Do You Feel General Motors Lied About The Volt?

yep, so much for being able to go without refueling. Guess who killed the electric car again.

Does anyone find it odd that:

When they needed the bailout funds it started out with 200+ mpg

They got the funds it dropped to 100+ mpg

After cutting a profit it became 40 mpg with the wind behind your back

Somewhere in all of that there had to be someone that knew the truth and never spoke up.

Agent 009 GM did not drop the original rating from 200 the rating system changed and reduced the MPG.

Just another plug in hybrid. Even though full electrics are coming out, I wonder how ready for the real world they are. I know that they will function is certain situations but as a overall solution they come up short.

I don't believe a word of that report. Now, let's look at this rationally. The system that we have been always told that the Volt employs (ie electric at all times, supported by batteries charged by an engine when needed) is far simpler than what Edmunds is claiming, and likely far more expensive and complicated to implement. The system as Edmunds is putting forward cannot give economy figures even close to what the real-world figures are being reported as. We've seen those "soft hybrids". They get at best a 2mpg improvement. I really doubt anybody at GM feels that the public is dumb enough to not figure that out. Sometimes it is better to keep the mouth shut than to repeatedly prove one's self an idiot. Even if the Volt fails, Toyota has already proven that hybrids and eventually fully electric cars are viable, albeit not for all commuters. Though I can dig the concept of the Volt, I would prefer a diesel. That said, get this straight. NOBODY at GM ever said the Volt could be driven without refueling. The Volt will routinely turn its engine on at intervals to keep systems lubricated and free-moving and also to prevent fuel from separating (ethanol from gasoline, etc) due to lack of use. So until the aftermarket comes out with a defeat for that, eventually you will have to top up.

Here's a nice writeup on "the lie".

http://www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/1010_unbolting_the_chevy_volt_to_see_how_it_ticks/index.html

I'll sum it up for those of you who won't read it. The car uses the gas engine in conjunction with the electric motor at speeds over 70mph, because it's more efficient to do so at high speeds than spinning the electric motor alone. According to that article it's a better, more advanced solution to a common problem with EV's and hybrids. And by doing so it extends the range of the vehicle, which is kind of the point of the car.

So, let's analyze... they did something that makes the vehicle better performing at high speeds and get better economy at high speeds. Again, they made the car do something better, not worse. If the vehicle DIDN'T do what it does at 70+ mph, the same people complaining now would be griping about how the car has no power and loses efficiency at those speeds. But since it does, they're bitching about "the lie". Why would complainers play both sides of the same argument? Oh, right, because people just can't wait to rip GM no matter what, that's why.

I don't think they lied, I think they overestimated themselves. It's a new type of vehicle that took a lot of research and design to figure out. Part of this is the public not understanding how to use a plug in vehicle. I think the range is something like 40 miles on a charge (maybe 30 I can't remember what the most recent is). But if you're going more than 30 miles everyday then a plug in car is not for you. This car is for people like my mom who venture out maybe 10 miles at the most per day to do errands and drive around town.

Well don't they get paid to know these sorts of things?

Let's remember that GM claimed that it was "ALL EV" in all their marketing. If it's all EV then it should run as an EV regardless of speeds. Looks like a blatant lie to me and yes I did read the article in question and I'm not referring to other articles.

We all can't wait to rip on GM because they give us a reason to rip on them. Claim an exorbitant amount of MPG and then what happens? Take the rug right out from under us. Sure this only applies to when the car is in the speed range of 70+ mph but still you have to admit that now the car cannot be truly called an "EV." It is just another hybrid that runs mostly on its li-ion battery.

"If it's all EV then it should run as an EV regardless of speeds. Looks like a blatant lie to me and yes I did read the article in question and I'm not referring to other articles."

Maybe you SHOULD read the articles. If it did what you're saying then it would be less efficient/have less power at high speeds, and you'd just be complaining about how it's a failure for that reason. You do realize it required EXTRA engineering to make the car do what it does at 70+mph, right? They didn't have to add that extra gear set to engage the gas engine with the wheels at higher speeds, they could have left it pure EV with that glaring shortcoming at 70+mph. Instead they did some extra engineering to make the car more efficient/powerful at higher speeds. Are you saying they should have made the car less efficient and practical just to stick to their "promise"? Is that really your argument? That they should have made the car worse out of principle because it would have been more honest? Take a step back and think about what it is you're saying, because that's kind of ridiculous.

GM stuck with the true EV label all the way to the last minute when they said "oh yea it needs to use the internal combustion engine to run 70+mph" It's not a ridiculous thought.

"Frankly, we were lied to. Back in June, John O'Dell who edits Edmunds.com's eco-obsessed sister site The Green Car Advisor reported on rumors that last minute revisions would have the Volt using a direct mechanical connection between its Ecotec engine and drive wheels. So O'Dell asked GM's spokesman Robert Petersen directly if the rumors were true. Petersen clearly denied the rumors and insisted the Volt (and its European brother the Opel Ampera) would be driven solely by electricity."

Why deny any claim that it was purely EV when in fact they were already working on a "solution" to the 70+mph efficiency/power claim? Why create all the hullabaloo about a car that claims 200+mpg then later revise it with 100mpg and still claim it to be pure EV while all the while still working a way to provide maximum efficiency at speeds over 70mph? They already foresaw the problems at 70mph and tried to solve it but in the end they still wound up going the "conventional hybrid" route. I don't see how my argument is ridiculous. I'm not bashing GM but I find it interesting how all this speculation into how great a car this could have been has been turned into just another hybrid. The only lie here is that the car is not an EV anymore.

"just another hybrid" that in a 233 mile mix of all kinds of driving (mountains, top speed, city, highway, driving hard, driving soft, long trips, short trips, etc.) returned 127 mpg. With the A/C and radio on. 127 mpg. Including several trips that a "true EV" (i.e. a Leaf) would have been unable to complete. If it's "just another hybrid", show me a hybrid that could have done what the Volt did in that test?

I'd probably call it a plug-in hybrid, but EV is fine as well, just not "ALL EV" which GM never claimed and we knew this already. The fact that it needs the help of its gas engine only after the battery has been depleted, and only above 70mph doesn't change that. Can they call it "All EV"? No. Thats a Nissan Leaf. But I'll definitely still call it a plug-in hybrid with a very good electric range. But honestly who cares which engine is doing what once the battery is depleted? Its still gonna suck on gas from that point and do its job regardless. And for the drivers who rarely drive it past its full electric range this will be a non-issue. The fact that GM called it an electric vehicle and not a plug-in hybrid is just nitpicking.

Why is it not suprising that everyone who wants this car to fail keep commenting on it and also havent driven it?

Well that it is in fact similar to the Prius is given a fact since in the end it does have a planetary transmission ...Something they pooh poohed as being to complicated and heavy . here where they have lied the most
1) What happened to the 230 MPG ?
2) Since Ford and Toyota have a lock on most of the hybrid patents where does it leave ... GM "new invention" of the same transmission ?
3) 35- 38 mpg over the testing done by popular mechanics, means that its really not as big as a gas sipper as it really is.(unless you pretty much only use it within the 30 - 35 miles gotten in testing)
4) The EV plugin label is key to get the 7000 dollars from the govt.

It is given that as long as GM is owned by the govt. nobody will make a move against it and nobody will ask hard questions . But once the IPO is out these are some real questions.

Despite all the above, its GM sales pitch which will make or break this segment . Best of Luck

Guru Steve says line up the cars and evaluate them on their merits. If the Volt is "better" than the competition, then I'd get it for that reason, even if the marketing hype was wrong or exaggerated.

what a novel idea. That'll never fly on here though.

The writer of that Motor Trend article did not understand how it works and hence did not do a good job of explaining. Voltec has two motors in it. One is a large unit called the "traction" motor that drives the wheels at ALL times. This is a very large and powerful motor that is the primary means of drive. The other is actually a generator that is reversable as a motor as well. If cruising (not accelerating) at or above 70mph the generator (which is connected to the engine) is made to act as a small motor to ASSIST the traction motor. This assist then basically allows the traction motor to utilise less power from the batteries. After time T when battery depletion occurs (let's say 45 miles down the road), the engine is brought on line to charge the battery. At this point the generator is now acting as a generator but the assist that it provides to the traction motor HAS to come from the engine because the generator cannot be a generator and a motor at the same time. The assist that is hence provided is not enough to drive the car on its own. Should the traction motor fail the car will come to a halt. There is a way around this and it would be to employ a dedicated secondary traction motor to provide the assist, leaving the generator free to do only that. But here we add weight and expense. Bear in mind that the engine will generally not come into play unless the battery is depleted some 25 to 50 miles down the road. So for the vast majority of motorists travelling to work, the engine will not come on. Now let us say that you are cruising at 55mph. Even if the engine does come on it will not be assisting the traction motor at all because the generator would not be providing any assist at that time. Remember, now, that the generator only provides assist at or above 70mph when CRUISING. I can truly understand how people who are not mechanically inclined would not understand what's going on here. But as a student of physics (advanced levels of it) AND as a certified ASE technician, I think I get the drift.

I would recommend listening to one of the Volt's engineers explain it. before you jump the gun.

http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

BTW, the idiot who deboosted me needs to go read a book and grow a brain in the process.

Lie, no.

Exaggerate some aspects to make it compare favorably to other cars, yes!

The mpg went from 230 mpg to 50 mpg? Government Motors lies just like the Lair and Chief, I mean Marxist and Chief, I mean????