They can engineer perfection but can Lexus engineer desire?

Ahhh the Scion Roof which is extremely noisy. Why keep selling the ES? Camry is nicer. Also love the new cars with all the plastic in under the hood. Takes 1/2 an hour to just see the damn motor...lol.

With a face only a mother could love... (the robot in the commercial :-) About as sexy as a Toyota Camry.

Yuck...that thing looks like a turd especially in that color.

if you take the logo off, what is it? it looks so vanilla.

Remind me again why anybody in their right mind would buy this crap when the new Camry looks exactly like it.

BTW, that is by far the ugliest engine bay I have ever seen. Why not just put a big black plastic cover over the entire thing?

What desire are u talking about.

Best selling luxury brand in America for the last 5-6 years.Still u think no body have a desire to own a Lexus.
Doing very well in Europe too and gaining reputation very fast around the world.

I have freinds and also know some people who wait for all that five years for the Lexus to make the all-new car.ANd when Lexus come up they quickly buy them and don't even think of checking or having a look at their competitors.

This is called as desire.Desire of a Car

Nowadays i see a lots and lots of New GS,RX and IS on the roads,Why because evertime Lexus's desire among coustomers increase and increase.
Generation by Generation,model by model,year by year.

And i think this graph of Desire of Lexus in peoples heart will never stop unlike the Mercedes or GM or Fords's....etc which stopped.

Beileve or not.
I speak the truth.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

What desire are u talking about.

Best selling luxury brand in America for the last 5-6 years.Still u think no body have a desire to own a Lexus.
Doing very well in Europe too and gaining reputation very fast around the world.

I have freinds and also know some people who wait for all that five years for the Lexus to make the all-new car.ANd when Lexus come up they quickly buy them and don't even think of checking or having a look at their competitors.

This is called as desire.Desire of a Car

Nowadays i see a lots and lots of New GS,RX and IS on the roads,Why because evertime Lexus's desire among coustomers increase and increase.
Generation by Generation,model by model,year by year.

And i think this graph of Desire of Lexus in peoples heart will never stop unlike the Mercedes or GM or Fords's....etc which stopped.

Beileve or not.
I speak the truth.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

You speak your truth, which = crap

Here is the truth:

"More than 80 percent of all cars retailed by Mercedes-Benz dealers are still on the road today, and three-quarters of these are out of warranty,"

AS IN ALL MB CARS EVER SOLD IN THE US. That is a remarkable statistic. There is no automobile manufacturer that can touch that.

Desire and heart are not words associated with the Lexus brand.

LEXUS IS AN APPLIANCE THAT GETS YOU FROM POINT A TO POINT B. It will never have the passion or the heritage of an MB.

If you really believe in what you preach you shouldn't call yourself a car enthusiast. My blender is 100% reliable, so what? There are more important things when it comes to a car than making it reliable. Plus I strongly believe that Lexus' reliability is the result of having owners that don't expect much from a car and the simplicity of their model lineup.

If you are just interested in getting from point A to B and don't care about the driving experience good for you.

I would expect a woman to make a statement like you, since most don't view a car the same way as men. As long as it gets them from A to B, it's a good car.

Just look at the wealthiest car enthusiast/collectors of the world. Sultan of Brunei, Jay Leno, etc. Then ask yourself how many Lexus' do they have in their garage? Why?

"Lexus allows people to be passionate about other things"

That statement pretty much sums up the whole Lexus experience and I can't see any true automobile enthusiast ever owning one.

Hey, don't look at me it came straight from a Lexus owner.

"Lexus allows people to be passionate about other things"

This statement is dead on. Lexus owners don't expect much from their cars as long as it gets them from A to B, it's all good.

Ben, Not only u don't have any idea plus u r a funny guy too.

Now tell me what's the use of mentioning Sultan of Brunei, Jay Leno, etc here
Do u even know who they r and what type of cars they collect.
Some companies like Rolls Royce,Aston martin,Ferrai..etc even make some special cars for His Majesty Sultan AL-Boulqi,which u or me haven't even seen.Just estimate their reach.
R u trying to tell me that Sultan buys all that common stuff like SL65 AMG or S 65 AMG that even an ordinary man can buy or lease.

And to remind u even Bill gates use to drive a LEXUS LS.But this statement alone don't have any value or waight.
So refrain from using such statements.

And u r saying Lexus crap...etc go checkout their april's sales or whatever previous months sales.And u will know or able to estimate their DESIRIBILTI.

And tell me which car do u drive and one more thing,i think u r the old CONTIROANE,maybe.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

Ben, Not only u don't have any idea plus u r a funny guy too.

Now tell me what's the use of mentioning Sultan of Brunei, Jay Leno, etc here
Do u even know who they r and what type of cars they collect.
Some companies like Rolls Royce,Aston martin,Ferrai..etc even make some special cars for His Majesty Sultan AL-Boulqi,which u or me haven't even seen.Just estimate their reach.
R u trying to tell me that Sultan buys all that common stuff like SL65 AMG or S 65 AMG that even an ordinary man can buy or lease.

And to remind u even Bill gates use to drive a LEXUS LS.But this statement alone don't have any value or waight.
So refrain from using such statements.

And u r saying Lexus crap...etc go checkout their april's sales or whatever previous months sales.And u will know or able to estimate their DESIRIBILTI.

And tell me which car do u drive and one more thing,i think u r the old CONTIROANE,maybe.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

Too much biases to take anyone serious so just take things with a grain of salt. Lexus has been climbing the charts, gained descent market share, and built a niche for itself. Toyota has done a great job marketing as well. What I suspect the article to convey is the fact that Lexus has been or was bland and souless, now can Lexus change that with their new line up. Will this line up stir more emotion then a customer just wanting a reliable car; instead of a more expensive German car? Can Lexus build a auto that makes people talk like the M5 or SL65? Time will tell...first Lexus needs to get some kind of Performance group for their line up. The upcoming LF-A is a start.

Hey, I got a simple question for you Toyota/Lexus fans. Why do the Germans outsell the Japanese in Japan?

The only place that Lexus does well is in the US. Do you realize how small the US is? What makes you guys so special? You act like you discovered something.

Please enlighten me. Why is it that the Japanese and the rest of the world look to the Germans when buying a REAL CAR?

Could it be because we as Americans don't give a rat’s ass about history, heritage, or anything else for that matter? As long as it's priced well gets me from A to B I'm good to go.

"Could it be because we as Americans don't give a rat’s ass about history, heritage, or anything else for that matter? As long as it's priced well gets me from A to B I'm good to go."

As far as I know, BMW, MB, etc., don't outsell Toyota in Japan. They may outsell Lexus in Japan since Lexus is new to Japan.

Also, what you have said is an oxymoron. You have said that Japanese CARE about history. Therefore, by caring about history and heritage, they buy a foreign GERMAN car and not a car from their homeland. Flawed. Your arguments lack wisdom to look at both sides of the coin and are quite often 'blind'. You only think in one direction and that doesn't help to boost credibility within your arguments.

I would say that BMW and MB have a following for several reasons, a few being their established foot in the performace sedan game, and another being their perceived prestige. The rest I don't have time to get into because I have to take my dog for a walk and get to sleep so that I can work tomorrow!

This argument can go on forever as long as there are diehards on either side that can't look at the advantages and disadvantages of both companies. Personally, I like Lexus more than BMW because the interiors of the new BMWs look very unappealing to me. In my opinion, Lexus does a nicer interior, which matters the most if you plan on enjoying the space in which you are driving. Anyways, I could go on and on about this.

Goodnight.

Did you do some reserach or did you just repeat what Mike said.

We are talking about Luxury cars.
Here is a little something for you:

"Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi -- have become more alluring to Japan's wealthiest car buyers. Those three brands alone sold a combined 96,000 vehicles in Japan last year, and overall imports account for about 60% of total sales of the highest-end cars costing more than $45,500."

60% sounds like the majority to me.

Some more for your entertaiment JT

"When young Tokyo professionals shop for wheels these days, chances are they'll drive right past the local Toyota dealership. While Japan's No. 1 auto maker still has half of Japan's high-end car market, affluent 30- and 40-somethings increasingly find its offerings dull and "old." The prestige cars in Japan these days are made by Mercedes-Benz (DCX ), BMW, and Audi. Combined Japanese sales of this formidable trio have grown 34% over the past decade.

The hearty appetite for fancy German metal has Toyota Motor Co. (TM ) spooked. "Higher-priced sedans are a traditional base of strength for Toyota," says Yasuhiko Fukatsu, managing director for domestic luxury sales. "But BMW and Mercedes-Benz are doing a better job attracting younger buyers." Toyota also is increasingly worried about a resurgent Nissan Motor Co. (NSANY ), which is staging a comeback in the sedan niche."

I was talking about the history and heritage of the automobile not the people.

This statistic is remarkable since we all know Japanese people are huge nationalists.

I know, but we are talking about the Luxury segment. Toyota selling the most cars is very well known.

Maybe my question was a little confusing, but notice where I wrote "Real Cars" as in Luxury cars and not the common Corolla.

BTW, I'm not expecting an answer from any of you since even Toyota is spooked about it.

Actually Toyota rebadeged the cars to Lexus to try and fight off the German popularity. Just because it wasn't a Lexus doesn't mean they didn't count them. Notice the "high-end cars costing more than $45,500."

Well we all know the Japanese are on average smarter than Americans, so I guess it's safe to say they make better purchase decisions.

What surprises me the most is that the Japanese people are huge nationalists. They would normally buy domestic even if they knew the imports were better.

Do the excuses ever stop?
First you said impossible for the Germans to outsell Japanese luxury cars in Japan. When I provided proof now you come up with some excuse that Lexus needs more time.

The fact of the matter is that they do outsell them in Japan and in the rest of the world.

You still don't have an excuse for why they buy the German cars especially considering they are huge nationalists. Why not buy the not so prestigious or inferior Celsior if it means you are helping and supporting your country?

Keep the excuses coming.

Only in your Toyota world would someone compare Corolla sales to that of S-class, 7 series, A8.

Good job JT.

So does anyone have actual numbers or is this some kinda of pissing contest???

"Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Audi -- have become more alluring to Japan's wealthiest car buyers. Those three brands alone sold a combined 96,000 vehicles in Japan last year, and overall imports account for about 60% of total sales of the highest-end cars costing more than $45,500."


"When young Tokyo professionals shop for wheels these days, chances are they'll drive right past the local Toyota dealership. While Japan's No. 1 auto maker still has half of Japan's high-end car market, affluent 30- and 40-somethings increasingly find its offerings dull and "old." The prestige cars in Japan these days are made by Mercedes-Benz (DCX ), BMW, and Audi. Combined Japanese sales of this formidable trio have grown 34% over the past decade.

The hearty appetite for fancy German metal has Toyota Motor Co. (TM ) spooked. "Higher-priced sedans are a traditional base of strength for Toyota," says Yasuhiko Fukatsu, managing director for domestic luxury sales. "But BMW and Mercedes-Benz are doing a better job attracting younger buyers." Toyota also is increasingly worried about a resurgent Nissan Motor Co. (NSANY ), which is staging a comeback in the sedan niche."

You knew exactly what I was asking. Look at the way Mikeg replied. The only reason you turned it around into a Toyota vs MB is because I showed you proof that the Germans outsell them in Japan.

Here it is again:

"Hey, I got a simple question for you Toyota/Lexus fans. Why do the Germans outsell the Japanese in Japan?

The only place that Lexus does well is in the US. Do you realize how small the US is? What makes you guys so special? You act like you discovered something.

Please enlighten me. Why is it that the Japanese and the rest of the world look to the Germans when buying a REAL CAR?

Could it be because we as Americans don't give a rat’s ass about history, heritage, or anything else for that matter? As long as it's priced well gets me from A to B I'm good to go."

Well Ben's doing some homework. That'll work for me. Of course Toyota has the majority of ALL sales in Japan, premium Luxo rides is another story. I hate when people just throw out false facts...proof bros!

If you knew how to read you wouldn't make pointless comments.

Germans cars are gaining popularity in Japan. Toyota has outsold them in the past with Celsior, and whatever other names they had.

Stop making excuses that Lexus just started there. The reason they changed the name was to try and fight off the German popularity.

Here read it again:

The prestige cars in Japan these days are made by Mercedes-Benz (DCX ), BMW, and Audi. Combined Japanese sales of this formidable trio have grown 34% over the past decade.

It seems to me that the smart Japanese consumers figured out there are a lot more important things to a car other than reliability.

I believe there are two real reasons why there are so many Japanese car haters out there, or conversely, why people adamantly prefer European cars :

1) Most European car buyers have egos that need to be stroked. Perhaps they are insecured or are raised beliving they are or should be better than anyone. In any case, this is why you will see them jump instinctively to "heritage", "emotions", and etc. whenever they go on the defensive. They think that MB/BMW/Audi/Bentley and etc. and the rest of the European cars are more elitist (probably because they cost more), by which ownership will represent them on higher social standings than the more common people and their non-European cars. This is what I decribed as an attempt to look blue (as in blue-blood).

2) I believe most European car worshippers also loathe to admit that the cars their great Caucasian race built are being challenged by the damn Japs and other Asians. After all, China was the sick man of Asia for a long time (and a damn communist state) and we beat the crap out of the Japs in WWII. This is not to speak of all the backward southeast Asian nations that we take a highbrow on. Oh, did I mention that most people probably don't think Asians are a symbol of attractiveness? That's why there are tons of jokes revolving around squinty eyes and nerdy personalities. So how are these distasteful and lowly people actually beating us on one of our greatest industries? My point is that I believe the rejection of Asian cars is racial on a very deep level.

Hey, you can disagree or flame me all you want, because I don't give a rat's a**. I don't claim to be a social scientist or an automobile economist, and everything that was said is just this person't personal opinion, most of which I think people are just too damn afraid to say.

The only problem is that the Japanese are not stupid. They know that the Celsior and LS is the same car no matter what you call it.

BNP,
I can't speak for everybody, but to me race is not an issue when purchasing a car. I would have never bought a Camry, Accord, or Tacoma if it were.

You guys are still avoiding the truth. The Germans are outselling the Japanese Luxury cars (above $45,500) in their own country. Toyota is spooked about it, but it seems that JT has an answer for everything

Maybe you should go and work for Toyota in Japan. Nobody over there understands why the German brands have gained 34% of the market in the last 10 years.

It seems to me that what happened in the US with Lexus is exactly what is happening in Japan with the German manufacturers.

Stop your excuses because the Germans were not always # 1 in Japan, Toyota was. During the past few years they lost a lot of grip in the luxury market and now they are trying to regain it by rebadging the Toyotas.

Your excuse doesn't even make any sense. "Lexus has been there for only 4 months." Give me a break.

BTW, you do realize that the Germans outsell the Japanse in the US as well. In the Luxury segment.
Don't you?

Now that they have Japan they pretty much rule the world in the luxury segment.

What's your excuse JT? I'm sure you'll come up with one.

like Lexus outsells all the other brands on an individually. Not too hard. They were who we were talking about, right?

"... brands individually... "

You Toyota fans don't even know how to read.

I said:
The Germans outsell the Japanse in the US as well. In the Luxury segment.

Think about it before you start your Lexus is #1 speech.

I never said individual companies.

??? If you want to play that game, then we can all recite random statistics for the rest of our lives. Who wins? What is the point?

We could, but it wouldn't change the fact that the Germans outsell the Japanese (luxury segment) worldwide (including Japan and US).

It wouldn't change the fact that MB is #1 worldwide by far.

Then you guys make a big deal out of Lexus having #1 spot only in the US...PLZZZZZZ

Not to mention BMW might beat them this year.

Give it a rest.

Ben.....................

Everyone, anything you tell ben falls on deaf ears. Ben, you are not objective, and you will not provide anything to back up your opinions. I encourage everyone not to respond to anything ben says until he backs it up with some data. I like a good ligit debate. Ben, you can not provide that! Goodbye ben!

THE GERMANS ARE COMING!

You guys jumped on the post and started crying like little babies when I made the statement. All of a sudden you turned my statement into a BMW vs Lexus. Where the hell do you see BMW in my statement?

So, Lexus was number # for a few years in the US. BIG DEAL. What makes you guys smarter than the rest of the WORLD including the JAPANESE PEOPLE?

You act like you discovered something. You drive dull, ugly, boring, TOYOTA APPLIANCES.

... you probably have no friends and have a vagina. Get a life.

that you have some serious issues that no car could fix.

Who cares what other people drive? Italian, German, Japanese, French, English, Korean, American; it doesn't matter. A car is a car. Some people care about other things more than they care about what brand it is they are driving as long as it makes them happy for whatever reasons it is based on.

Ben, do you really think that you can change the opinions of thousands of people with your non-sensical gibberish? If you want to make a difference, then get off these forums! Oh, wait, no, you don't want to make a difference. You are just bored and have no life!

Whatever you say Mike. I could care less what people drive.

You think I'm trying to change your opinion? GET REAL. The last thing I want is for everybody to drive the same car.

I'm just tired of you Toyota guys bashing every other manufacturer just because JD Power writes how reliable Lexus is. Is that all your car has going for it? Is it fast? Does it handle well? Does it look good? Does it have revolutionary technology? Can it last 20 years?

All you have is reliability. My Toyota truck was pretty reliable until it hit 60k miles. So what?
You don't see me going around bragging how reliable my truck was.

You guys remind me of a Hummer driver with a small penis.

You should go and visit some Lexus and MB forums.
99% of the cases it's the Lexus (especially IS) owners trolling around on MB forums.

have I bashed German cars. I like German cars, just not as much as Lexus. I would rather drive a MB than an Infiniti, and a 2005 3-Series than a 2005 IS, just not as much as a 2006 IS 350. When have I bashed the Germans? Are we hearing voices?