Jeremy Clarkson reviews the Lexus IS

This following pretty much sums it all up:

"Why do you never see one being driven by a woman? To find an answer we need to get logical. Nobody who’s interested in cars, whether they’re a man or a woman, will buy a Lexus. They’re just not zingy enough."

This guy hit the nail right on the head.

GS430? Don't make me laugh. What's so great about the GS430? You call a BMW 330 and E class POS that must be some amazing car you have there. It must have reliability of an old MB diesel and handling superior to a Porsche GT.

More like another boring overrated Camry with a V8 stuffed under the hood.

To add my two cents, my last two cars were a '98 540i and an '02 CLK430. The MB lived at the shop. The BMW was better, but left me stranded twice. If you're going to spend $50-$60K on a vehicle, you have a right to expect something that will work more often than not. Don't get me wrong, I loved both cars . . . every minute I didn't hate them. The CLK just gave up its stall for an IS350. It doesn't drive like a BMW, but it's damn good. It drives better than the CLK. It costs less and I expect it to stay in my garage, rather than the dealer's.

I love the part where you wrote that Lexus never made Hyundai type cars. What is the ES250 then? Have you seen one lately on the road? They are very rare because most are at the junkyard already. Speaking of the "disappearing Lexus" how many old SC and LS models do you see on the road? Hardly any. My friend towed away his SC300 to the junkyard with less than 120k mi.

On the other had I still see a bunch of old MBs (190E, 300E, SEL, etc.)

I'm not even going to bother telling you what I drive, even though I have listed my cars here more than once.
I'm either going to embarrass you or you won't believe me, so there is no point.

I've never owned a Lexus (not stupid enough to pay that much for a Toyota), but I drove most of them on many occasions. The just don't cut it for me. Too floaty and disconnected from the road. I owned a 94 Camry and they pretty much have the same driving characteristic. BTW, my 94 Camry barely reached 50k miles before the trans gave out, so I said bye bye to Toyota.

When your GS reaches 300k mi on one engine and trans (no overhauls) give me a call.

I love it when people buy a 300hp car I think it's the fastest car in the world.

My everyday car would rape your GS.

Didn’t the old GS400 have 300hp? Way to go Lexus what a great improvement.
Spare me the reliability talk because I already figured out Lexus’ SECRET.

They only offer 8 models and until recently 7 out of the 8 used one engine.

Not to mention the 300 engine is like 17 years old.

I’m actually surprised they have any problems at all.

When they start offering at least 3 engines per model plus a performance division plus at least double the number of models and start presenting new technology instead of STEALING IT then we will see how good their reliability is.

I beg to differ. I live in N Cali and travel to LA quite often. I hardly see any old SC and LS models, as in 92-96. You can recognize the older ones because they have different headlights and body panels.

My best friend had a 92 SC300 and a 94 LS400. The SC was towed to the junkyard. The LS had super low miles, so no major problems. I think he sold it back in 2000.

When he saw my 300CE reach 300K miles and still in showroom condition he bought a CLK430. His decision was pretty easy considering that Lexus really screwed up the SC design. The reliability of his SC didn't help either.

You noticed that you are the only one that ever defends the ES250. The ES250 was a rebadged Toyota Cressida. It was the biggest POS that ever hit the road.

You want proof that Lexus will never touch MB in quality/durability. Try this:

"More than 80 percent of all cars retailed by Mercedes-Benz dealers are still on the road today, and three-quarters of these are out of warranty,"

AS IN ALL MB CARS EVER SOLD IN THE US. That is a remarkable statistic. There is no automobile manufacturer that can touch that.

MB also holds the Guinness world record for most miles driven by a car @ 2.8 million. A Greek taxi driver with his 1970 MB diesel. There was also a couple in Orange County that drove their MB over the 1 million mile mark. MB purchased the car and put it in a museum.

Show me a Toyota/Lexus that reached 500K mi.

An MB diesel is still breaking in at that mileage.
Let me know if it ever reaches 300k. I lowered the target since it's a Lexus.

BTW, how many engines/transmissions did you use to reach 271k?

I just realized you might have a world record holder there...for a Lexus. If you never rebuilt the engine you should contact Guinness.

Well then you are on your way. According to my calculation you can reach 2.8 million in 83 years.

Good luck with that one.

Please go back to school. You can't even tell the difference between 72k and 720k.

It seems that your brain can't even comprehend how much is 500k miles let alone 2.8 million.

You honestly thought a gas powered Toyota Previa could reach 720k mi. In your dreams maybe.

Look at it this way JT, 2.8 million miles is the equivalent to circling the globe 112 times.

Keep searching buddy.

I agree #s don't lie.

"More than 80 percent of all cars retailed by Mercedes-Benz dealers are still on the road today, and three-quarters of these are out of warranty"

Unlike your proof less statements this was taken out of an article. Notice the "".

The number came from registered cars on the road, which to me is a remarkable figure and is a testament to the quality of MB. Can you imagine how many are not registered or how many were lost in an accident? It doesn't take much to total an old car, since their value is low.

More than 4 of 5 on the road. Can you imagine what our streets would look like if Toyota/Lexus had 4/5 cars still on the road? There would be more cars than people.

You are the kind of guy that would just deny everything MB. How about the Guinness world record. Should you call them and ask if they made a mistake with the Greek Taxi driver that holds the records for most miles driven by a car @ 2.8 million miles? Who the hell is ever going to touch that?
I think the previous record was 1.4 and before that it was 1 million. FYI, it wasn't a Toyota. It was another MB and a Volvo I think.

LIKE OUR FRIEND GSH SAID, #'s DON'T LIE.

Yeah...but the only difference is that this came straight from MB. Unlike your third party hybrid articles. I'm sure MB wouldn't be making things up. There are a lot of people out there that would love to prove them wrong.

Plus it's probably the easiest thing to prove. It’s not like they need a 5 year study to prove it. All they need to do is to verify with DMV. How do you think MB got the stats?

Your retail argument only works against you. What they meant was that all the cars that MBUSA sold to date are accounted for and more than 80% are registered and being driven.

The only other cars that ever entered the country are "Gray" market cars. So, the correct stat should be more than 80% plus X amount of “gray” cars are registered and driven.

"Your retail argument only works against you. What they meant was that all the cars that MBUSA sold to date are accounted for and more than 80% are registered and being driven."

No problem agreeing that you are very right here Ben.

It, however, seems like you are the only person on the face of the planet that still thinks that MB is producing reliable cars right now. Cmon Ben, they made the best cars on the road. Now, they don't. This is a fact. Just like 80% of MB cars sold through MB dealerships (because every car sold through non-MB dealerships were once sold by MB, so they have to be accounted for therefore as sold by MB initially - Ben is right) is a somewhat dependable statistic, MB having crappy reliability right now is a very RELIABLE statistic. Every car has its defect, but RECENT MB cars have MORE than their share.

Exactly.
However, there is a huge difference between reliability and durability. What is reliability? It doesn't mean every car is braking down. My family and I have owned about 15 MBs in the last 15-20 years. Nobody ever got stranded. They have all had great reliability. They only car that we had "problems" with was a first year C320.
Most of the problems were minor electrical gremlins (burnt light bulbs, radio, etc). Nothing that prevented it from being driven. However, despite the early problems the car turned out to be really good. It has about 85-95k miles and my sister in law drives it everyday. The car is out of warranty, but they decided to keep it because it is very reliable.

I have no doubt that the car is well made and it will run for a very long time with proper maintenance.

I believe you. I remember you saying that #'s don't lie. I can only conclude that you would stick to this value when considering that MB's falling reputation for quality cars has more validity than simply hype.

You may love your German cars, but it does not make your arguments have as much merit when you dismiss - not the competition - but the cars that others like for whatever reasons makes them happy. This shouldn't be a fight, but a discussion about what aspects we like about whatever cars they are without insulting other people's intelligence or taste. Nobody here will convince the other to think like they do by shoving it down their throat with rat poison. None of these cars are absolute garbage.

I simply wouldn't buy a MB (I really like the E-Class) until their customer service and most importantly, their reliability has really been examined and evaluated with a microscope. Matching Lexus' reliabitlity isn't a must for me, but bringing their reliability at least comparable to Lexus is. That being said, anyone who says that the C's performance is untouchable by the IS has not driven both cars!

Ben, my apologies for my comments to you on the LS blog!!!

Because this was an article about MBUSA. This percentage is for cars that were sold in the US by MBUSA. I think they started in the '60s.

We are not talking about worldwide sales since 1886.

Stop searching for an excuse because there is no excuse. This was an article about MBUSA opening independent service centers (without sales department) because of the growing number of old cars.

There is no twist to it, as in trading in a car (from another manufacturere) and then reselling it...LOL

Every manufacturer keeps track of their cars through DMV. How else would they contact you in case of a recall?

It simply means MORE THAN 80% of MBs EVER SOLD IN THE US ARE STILL REGISTERED AND DRIVEN ON THE ROAD.

BTW, why would you register a car that is not operable? The question I have is how many are still operable, but not registered? And how many were lost in an accident?

It would make this statistic even more remarkable.

"Joe Eberhardt, vice president of marketing for MBNA explains that opening the
Mercedes-Benz Service Centers is one way the company is addressing dramatic
changes in the automotive retail environment. "More than 80 percent of all
cars retailed by Mercedes-Benz dealers are still on the road today, and three-
quarters of these are out of warranty," Eberhardt says. "While Mercedes
owners tend to be less likely than the industry as a whole to 'defect' to
independent shops after the warranty runs out, the remainder represent a
challenge in terms of lost business and an opportunity in terms of customer
satisfaction," he adds."

True, but registering a car that is not operable is pretty difficult to do and doesn't make any sense.

Why would you pay the DMV registration if you were using your car as a backyard sculpture?

I'm not hiding the article just felt that nobody was interested in reading the whole thing.

http://www.off-road.com/mbenz/archive/0835.html

Only you could come up with an excuse like that.

The whole point of the article is that MBUSA knows how many cars are on the road and out of warranty and this is the reason for making an investment into the service centers.

throwing out random figures...don't make me laugh

You beat me to it. I was going to post this before somebody mentioned the year of that article.

If you knew anything about math and the growing number of sales, that percentage number can only be higher today.

BTW, like I have always stated "reliability" (whatever that means in you rmind) and durability are two very different things.

Just because you visit the service center more often for minor electrical gremlins does not mean that the car will break down and be thrown away in 10 years.

Your reasoning is flawed. How can MB use a 1970s diesel to defend their current electrical gremlins?

This was back in 1998, so he had no reason to defened MBs reliabilty. MB was making the most reliable cars the world has/will ever see.

You are reading too much into the dedicated facilities. I've been to one and it's basically a dealership without sales. You can take your car in even for warranty work. They are just trying to simulate an independent shop atmosphere were you can actually go into the garage and talk to the technicians. Get to know the people that work on your precious 1970s diesel.

Here is a little example for you:

Lets say MB sold 3,000,000 cars from 1960-1998
80% survived so 2,400,000
Lets say they sell 1,500,000 from 98-06 we can assume that the survival rate for these will be much higher since most are still under warranty.
We will use 95% even though I think it’s much higher. That is 1,425,000.

Add both survival numbers/total number sold (4,500,000) = 85%

I don't agree with you that my inoperable radio will blow a hole in my engine.

I agree with you that MB is not what it used to be, but my 98 E320 is well on its way to match or beat my 88 300CEs 300k miles with only routine maintenance.

Just to quickly answer JT's question. The reason why he didn't state all MBs ever sold in the US is because there is a small number of MBs that were sold in the US before MBUSA was organized.
Not to mention there are grey market MBs that have been imported into the country.

Some wealthy people were able to buy a G class way before MBUSA offered it. Joe Eberhardt can only speak of MBs that were sold through the MBUSA dealer network.

Only people like you would question it. Where else do you think he got the statistic? Maybe Mr. Eberhardt went around the country and counted them.

JT, how do you think manufacturers find owners to notify them of a recall? People move all the time.

There are a lot more important people out there, other than JT and Victor, that would love to point out how this guy and MB lie, so spare me the excuses.

When Toyota/Lexus makes a statement like this I will believe it since it’s very easy to confirm.

Too bad they will never be able to.

Hey JT, maybe MB is making the huge service center investments to support Mr. Eberhardt ludicrous statement.

You and Victor need to come up with a better excuse. You can't just call a huge company like Damiler-Chrysler and Mr. Eberhardt liars for your benefit.

Show me one statement from Toyota that I disputed. Did I ever dispute their mileage claims? No, I actually believe them, but the majority of people out in the real world will never even get close to those figures because of their driving style. Show me where Toyota stated that hybrids would have less of an impact on the environment than conventional cars (long term).

Stop making stuff up.

I'm not even going to comment on your hot wheel comment, so that I don't embarrass you.

BTW, Mr. Eberhardt comment is not far fetched at all. If you knew anything about cars you would know that nobody has or will ever build the type of cars that MB built pre 1996.

This was way before all the complicated electronics and before the competition forced everybody to make cheaper cars.

Nobody said this statistic would continue 20-30 years down the road. How could it? Today manufacturers are forced to make disposable cars.

one of the best automotive journalists out there. Lexi are wonderfully reliable, well-equipped cars, but they are just plain boring IMHO. At least the German cars (and Italians, too) have some character and are fun to drive for the most part. All Lexi are Toyotas underneath the skin and therein lies their boringness.

Do you realize you are the only one that can't understand it? You are the only one replying and denying everything MB.

A 10 year old would understand what this means

"More than 80 percent of all cars retailed by Mercedes-Benz dealers are still on the road today, and three-quarters of these are out of warranty"

MB and every other manufacturer know exactly how many cars are on the road. MB studied the market and decided to open service centers, so they don't lose the growing number of "out of warranty customers."

I'm no sure why you are having a hard time with it. Maybe because the statement didn't come form the Toyota/Lexus camp.

I hope you can grasp this.

All they need to do is take the total number of MBs sold by their company over the past years and subtract from the registered cars that are on the road. This will give you the number of unregistered cars due to an accident, age, or some other reason.

As you can see it's not rocket science. The only question we have left is how many are operable, but not registered?

It's pointless discussing with you anything.

Mr. Eberhardt did not have to go into details about his claim because the article was never meant to promote MB's superiority. It was about MB investing in specialized service centers for their growing number of out of warranty cars.

They based their decision on the # of cars out of warranty and it was just thrown out there when talking about their new investment. It was never meant to be an ad.

Make anything you want out of it. We both now that the statement is true.

Ben, you are a moron!

Only a moron would insist that what someone else said is fact based on what he said alone. And then use it as a basis for an argument.

I don't even understand why people bother to respond to your arguments other than maybe out of frustration.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinions. And yes, you are also entitled to being a moron. But for god's sake quit trying to win arguments by citing things that are at best only have a remote correlation.

If you want to show that MB makes great, reliable cars why don't you cite REAL statistical sources? Instead of citing one off examples like one MB reaching a million miles, personal experience and what some marketing guy said?

By insisting that your examples and sources actually prove something in a statistical sense, you've only managed to prove that you are a moron - an immature one at that.

First, the ES250 is NOT a rebadged Cressida; see, Cressidas were RWD, while ES250's were FWD – they were (like today) based on the Camry platform. Second, there were actually two "300" engines, not one as Ben states, one was an 3L inline-six for RWD cars (GS300, SC300, IS300, Supra) and the other was a 3L V6 for FWDers (ES300, RX300, Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Sienna, etc.). Thanx.

You state:
MB also holds the Guinness world record for most miles driven by a car @ 2.8 million. A Greek taxi driver with his 1970 MB diesel. There was also a couple in Orange County that drove their MB over the 1 million mile mark. MB purchased the car and put it in a museum.
As michael pointed above is not 2.8 miles but kilometers (1.7M miles), but it doesn't stop there... please, double check your facts and go to the source, in this case, the Guinness Book of World Records. It says this:

Highest Car Mileage
A 1966 Volvo P-1800S owned by Irvin Gordon of East Patchogue, New York, USA, had covered in excess of 3,572,342 km (2,219,751 miles) by March 2004. The car is still driven on a daily basis and covers over 160,000 km (100,000 miles) per year, thanks in part to being driven to numerous car shows and events in Europe and the USA.

The link:
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=43579

As anyone can see, our Ben once again fails to have a realtity check...

Thanks. RobinP. goartis.com