SURPRISE! EVO Review Calls 2011 Audi RS5 No M3 Beater, Disappointing And Far From Perfect!

i dont think audis performance divison will ever be in par with BMW'S M

Not I've driven RS4 or 5, but you do know Chris owns an M3....

I'm curious as to why he says about the M3, "and – I have to assume - nothing like as relaxing to live with" when he owns one? Also a little unclear as to which "turbocharged" S4 he's referring?

As an Audi fan, I take no offense to this review. He more or less describes the improved, but still Audi-like driving character of the RS5. Given the current automotive atmosphere and Audi's general satisfaction appealing to practical enthusiasts rather than hard-core ones, I didn't think it was going to be a beast. Doesn't have to beat the old M3 for me to like it and, honestly, I wonder if the new M3 will beat the old one by much.

Audi R8 > every car BMW ever produced since its inception...

"Audi R8 > every car BMW ever produced since its inception..."

i would choose an urquattro over an r8 anyday, let alone a csl, 507, m1 and so on

Chris is pretty frank with what he says. The GTR in his comparison clearly outclassed his M3 in the test but he still owns one. He seems to be less of a badgewhore like Jeremy Clarkson, who doesn't like Porsche's but more of Ferrari's. And Hamster likes Porsche's whereas Captain Slow likes practicality. Chris seems to be a mixture of those three.

top gear hosts are not to be taken seriously..they're just entertainers..i'm pretty sure they're not to serious about some of the claims they make either, it's all for the sake of entertainment

THEMAN I believe the new M3 GTS, is quicker then the R8. It laps the ring in 7:39 compared to 7:45-7:50 for the R8 v10. FYI.

^ +1

I believe Chris Harris is very credible, iv always enjoyed his car reviews he says "A BMW M3 is sharper, faster, far more interactive" I guess the RS5 is more of a GT, more in line with the C63.

me too, but it's a review not a test...

so did they test them as far as performance, last test I saw with him had a drag in the rain with the R8 V10, GTR & 911T, lets just say it wasn't scientific....

Scientific enough to know the 911 turbo and GTR will smoke the R8 V10.

easy boy, just sayin'

M3 vs RS5 test would be nice to see obviously...

Did Chris Harris do a comparison test between the BMW M3 and Audi RS5? NO!

Who cares what Chris Harris thinks when he didn't even test the BMW M3 and Audi RS5 at the same time and under the same conditions. This is just Chris Harris' opinion of the RS5 based on the initial drive.

I'll wait for a proper comparison test that tests acceleration, handling, braking, slalom etc.

I'm willing to bet the Audi RS5 might even sneak out a win...

He owns an M3, so he tested it when he drove to work, then tested the RS5 at work. That's a back to back comparison if you ask me. Personally I would take the M3 it just does everything right.

http://m.caranddriver.com/site?t=JGL.W.p87s8jZ4qOOLsa1Q&sid=caranddriver

between the review in this thread, the one I posted previously, and the link above, that's three lukewarm tests of the RS5, all three of which hinting the three year old M3 is a superior driving utensil. The brand new (and more expensive) RS5 shouldn't be "sneaking out" a win against a three year old, cheaper M3 GermanNut. It should be flat out winning. But it's not doing either.

I ama little surprised Audi still has not been able to come close to the BMWs where it counts most with enthusiasts.

Why? Do you think there is no market for cars that don't meet "enthusiasts" needs or that a performance car is without compromises? This is purely a marketing decision. Their racing programs indicate that they know how to build a good track car so there's no reason to think they are incapable of translating it to a production car. It's just that there are people out there who have no interest in tossing a car around a track and Audi serves that market. Why should they try to offer the same experience as BMW?

If it's "far from perfect," then why give it a 4 out of 5 stars?

"Far from perfect" why give it 4 out of 5 stars?

Exactly.......

This mini-review seems a bit off. We'll have to wait for the full road test to be sure.

Note to self.... This is the Video of Chris Harris Testing uhh Drifting the B8 S4 Avant or trying too.
He obviously is still learning how to properly drive the Quattro system, thus we need not trust his report.
He is a RWD kind of guy and a AWD Student. Students should not be our references.

http://www.feras.co.uk/can-you-make-an-audi-estate-oversteer-drivers-republic/

or

http://vodpod.com/watch/589984-audi-sport-quattro-rallye

Your comment sums up what I and quite a few others have been thinking about Chris Harris.

He is a very good driver and reviewer, yet it seems he has a natural preference for RWD vehicles and has not figured out how to get the best out of AWD Drivetrains.

Quite similar to those Great Reviewers who just cannot get comfortable with Flappy Paddle Gearboxes and so keep Downgrading their effectiveness or Superiority*.

* Alleged Superiority.

"But does it really feel like the rear axle is doing more than the front, like a GT-R? Of course it doesn’t, it’s an Audi."

That's why Nissan's AWD is the best of its kind, because it can drive like an RWD!

The Audi fans are so funny the RS5 gets a bad review, and all of a sudden source is not credible. lol what a joke. And if it received a good review this would have been good as gold to G-nut, he would have posted it with some ridiculous title.

The first drive tests of it have gone the same way the RS5 isnt quite as communicative or sharp as the M3, the reviews for the RS6 go the same way they have more power but arent any faster and the BMW is the better drivers car. Either way I'm glad to see the RS5 the better the competition the better this segment will have to get forcing the M3 to be even better next go round. The RS cars I will say especially with the RS6 versus M5 I would say the 6 is the better looking car styling wise not sold on all the bling bits on the RS5 though it would look better without the silver pieces I really dont think any review Ive read has been bad they are just saying its not as good as the M3 same with other new high end Audis well the A8 and RS6 in particular.

To be honest, it is no Great Shame to come in Behind the M3 in Feedback and Precision.

If it came in behind the M3 on Everything from Outright Accel to Comfort to Looks, then it would be time to call a meeting at Quattro GMBH.

From what i gather the RS5 is more of a GT which is actually very good as it offers people a choice { I know I would take the RS5 over the M3 because I prefer the AWD }

This is not to say the M3 is Inferior. I just think that if you live in areas that have quite interesting weather patterns and you go from perfect to Wet and Slippery on a daily basis then the RS would be your natural choice over the M.

Of course this is Just my Opinion.

Well, I think the Audi fans were just expecting too much. We are talking about competing with the M3 here. The best car BMW makes for handling.

Not surprised. Based on reviews in the past regarding the 335i and S5 and Edmunds, C&D and now Evo's "first drives" of the RS5, it appears the the M3 is still the yardstick just like the 335i is in its segment....for less money than the Audi equivalent.
So, since the street version BMW beats the high performance Audi,
335i > S5
it makes sense that the high performace BMW beats the super-high performace Audi,
M3 > RS5

Looks like Audi needs an RRS5

The truth is that it's difficult to show people whats outside their references.
Ex AWD evaluated by engineers and passed on by all for rallye racing until Audi showed up in and bettered the race winners time by over 9 minutes the first time out. Now all WRC Rallye is AWD

Ex 2 AWD Audi arrived with AWD and + 200 lbs of weight won numerous champiomships and 7 in 1996 only to be banned in 1997 they called it an Unfair Advantage That says it!

AWD offers the best control starting stopping etc.
What car still uses less than all 4 wheehs to stop...none
The rest is there for teaching the others.

Most of you have never had the opportunity to drive multiple cars back to back with professional drivers, trust me it changes perspectives.
You have to review history and the driver has to know how to drive AWD it's not the same as rear

No one is questioning the benefits or lack of them that an AWD system offers. And you certainly do not need a class, to learn how to drive quattro like you suggested in your other post. If anything its more challenging to drive a rwd car very fast, but its also more rewarding. The M3 is more of a sports car, it offers a more focused driving experience, nimble, responsive, and extremely fast in the right hands. Thats what this segment (that BMW created) is about, making a luxury sedan, behave like a sports car. The Audi interpretation is a fast GT that gets you from point a to b with little drama. Its not a bad thing, but its no M3. Thats how it should be, Audi shouldn't try and be something they are not, instead they need to make there own niche.

The RS5 Loses? I guess it depends what you use them for. If you need a Chunky looking, heavy, AWD car, that is more livable than an M3 you can have the Audi. If you want a much sharper driving tool that's almost as livable as an Audi RS5, get the M3.

This is the same Argument that occurred when comparisons between the Continental GT & DB9

Both offered different driving experiences, some like me preferred the GT's way of Motoring, others prefer the DB9.

Same here with the RS5 & M3, Different Total Packages, so no Winers or Loosers.

I will call it now, the RS5 will defeat the BMW M3 in a proper comparison test. Just look to the BMW 335i for evidence.

The BMW 335i outhandles the new Audi S4, but the Audi S4 is the better overall car and that is precisely why the Audi S4 has defeated the BMW 335i in at least 5 comparison tests in all the major publications incuding MotorTrend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile Magazine, Edmunds Insideline etc.. It is more luxurious, better-designed inside and out, has great handling, and enormous capabilities with respect to its chassis and drivetrain.

Sure the Audi RS5 might get outhandled by the BMW M3, but at the end of the day the RS5 is the better overall car. It is more luxurious, better-designed inside and out, has excellent and exploitable handing, and enormous capabilities with regards to its chassis and drivetrain.

"Sure the Audi RS5 might get outhandled by the BMW M3, but at the end of the day the RS5 is the better overall car. "

- Then why doesn't the article say that?

"It’s nothing like as characterful as the last RS4, and for all its technical brilliance it lacks roll-on performance – ironically just the type that the turbocharged S4 offers."

The S4 and 335 comparisons that you desperately cling to are a mismatch. The S4 is far more performance oriented and sells in limited numbers compared to the 335 which is more mainstream, and represents the top of the standard 3 series lineup. S4 vs 335is will be a even match-up. Plus the the 335 has defeated the S5 on a number of occasions.

"Sure the Audi RS5 might get outhandled by the BMW M3, but at the end of the day the RS5 is the better overall car. It is more luxurious, better-designed inside and out, has excellent and exploitable handing, and enormous capabilities with regards to its chassis and drivetrain."

This segment is about performance, and if you think the RS5 will win because it is more luxurious,and fast but lacks character, then your mistaken. If you want luxury get the standard A5.and im not saying the M3 isn't luxurious because it also is.

I believe the M3 is a better over all car. In concept its exactly what it sets out to be. The benchmark in driving dynamics. It laps the ring within a second of the V8 R8...and offers all the luxuries of the RS5. So Audi needs two cars to do the job of the M3(and they both cost 10-30K more!!). Plus there is the new performance package that's available on the M3 that makes it even sharper, and quicker around the track.

I dont get why all you post are so bias you breathe and live Audi. For one I dont care what any review or you say in regards to the S4 versus 335i the S4 first off wins because of subjective areas. These reviews you keep saying that say the S4 is the better OVERALL car is wrong. Each of those reviews say the 335i is the better performance car, in a comparison of performance luxury sedans the fact the best performance car didnt win is a bit odd and my point still remains the S4 wins are a bunch of hoopla. Am I saying the S4 is a bad car no but its not a better "performance luxury sedan than the 335i." Not to mention for the price of an M3 sedan, ISF, or C63 it really should perform on par with those cars instead of getting reviews that say the 335i not th 335is mind you is the better performance car....Not to mention the 335i has beaten the S5 on more than one occasion

carE10, that was perhaps the most well put, thought out posting I've ever read on Autospies.com. Unfortunately it was wasted replying to GermanNut. But if there was a +10 button, I'd click it for you.

Because the article is based on someone's opinion and not on the results of a properly conducted test.

Do you have test results to back up your opinions about the RS5?

No, I don't have test results to back up my opinions about the RS5.

More importantly, does Chris Harris have test results to back up his opinions of the M3's superiorty?? NO!!

Why are you comparing the 335i to the S5? The S5 is outdated in terms of both its engine and its technology. The S5 uses Audi's old, 354 horsepower V8. That engine is heavier, less fuel-efficient, and not as nimble as the S4's 333 horsepower, supercharged V6. Furthermore, the S5 never had Audi's Drive Select or Sport Differential systems that are offered on the S4.

Like I said, the RS5, in my opinion, will defeat the BMW M3 when a proper comparison test is done between the two cars. The RS5 may not outhandle the M3, but it will be the better overall car, which will be enough for it to win.

Maybe, bmwdrvr, BMW's interpretation of "performance-luxury sport sedan" is too biased towards the performance aspect whereas the Audi S4 has a better balance of performance and luxury. How are the S4's more than 5 wins over the 335i all of the sudden a bunch of hoopla? Should the best performance-oriented car win just because you say so, bmwdrvr? What about the luxury aspect of it? Why shouldn't the car that blends the performance and luxury components the best win the comparison test. Obviously, your belief of having the best performance-oriented car win the comparison test is not shared by the car magazines.

For that very same reason, the Audi RS5 will take down the BMW M3. The M3 maybe the gold standard when it comes to performance, but I can assure you the RS5 will certainly be plenty capable, but it will win the comparison test because it will combine better design, luxury, and accessibility of performance versus the M3.

you, sir, are ridiculous. Seriously.

The only thing ridiculous is the way Autospies and the BMW fanboys continuously defend the BMW brand and constantly try to bash the other German marques.

Breaking news BMW fanboys! IHS Global Insight, the world's most reliable and consistently accurate intelligence forecasting company, predicts that Audi is well on its way to becoming the world's best-selling premium luxury brand by 2015 when it wants to sell 1.5 million new vehicles per year.

Check it out:

http://www.ihsglobalinsight.com/SDA/SDADetail18534.htm

fantastic, here's your cookie. BTW, there are plenty of idiotic and annoying BMW fans on here, but don't delude yourself for a second into thinking you're different. You're the four ringed version of them.

I would take this car just for its looks alone.

Audi, second best? Hardly so...Just check www.audiusa.com to see how Audi has kicked BMW time and time again in the Car and Driver comparison tests which included the S4 over the 335i, A6 over the 535i, Q5 over the X3, and soon A8L over the 750Li. Let's not even mention the R8's many, many wins over Porsche's 911 Turbo.

Audi is clearly not making "second best" cars as evidenced by its huge success recently in the car magazine comparison tests.

Furthermore, Audi has been smart to use its magazine comparison test wins to its advantage when it comes to advertising. Most importantly, though, is the fact that customers around the world from the United States to China are finally realizing that Audi is building an overall better product when it comes to combining performance, luxury, design, and efficiency than both BMW and Mercedes-Benz.

Audi is not second-best, Audi is the best. It's just that consumers have been slow to realize this due to BMW's laser-like focus on performance. Audi has now combined BMW-like performance with unrivaled luxury and design. The results are obvious through the recent comparison test wins and enormous sales growth. This will translate into Audi becoming the world's best-selling premium car manufacturer in the world by 2015.

The BMW fans are continuously in denial. Audi plans to sell 100,000 A1s per year starting from May 2010. Sorry, the new 5-series won't manage that, not by a long margin.

Whoopdeedo, BMW also beat Audi in tons of comparison tests. If Audi's brand new models didn't beat BMW's four to seven year old, due to be replaced models that would be pretty sad. Well, actually it would be just like it is now for the RS5, the A4, the A5, the S5, the A6, the TT, etc.

You are ruining Audi for me, and I imagine many other people on here.

I couldn't have written this better myself GermanNut. Hey, bmwMotorsport, OMFG, I'm glad you brought up delusional because most BMW owners are living in delusion. You buy a car on status quo that is mechanically way behind in the times, turbos and SEFI. Oh wait a minute that have FSI on a couple of them, good job, it's about f^$(*&^ time. I'm just naming a couple of things to keep it short for Roulette above, he doesn't like to read a lot of words. It's tough to read a lot of words. Enjoy your BMW.

Anyway, let's be honest, faux leathers and wood trims on the base menu, and you think this is the illusion of luxury. This is delusional in its basic form. Check the definition. As for sales figures, reading evidently is also a delusion to BMW owners. I hate to break the news to the geniuses that own BMW's, your brand is loosing market share. The reason is that BMW's are not what they use to be, so get over it. Start dealing with your issues. You didn't go pro 20 years ago, so you bought a Bimmer. Times have changed, you haven't, deal with it. You really need to be on a psychiatric website discussing your issues not AutoSpies.

Listen (Audi), Audi doesn’t have to prove anything, it's doing it.

Roulette, of course sales figures matter. Look at Audi growing WAY faster than BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Audi's brand new models will stand the test of BMW's new 5-series, new 3-series and new 7-series. Audi's new cars are extremely compelling in their overall balance of design, performance, luxury, and efficiency.

You have long-ruined BMW for me, JRobUSC. I will be Audi's brand ambassador on Autospies and make every possible effort to make sure Audi's success is displayed proudly on Autospies. It is my hope that this success translates into enormous global sales growth, significantly higher revenue, and most importantly, extremely strong profit numbers for the Audi brand.

Audi is quite simply the best premium luxury carmaker in the world. BMW will soon realize how their narrow focus on performance and unsightly designs will cost them their title as the world's best selling premium car manufacturer and brand in the next 5 years.

"I will be Audi's brand ambassador on Autospies and make every possible effort to make sure Audi's success is displayed proudly on Autospies. It is my hope that this success translates into enormous global sales growth, significantly higher revenue, and most importantly, extremely strong profit numbers for the Audi brand."

Nice mission statement!

And they are going to grow on at the same rate forever!!!...im sure that's what you think. They are growing so fast because they were so much smaller.

"Audi is quite simply the best premium luxury carmaker in the world."

LOL. your delusional!!! but it works for you.

You misunderstand. I like BMW AND Audi. You don't. And for people like me who respect both, you're screwing over the brand you like with your buffoonery. You're like the South Park Prius drivers, but for Audi. Seriously, you are hurting your brand.

Also GermanNut, you just can't fix stupid. You would have better luck talking about quantum physics to these BMW owners than the success of Audi. They just won't understand either one. Unlike BMW and Peugeot, keep trying until you win.

I like both cars but if I have to choose between the two, I would go with the new Audi RS5 coupe. In my opinion I think it just look way better than the BMW M3 coupe. Plus, it more rare where I live in Orange County, CA.

No, JRobUSC, as I said before, Audi needs to be given the credit it deserves. If Autospies won't give Audi that recognition, I will. Just look at the headline of this article as a perfect example of Autospies bashing Audi. There was absolutely no reason for Autospies to degrade Audi in the article based on Chris Harris' personal opinion. However, when you are getting paid by BMW to promote their brand over others, you have no choice but to be obedient to the corporate bosses at BMW who are paying you handsome sums of money.

Audis are just glorified VWs. There I said it! If it weren't for their attractive headlights, they'll just be like an Opel.

first i would like to say that i like BOTH audi and bmw even though i drive a m3 I love the a/s/rs 5 looks both inside and out. My problem with audi is that what they want price wise for these cars you can cross shop and get a better buy. Lets face it as beautiful as the rs5 is, its not beating the 4 year old performance of the m3(which will be on its way out if the rs5 comes to the US)Now by reading the article maybe its slightly better maybe slightly worse depending on your Opinion and what fan you are but for my money and a brand new desing Audi should be far and a way beating the m3 (for the time being) until the new m3 comes out. Then bmw back on top with their new design, then audi beats the m3 with the next rs5. bottom line is new design should win and in this case it does not.

Marmite anyone?!

I've owned both an M3 and an RS4 (I now drive a Carrera 4s). Both are beautifully made and suited different needs. For pure driving pleasure the M3 wins everytime, but as soon as it rains heavy or gets icy - get out of the way for the Audi for effortless speed. It's horses for courses and both suit different courses considerably better (hence the Porsche being a happy compromise). By the way - both customer services are poor, pay the money and still be treated poorly, delighted to say (and fortunate to do so), Porsche are a million miles ahead!