How Long Is It Going To Take Infiniti To Become The First Legitimate Challenger To The Germans?

If they listen to Renault then they will get there a lot faster!

re "First Legitimate Challenger To The Germans" -- It appears, at least in North America, that title has been taken by Lexus.

Sales is nothing other than sales.

Not really a measure of any metric other than selling a product to a customer.

He's not talking about sales. Lexus's LFA is a showpiece those 3 German usual suspects cannot compete in terms of technology. Infiniti can easily rebadge (low-tech) GT-R, which those 3 cannot catch up either. Forget about HONDA, they are lost.

In fact I think AUDI will dethrone BMW one day.... Forget MB, it'll be dead last.

Agent 009 is right. Are you all saying Ferrari isnt a good sports car because they don't sell as many cars a year as suzuki?

2ndbimmer- see the point. If sales were an important metric to quality or performance, then a Toyota Corolla would be a better sportscar than a Ferrari. After all they sell more Escorts, than any Ferrari

LOL.... if sale is not part of the point, I don't see the reason BMW builds 1 series, etc, meanwhile trying to beat Merceds for #1 seller. Are those for social welfare? Well then keep it coming! I want some -1 series!

are you on crack?? comparing Ferrari sales to suzuki and corolla? Gee I don't know maybe the fact that one costs 20 times more than the other has something to do with the sales numbers. Is your braindead little self saying that MB or BMW costs 20 times more than Lexus? Not sure what planet you're from, but on this one, and in this country, pretty much everyone who purchases a Lexus can also afford a slightly more expensive MB or BMW.

Now is a good chance to Infinity when toyota name is like you refer to a lethal disease lol lol and everyday they are into a worse conditions because the low quality of their product and even worse to lie to toyota customers and sale defectives cars.

How many years you got?

Didn't the last gen G sedan best the 3 series in many of the trade rags? I have an 06 sedan with 72k on it. So far it has had no issues (save for a new set of tires) and it still rides like new! I drove the same year BMW and it didn't impress for 6k more with the same options

well based on its low cost, low quality interior compared to anything in the class hell the camry, and accord shamed the interior of the G as did many cheaper cars including economy cars. The first G was a nice looking car, with great performance, that was neither luxurious nor refined and ultimately ill be the only one to say FAILED as a true BMW competitor because it simply wasnt a luxury car it was a 4 door Z and not much else it was completely unrefined and the silver paint NOT ALUMINUM fades horribly that was on the dash

I will agree though it is alot less on maintenance and is a more carefree car than a BMW, they just have to get the luxury part of the performance luxury category and they should fair better.

I disagree. Having lived with the interior of the 06 g35 for almost 5 years now, I can honestly say there is nothing wrong with it. I have been in a 2007 Camary, as with all toyota interiors, lexus included, they apply the same cheap plastic philosophy. Compared to BMW, I will only give you the lack of cheap plastic as an advantage to BMW. The interior layout and how the parts are put together are not better in the BMW. When somone sits in my car, do they look at my car any different because the plastic doesn't quite feel right? Not a chance. Most of your average public sits in my car and say, "wow, this feels like a BMW". That did in fact happen a few times with some close friends. My reply, it's not a BMW and I saved 6k and got a car with better performance. Now 4.5 years later, I've saved even more due to the fact that Nissan reliablity was built into the car. 70k miles and all I have had to do is change the tires. The discrepancy over the type of plastic used in the G vs the BMW is worth the money I saved. I also have to agree with it being a 4 door Z (think 1983 Maxima). I being a Z lover, love the fact that I can carry my family around in this 4 door Z.

The problem with the G37 is the back seat is snug, and the packaging not as good as the 3 series.

The M37/M56 is good

The SUV's should all be destroyed and restyled by Pininfarina ASAP

Maybe its just me but Infiniti has a long way to go from prestige stand point Cadillac is ahead of Infiniti it has WAY more brand cache. Not to mention the next closest to the germans is Jaguar x-type and s-type pulling the brand down or not the Jaguar nameplate is the only car company that isnt in the 4 typically mentioned that really can be placed in the same league as Mercedes and BMW the 2 brands especially Mercedes were actually worried when Jaguar was going to expand its nameplate (of course they came out with crap in the form the x and s). Infiniti has a long way to go to get there and from reviews of the M its interior is among the best if not class leading but overall it just isnt as refined.

They already have, the G goes head to head with the 3 and wins and loses some, can't win them all. The new M will do well against the 5, so they already there.

With the G/M models, Infiniti by passed Lexus' IS/GS models. All Infiniti needs now is a flagship sedan that goes toe to toe with the LS. Or maybe they can just kill the LS by introducing their own true premium sport sedan based on the GT-R.

My two thumps up for Infiniti and for the good cars they're coming up with.

Infiniti has a long way to go before their products reach the level of refinement that the Germans have achieved. This applies to their drivetrains as well as their fit and finish.

Have some of you guys been in an Infiniti lately? The interior trim in the FX, EX and new M is as good as most anything from BMW or anyone else. The G and QX are the two products that lag in this department. The next QX looks to have a stunning interior.

They entered Europe last year.

me being a true Nissan/Infiniti fan i will say that Infiniti has great products but still no where near Mercedes and BMW. But with that, Mercedes and BMW has been doing what they have been doing for a lot longer! Give Infiniti one more generation of their current cars and maybe people will really start paying attention.

Agree. I think infiniti has a long way to go when it comes to competing with the Euros. Mercedes and the Bimmers are top notch. Don't get me wrong, Infiniti has produced fine cars like their new M.

While the new M56 is a gorgeous car it has two probs that will affect it's sales/prestige and thus affect Infiniti as a whole.

After checking it out-the I found it costs nearly as much as a new F10 550i but does not have quite the interior quality/options/features of the Bimmer. No doubt it is a challenger, but IMHO it comes up short over the new F10.

It has been 21 years so far. Not exactly happening quickly.

Infinity.

Maybe faster if they stop making such fugly vehicles. They are only surpasses in fugliness by their parent company.

Lexus already challenges the Germans for luxury. With the performance "F" division moving ahead, it won't be long before they have the Germans by the short hairs there too.
Infiniti has a long way to go just to catch-up with Lexus, let alone BMW or Mercedes.

see thats point and Ive been saying everyone of these Infiniti fans is focusing on performance that doesnt win luxury car sales im sorry it doesnt. They need to work on refinement and luxury as well. Loud exhaust and big engines with high horsepower appeal to a certain crowd but if they want to to a luxury car sales list and stop losing sales to uhm everyone they need to work on making LUXURY cars. Making faster cars wont help them, the reviews of the M speak highly of its desighn and interior quality(which is a phenomenal improvement and the mags agree based on the last one) but they all say it still lacks refinement its exhaust are loud, its ride is choppy, and not to mention its running with the E class toe to toe on price yet its the underdog. THis current generation of Infinitis is lightyears ahead ofthe first try as far as quality but if you want to sell LUXURY cars you have to make them not just focus on performance let the Z and GTR focus solely on performance Infiniti is the step up brand, and for those who buy them. Most of these "so called" enthusiasts or wannabes arent buying cars, the 328i is the best seller at BMW yet they make a 335i competitor(that still misses the mark) and is so focused on performance it drives like a 4 door z....

Infiniti needs to build a proper flagship sedan. I think they have a good low to mid range now. They have that full size SUV as well. So what they need to do is increase the quality control to ensure the best materials are used. They have potential. A lot more than Acura. Acura has the quality build to compete with Infiniti but their beaked cars are doomed and design philosophy went down the drain. Infiniti's looking unique these days and it's either you like it or you don't.

I think Infiniti need a Lexus LS, BMW 7-Series, MB S-class and Audi A8 to be taken more seriously. And at the same time, they need to have a BMW M3, MB C-Class AMG63, Audi RS4 or now RS5 and Lexus IS-F competitor.

And they need to make the quality of their better, especially the interior of the G37 coupe. I can only common that because I have been searching for a G35/G37 coupe in Ivory Pearl and Black. I notice the interior is showing wearing on the 2008 model.

Other than that, I think they're doing a really goood job.

A new product planner, a new designer, and a guy who knows how to tune the damping rate right.

If they keep on what they're doing, give it 10 years. Remember, it has been less than ten years since they have started putting out good product again. The turn around all started with the first gen G in 2003. It takes time to build a brand.

I'll start a larger fire and say this:

"Wasn't Lexus already the first?"

OOOooooooooh. Now let's see the deboosting and flames.

They also need smaller engines.. and more refined engines.
Their V6 is excellent, but getting dated as it is rough, coarse and sucks on gas mileage...
The EX is well... hard to classify it.. it wants to be a SUV but it has no ground clearance and cannot even tow anything...
The new FX is ugly looking as the old one was just gorgeous...
The G is nice but a little too bland.
What is up with the big ass antenna on the trunk of the G convertible???
Seriously???
None of the other manufacturers have antennas that show naymore..

a very long time

i bet alot of you guys still look in the mirror at yourself and still see the 25 year old athelete you once were. The reality is that you are now over weight, bald, and shorter than you used to be.

Your views on Infiniti compared to BMW is the same thing.. you see the old differences, and maybe you deep down want BMW to always be the best. Maybe since its your first strong love of a car or something, I dont know ??

i think if you really look at Inifiti you will be suprized. Try using the nav system on the bmw, or the voice comands.. Look at the real level of equipment you get on the Infiniti over the BMW and the bmw is usually 5-8k more expensive for equal performance.. as in dont compare the 328xi to a G37x (the g is still less money)

anyway just my 2 cents

Well said.

As owner of G & 3, I can agree to your first paragraph, but not the last sentence. BMW still feels more button down, and more tossable with better suspension and weight distribution. INFINITI definitely can catch up, but everything takes time....

I think Infiniti would be there in one production life cycle(around 5 years). I mean next EX35, G and Q(FX and new M already matches or better than competitors) would be there with respective rivals from Top 3 Germans and Lexus.
Only one weak point is all new QX56's design, i am sure it is very competitive in all other categories. Infiniti can't afford to come up with such controversial designs as it is still growing and moving upwards.

JUGNU

IMO and this from an Infiniti fan, they need a flagship. By flaghsip I mean a no holds barred, everything but the kitchen sink, flagship sedan. I rate their build quality as excellent but honestly, the quality of the materials they use is maybe 1 step below that of the Germans, it should be as they are more affordable cars across the board.

If they truly want to compete they must abandon the best value for your money image and adopt the best car PERIOD image. Best interior materials, best handling, best braking, best fit and finish, etc. People pay extra for the Germans because true or not they are advertised as some of the best cars you can buy and people with that kind of money to spend want the absolute best. Hell it's why I leased a 7 series for 4 years and put less than 40K on it. I could have gotten a Maxima that would have more than met my needs, but at that time I wanted what I thought was the best....