"

Yes revenue and sales volume can be bolstered with incentives. But what does it do to the bottom line otherwise know as PROFIT? That's where BMW has stumbled lately.

You act as if no other luxury manufacturer has incentives, thats not reality regardless even with incentives people bought their cars because out of everything out there thats what they felt was the best. They could go to any luxury maker and get equal or higher incentives than what BMW was offering on cars that are cheaper as BMW's typically run higher than its competition. Im confused you bash BMW, yet Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti,AUDI, Cadillac, Acura, etc and even Porsche who ALL have given incentives in some way shape or form due to the market are not even mentioned here its the business you compete.

Audi dealers locally are offering $1500 incentive for anyone who trades in a BMW. Lexus is offering incentives on the slow selling GS models and IS models. Mercedes has cash and lease incentives on most of their cars.

Every manufacturer is hurting and thus to spurn sales, they use incentives. BMW in Europe has always been about the " Joy ". BMW is still the best pound for pound driving cars in the world, across all their model lines. Most sport sedan comparison tests, BMW wins.

But this is autospies, and anything to do to create another flame war....lol

Incentives to lure customers from other brands does not serve the same purpose as incentives for every buyer. Audi offers minimal incentives and yet what they offer is only for loyal customers ($500~$1500 depending on what you trade in) or trade-ins for competitive brands. This is hardly the type of incetives BMW had for the ugly 7-series which would not sell as planned, so they gave incentives upwards of $7 grand per car. Toyota's current incentives are similar to what BMW had. They are desperate for sales. Hardly the case for Audi, or MB (I can't speak for other brands).

im not going to lie, i am a bmw fan, but i do like other car companies.
after driving a 330xi, m3, and then a 335xi all brand new, all over a 6 year period, i now have a Lexus IS-F..
it is an EXCELLENT car, but when im done with this lease, i plan on going back to bmw... i cant afford a porsche i want (911) ( cant have a boxter or cayman,cause of kids) until then, i really think bmw drives like no other car.

You guys are bing too hard on BMW. I'm holding out for a possible turbo,hybrid Isetta Ranchero Pickup with its exclusive foldout camper shell and circular bed. Oh did I mention it has 22 inch wheeels and gets 102 MPG and does 0-60 in 4.8 seconds.If that's not "joy" what is.

I don´t care about what the articles said. What I know is that there are a lot of very nice machines comming from BMW...3, m3, 5, m5, and others that I hate but I cant deny that the X6M is a great engineering achivement. BMW is very smart expanding the options as every other "smart" manufacturer is doing...For me Mercedes Benz does great prducts and my favorites are the AMGs...BMW is expanding their performance options as MB...and Audi will do the same (and as always Lexus will try to catch them)...just for money..BMW still the owner of the motto...The Ultimate Driving Machine....just haters won´t see that.

It seems most people posting comments here did not even read the article on The Autoextremist. BMW fans are quick to defend BMW but are not responding to what the article is saying. Here's an excerpt for the lazy:

"But BMW is forgetting one very pivotal thing here: People can attach “joy” to anything in life, even the simple, most mundane things. And that’s fine, man, as The Dude would say.

But at one point lusting after a BMW was something special. It was all about desire - a craving for the “ultimate” in mechanical art, at least as practiced by the zealots in Bavaria - and there was only one place you could quench that thirst.

Unfortunately for BMW that’s no longer true. Because they’ve lost their way trying to please everybody and because there’s a stronger, tougher competitor out there that’s capturing the hearts and minds of enthusiasts across the country. The same enthusiasts, as a matter of fact, who once lusted after BMW.

......And Audi used its unwavering commitment to its Le Mans-winning racing program as a beacon for its entire organization, urging designers and engineers to dig deeper and to leave no detail to chance and to execute with a clarity and a focused consistency in their pursuit of automotive greatness.

The result? Machines that speak with their bold designs, notable innovations, flawless detailing and a mechanical goodness that’s compelling to both enthusiasts with demanding standards and consumers who can just appreciate a job well done.

And there’s one more thing about Audi’s success that’s undeniable, too, and that is that the machines brim with passion and a distinct point of view (read Peter’s review of the sensational R8 in this week’s “On the Table” – Ed.).

No, they’re not for everyone and that’s exactly the point here. Despite its burgeoning success Audi still marches to a different drummer, and they’re not the least bit interested in being “all things to all people,” and I find that to be refreshing, especially given where BMW has landed with its “Joy” campaign."

"Machines that speak with their bold designs"

Have you seen the new A8. The only "bold" design Audi had in the last ten years is the R8.

I'll turn the question back to you. Have YOU seen the new A8?

As Audi CEO said, Audi is not doing the BMW drivingdynamics thing, we (Audi) are staying true to our sporting image. he went on to say how Audi will use fuel efficient technology but not make it the priority or driving theme of its cars. The e-tron concepts are exactly what he was talking about... awesome looking sports cars (first) with eco-friendly power source (second). No compromises in driving dynamics. BMW wants to go FWD to please everyone. MB wants the minivan to please everyone too. This kind of stuff dilutes their focus. A FWD is not really an "ultimate driving machine" but I guess BMW is there for the profits (this sounds like what Toyota has done... they are a pro-environment car company when they talk Prius, yet they make one of the most polluting trucks on the market and for those customers, Toyota's other face is the tough and mean ... forget the environment. Pure Hypocracy).

Can't compare Audi to BMW in terms of what somebody would desire, no matter what this author tries to say.

The ultimate driving machine is any car you can afford that puts a smile on your face. All the others are ultimately also rans or ultimately out of reach. As for BMW's (and I own and love one) it is going way off course but why do they care when profits are up and 80% of the owners think the 1 series is front wheel drive. Why engineer a superior driving machine when the vast majority of your owners don't even know which wheels are driving the car. Sad..very,very sad for us enthusiasts.

Just because they said they might build a small front drive car doesn't mean they lost their way. They are still building the best driving premium cars around. The sky isn't falling.

The sky is not falling, but don't sell me on how great apples taste when you are also offering oranges. BMW has a chance to make things right - as much as I dislike the image of BMW - and not fall in the footsteps of what Toyota has done, create a different face and image for every market. They pollute on one side, yet their pro-environment on another, the mass market yet their exclusive. Its the old "cheap but expensive" joke.

The article was probably written before the introduction of the Audi A1. Maybe not. The thing is, because BMW is on top currently, they get all the attention. People complain about them offering too many products that are "unpure". But is that the truth? I don't think so. Look at the X6 for example. The TT V8 version embarrasses the Porsche Cayenne GTS on the track. The X5 still remains one of the best handling SUVs out there. I don't think BMW is diluting the brand... I think BMW is offering "Joy" and the "Ultimate Driving Machine" for more people who maybe can't enjoy "pure" BMWs because of many factors such as having a big family or living in a terrain that requires an SUV. And even these "unpure" cars are still designed and engineered in passion, using top quality materials and great attention to details. Just take a look at the 5GT. The interior is unmatched for the price range.

The author also probably forgot that unlike Audi, BMW has to create their own parts and use their own money to make money. Audi has VW to back them up. They don't need much expanding, and they save a lot of costs by parts sharing. They can live while staying focused.

I also forgot to add that making these "unpure" cars are actually good for us enthusiasts. Why? Because it will give them more money to get more innovative in the "pure" cars ;)

Catering to soccer moms and big families IS DILUTING the brand image, or at least its phrase "The Ultimate Driving Machine". I can't see how the "ultimate driving machine" theme can align with moms and babies, or carrying groceries, or pulling a boat, or hauling cargo. You are fooling yourself if you believe these things have commonality. You are forcing yourself to believe it does. Go back to BMW roots and you'll see no SUVs, no minivans or "GTs" or FWDs, all you will find are sporty cars and sports cars. In this respect I think the article hits it right on.
Audi is very similar yet they have overcome the temptation to build everything for everyone. I also like MB but they also are going out of their way to please everyone with that ugly looking minivan... YES, IT IS A MINIVAN! MB takes it one step further, they want to be the best at two conflicting categories: luxury and sport. YOu can not be the best at both but you can compromise at both which is what they are doing now.

BMW may have diluted its claim to being the ultimate driving machine, but Audi certainly hasn't taken over in this regard. Audi makes very nice cars but there are only two true luxury marques and those are MB and BMW. Audi still has too many VW strings attached.

Hardly the case. Worldwide sales Audi is on par with MB and surpassing them. They've outsold BMW in many categories in Germany as well. The A6 is leading sales worldwide in its class (2009), etc, etc. Audi is steadily and consistently taking market share away from BMW. The perception might be different, but it always lags reality by a few years.

To me, "driving" is not what you do every day... That's commuting. As a commuter car, BMW is just fine. However, so is Lexus, Benz, Chevrolet... just about everything.

Now for a DRIVING car, I would have to agree on the EVO/STI and possibly add most of the more modern LOTUS lineup. The Z06 is also a very capable track/hooligan car as well, plus the bellow of a 7-liter V8 is intoxicating. Those are about it for my budget that I have actually driven. I'm sure there are many other vehicles I could add to this list as well, but my somewhat limited experience in higher-end cars really limits what I can type. I refuse to be the typical Autospies "SPEW-POSTER." :)

Although I agree that BMW is as many are saying "diluting their brand image" somewhat by offering vehicles such as the 5 series GT and X6, I still feel that they make excellent cars and by far have some of the best engines and handling cars in the world. We can't dent that they are and have been the benchmark for other luxury cars with sporting pretensions. Without cars like the M3 and M5, we wouldn't have the current CTS and V series, a much more competitive AMG division, and Audi's S and RS series. I have driven vehicles by all of these automakers and still keep coming back to BMW. Do have quibbles with their design philosophy? Of course! Do I have similar issues with Audi's and Merecedes design? Yes. Do all of these brands have issues with quality control, reliability, and their respective service departments? Of course. Don't get me wrong. I have owned products from all of these automaker and no one is perfect. The 3-series was and still is the best car out there in terms of driving dynamics, and the M3 you just can't beat. The service is good, but there are issues with breakdowns. Audi's ovrall are good cars, but I don't like the direction of their interiors as of late and their design has become somewhat dated and predictable (aside from the R8, of course). Service in my opinion has sucked, but that's what happens when VW is your parent company. MB has probably the greatest SUV overall in terms of luxury and power in the GL class. Yes, I owned one, and would never had gotten rid of it if gas hadn't exceeded $4 per gallon in 2008 (the Lexus RX 400h I replaced it with is great on gas mileage but just can't compare otherwise), but they have design issues as well. NONE of these automakers are perfect, but I don't think any of them is being untrue to their original goals. Everyone has the right to expand their lineup to offer more variety and attract more consumers. Making the GT and X5/X6/M, though not necessarily my cup of tea, doesn't change the fact that BMW's claim to the Ultimate Driving Machine is a valid one and that everyone continues to chase BMW to try to find that magic combination