Boldly Going Back To Where They Shouldn't Ever Have Been? $85K Volkswagen Phaeton Coming Back To US

VW execs need to stay away from the hashish

i am curious who will buy it..

I think they think they're trying to present a Lexus-type offering--value-oriented luxury. The problem, of course, is the badge. Lexus had a clean slate (at least to those willing to ignore the Toyota roots) so this was a bit easier. Most likely, though, I think they have foolishly been inspired by Hyundai's rebirth from a purveyor of unreliable economy cars to a quasi-luxury player. It would only work if they improved their reputation for reliability as this is important to those seeking value.

well the only car that it can compare to is the Hyundai EQUUS so I think they are trying to go after HYUNDAI buyers if anything and both cars are around the same price but I would bet money that the Hyundai will fully loaded for 70k-80k and the VW will probably be 80k standard no options.

Don't forget that Hyundai has proved that a $50K+ car can be sold in this market. Now if the Phaeton slots in between the Genesis and the Equus, they might pick up some sales.

No doubt the typical consumer in the US is a bit more educated than before and realizes that these cars might fit better than a luxury line.

I agree with AlleVier. If VW is interested in selling a new "High End" luxury vehicle, it needs to do what Nissan, Toyota and Hyundai did, create a new division within their company. Because to be honest the VW symbol does not convey luxury. It conveys thoughts of hippies in micro busses and beetles, beetles, beetles and more beetles.

Patrick - The Genesis has proved it but the Equus will see just how far they can go...

If they can move the Equus then get ready for a flurry of cross platform luxoboxes to appear at volume brands everywhere.

Until Hyundai breaks down how many Genesis sedans v coupes are being sold, the Genesis cannot be viewed as a hit. Anecdotally, I see more coupes than sedans in SF. (Mind you, the sedans are so bland, they can easily be missed.) And of course the coupe has nothing to do with the sedan.

@ thetruth01

I tend to disagree with this comment:

"(Mind you, the sedans are so bland, they can easily be missed.)"

The Genesis sedan looks like nothing else out there....of course everyone knows the design was borrowed from different cars that have previously been out but that car looks better than any other car in its class. and I am seeing a mixture of sedans and coupes where i am at more so the sedans. The sales figures should be pretty good because now that the genesis came out you dont have the VERY avaerage person making 30k-35k a year looking at these cars which was their main target in the beginning but now you have white and blue collar workers purchasing these cars. I wouldnt sleep on Hyundai because they have came a very long way and pretty much stood the test of time and survived and they have Kia also which is their basic cars that they can still sell to the average person. and if you think about it Hyundai can be is own Luxury entity because of Kia but that would be a hell of a buisness strategy if they can turn hyundai around into a luxury brand

"The Genesis sedan looks like nothing else out there....of course everyone knows the design was borrowed from different cars that have previously been out but that car looks better than any other car in its class."

How can you say it looks like nothing else when it cribs from everyone?

"and I am seeing a mixture of sedans and coupes where i am at more so the sedans."

Your anecdotal claim is good (or bad) as mine. Problem is only one thing is true, sales numbers. And Hyundai does not reveal them. They lie that the Genesis beats others in its class, but are using the sales of 2 completely separate vehicles from 2 separate classes to make this claim.

"The sales figures should be pretty good because now that the genesis came out you dont have the VERY avaerage person making 30k-35k a year looking at these cars which was their main target in the beginning but now you have white and blue collar workers purchasing these cars."

There is no way Hyundai targeted $30-35K wage earners. These buyers can barely afford Accents. And again, no sales figures have borne out your anecdotal evidence.

"and if you think about it Hyundai can be is own Luxury entity because of Kia but that would be a hell of a buisness strategy if they can turn hyundai around into a luxury brand"

Now you're just on crack.

@ thetruth01

"How can you say it looks like nothing else when it cribs from everyone?"

I did say that in my article but you worded it different. ok the genesis sedan took the S500 fascia, BMW 5 series/Q45 rear, Q45 dash, and for all we know the seats may also have been borrowed.....but who gives a damn Hyundai did what they did and made it work for them. just because its borrowed dont mean it doesnt look right. MB borrowed the shape of the MAYBACH and pretty much used it on their latest S550 and didnt make it distinct from their exotic brand. that S550 LITERALLY looks like a baby MAYBACH.

"Your anecdotal claim is good (or bad) as mine. Problem is only one thing is true, sales numbers. And Hyundai does not reveal them. They lie that the Genesis beats others in its class, but are using the sales of 2 completely separate vehicles from 2 separate classes to make this claim."

All I have to say is I dont beleive it until i see it

"There is no way Hyundai targeted $30-35K wage earners. These buyers can barely afford Accents. And again, no sales figures have borne out your anecdotal evidence."

If your making 35k a year and cant afford a 9k-13k car then you have issue. when I graduated college i bought a brand new 2000 Toyota Solara (which was $19,000 sticker) and I was making 36k a year paying rent in my own apartment. so like I said you got issues if you cant handle an accent.

"Now you're just on crack"

with that comment said........I said it can be its own luxury entity meaning it is a possibility its not written in stone so again your gettin it twisted.

No chance. No way. No how.

LOL!

VW/Audi need to keep there profit margin up, so they sell us the same car with 2 badges on it.

I guess if Hyundai can try and sale an overpriced car that no one wants, like the Genesis, why not VW.

VW want to same it for $85,000? LOL....ha..ha...ha... They must smokin some good shi$, may I have some too? = )

For $85,000 I can get a new Lexus LS, or slightly use BMW 7-Series, A8, MB S-class and prestige is included with those brand.

I do not beleive that VW will price the Phaeton at 80 grand. I predict that they will reprice it at 60 to 65 grand reasonably loaded.At 80 to 85 grand they would be back in direct competition with BMW,Audi,Mercedes,Jaguar etc. That was a previous failure. VW will not redo that path again rest assured. I think VW will go after the Genesis,Equis market.

So I think this article is incorrect in mentioning the figure of $85,000. It simply would not make any sense.

The $85K figure is correct

I believe your right mini the Phateon went sold here last didnt start at $85,000 I doubt they would increase the price when bringing it back it was about as much as what the LS is now if I remember correctly it started at high 60s

Can someone tell me where in the article VW actually said it would price it at 85 Grand. It is only the author of the article that mentioned 85 grand. Nobody from VW mentioned that figure.

Seriously, what idiot made the decission to bring this car back? Look at it, its the same as the old one, just ugly!!!!

Fool me once shame on you - Fool me twice - well you know the rest. Besides the already mentioned issues with this, the dealer network themselves is not even close to what you would get walking into an Audi/MB/BMW/Lexus/Acura etc dealership. The few times I've entered a VW dealership I've left as quickly as I could!

Generic front end...too dull for an $80K+ car.

Not a bad car, that was never the problem. VW is just hoping the first go-round was fluke I guess. Oh well, I'll be ready the get one dirt cheap on the used market once the sales fall through the floor again.

Is this not the very essence of Insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

Interesting that people are willing to pay $150k+ for a Bentley yet consider another vehicle with all the running gear and switches except body and Badge as Below Lexus in Quality and Presige.

Even have the temerity to compare it to a Hyundai Vehicle.

For the Morons on this site who did not know this. THE PHAETON IS 95% BENTLEY UNDER THE SKIN.

It doesn't matter whats under the skin. VW has always marketed itself as the "peoples car". They have done this for over 50 years! The most people will accept is it's a lower priced European car.I would like someone to show proof that a VW exec stated the Phaeton for the US will be 85 grand. I don't believe it. VW is simply not that stupid.If it bombed the 1st time due to it's pricing structure they could put a nude picture of Marilyn Monroe on the hood and it still would not sell at that price!

Mini22,

For the sake of VW stockholders, I hope you are right. The original Phaeton was technically fine, but a marketing flop - not just here in the U.S., but around the world.
The Volkswagen Group already has a perfectly good luxury marque - it's called Audi. It doesn't need another one.
If priced at $85,000, the Phaeton would cannibalize Audi A8 sales. Even if downsized and downpriced at $60,000, it would cannibalize Audi A6 sales.
Rather than wasting resources on a redundant luxury sedan, the Volkswagen division should improve the reliability, desirability and value of its mass-market models. Hyundai did it, why can't VW?
After all, "Volkswagen" does mean "people's car" in English.

Mini22

The "peoples car" mantra has been used for decades.

Absolutely retarded. Take the Routan back as well.

Agent 009 yes it has. Thats my point and thats why the Phaeton was a marketing flop at 85 grand. First if they bring it back I don't think they will bring the W12 engine back. I predict a turbo V6 as it's top performance power plant. Second VW will definately do the hybrid thing for it. Third VW has completely rethought the US market. The new Jetta shows where they are going. Making it's cars larger but less expensive by decontenting. I concede the Phaeton is a luxury car but since it left in 2006 Genesis has come on strong and the market now is getting quite crowded. Further you have Jaguar,Porsche Panamera BMW Audi Mercedes. If VW's philosophy for the US is to make bigger but less expensive cars then pricing the Phaeton to compete on the low end of the luxury market makes more sense, Thats why I'm predicting the car will be priced more like a Genesis or BMW 5 series.