Review: Lexus IS 220d

That was one of the worst reviews I ever read. The Japanese "Copy and Paste" doesn't seem to work with diesel power.
When it comes to diesel technology it seems like they are stuck in WWII.

But I do like this line:

"Nobody does clinical, soulless efficiency better than Lexus"

Now I'll admit it was a very brief article, and not very detailed, but the overall idea I got from it was that Lexus has tried to lure European customers with a diesel powerplant, and completely failed.

The fact that Lexus is so out-of-touch with the European consumer goe to show how much effort has been placed on dominating the American market only. Which is why all you Americans like them so much, they were made specifically for you!

From Lexus.com:

"May 1985
A study team visits the U.S. to conduct focus groups while a design team moves to California to develop concepts."


Even the name 'Lexus' was created by an American image consulting firm.

Look who's talking about being biased. You haven't even seen or heard an IS220D and you already talking about how good it is.
Somebody a lot smarter than you wrote that article and said it was CRAP and SOULLESS just like every other Lexus product...LOL

Actually I have. Not the new one, but I drove the first one. Drives like every other crap from Toyota.
The shifter is just genius for getting second degree burns.

Here is a list of Toyotas that I've driven just for you JT

LS400, SC300, IS300, ES300, LX470, GX470, Echo, Corolla, Tacoma, Camry, 4 runner...I'm probably forgetting 1 or 2 more.

Why are you blaming me for the poor review of this IS220d? A reputable writer wrote the article. I'm pretty sure he has driven more diesels than you've seen in your life. But that is not good enough for you. You have to come here and post your crap like: "We all know he is biased and that the IS 220d is a good car."

Look what the writer wrote about the engine:

"Unfortunately, it still sounds like a 1970s Mercedes taxi and no amount of gears (it has six, by the way) are going to hide that. You would think that, having taken Lexus so long to develop a diesel, it would have come up with something special (it has just unveiled the world's first hybrid luxury saloon, the LS600, for instance), but this is an old-school diesel - or at least, that's how it will sound to the neighbors on a cold winter morning."

"It doesn't get much better on the motorway where the engine continues to intrude like a kind of coarse, low-level tinnitus. Thank heavens for the "Mark Levinson" stereo, which turns the IS220d into a mobile concert hall. I have no idea who Mr Levinson is, and I have never seen his name outside of a Lexus cabin, but he makes a damn fine wireless. If only the car that carried it was as impressive."

You conveniently left out those paragraphs in your little post. But I'm very surprised you posted my favorite quote:

"NOBODY DOES CLINICAL, SOULLESS EFFICIENCY BETTER THAN LEXUS"

Lexus IS220d is a good car,It's 2.2 V6 engine is the most creamiest engine in the range/class.

And saying that Toyota don't build a good diesel car.It's a totally biassed statement infact the diesels which they offer in their offroaders and pickups 2.5d,4.0d,4.5d...etc are more of perfect engines.With MAX Power,MAX RELIABILITY AND MIN FUEL CONSUMPTION.
And their small engines like 1.5,1.9,2.0...etc are also very good.

And above all,TOYOTA really wanted a diesel LEXUS car at this stage to attract many new coustomers in different markets.I believe it is doing and will do very well in both Europe and in America.


JUGNU

Lexus IS220d is a good car,It's 2.2 V6 engine is the most creamiest engine in the range/class.

And saying that Toyota don't build a good diesel car.It's a totally biassed statement infact the diesels which they offer in their offroaders and pickups 2.5d,4.0d,4.5d...etc are more of perfect engines.With MAX Power,MAX RELIABILITY AND MIN FUEL CONSUMPTION.
And their small engines like 1.5,1.9,2.0...etc are also very good.

And above all,TOYOTA really wanted a diesel LEXUS car at this stage to attract many new coustomers in different markets.I believe it is doing and will do very well in both Europe and in America.


JUGNU

JUGNU, Thanks for confirming Toyota's diesel history.
JT always wants people to be aware of how "young" Lexus is when convenient. Lexus is not an independent company that was founded 16 years ago. Lexus is Toyota. They have been making diesel for a very long time.

Too bad they suck at it. They are at least 30 years behind the Germans.

BTW JUGNU care to explain creamiest engine? LOL

JT just face it. The Lexus venture into the diesel arena will take a while. After all you gotta buy a competitors vehicle and reverse engineer it, and then place it in a vanilla wrapper and badge it. That takes time. Then you have a typical Lexus 9/10th of the way there but not quite fully.

It will take a while before Japanese technology catches up. The euros have a very big lead, so big in fact, the Japanese have faced it by taking the hybrid approach and marketing that as the new alternative. More a marketing ideal than a substantial real world solution. Neither is diesel but in many ways a far superior way of getting to the next step.

We americans tend to believe everything we read in marketing so if it sounds good we believe it. Many times the facts differ.

If I purcahsed any car that was in the shop 70% of the first year it would go back under the lemon law. That seems to be such a high figure. care to restate it?

I agree pricing to be determined as the deisels make it over. It is important that they start flowing. Knowing Lexus it will be priced according to their target audience.

Too bad most state currently are showing no differences between a purchase and a lease but the are a few that do. That stinks, so sorry for you. Still I would have been all over BMW corporate about that one (not that you were not). Where there is a will there is a way. I had a Honda like that, after two blow off letters from them, I contacted the local TV station and they ran a piece on it, viola they bough the car back. Got a call the 2 days later, they reconsidered for some reason or other. ;)

Also here you have 5 days to back out, if the problem is reported in 5 days and can not be recitified in a timely manner then you can back out. The key is to report it to them in that time to keep it. That may not have been an option with you.


Mine is the opposite EVERY Japanese car we have owned except one (Mazda) literally has been issue laden. While the German cars we have owned have been bullet proof. Just goes to show why there are fans of all types.

That's fine. If you need a plush ride and absolutely hate taking in your car for service 2.3 times instead of 1.4 times a year, go right ahead. Just don't come here and start comparing your plush "copy and paste" crap to the fine engineered autobahn cruisers.

The new IS can't even match the C class that was designed 6 years ago and this Lexus diesel engine sounds like something that was designed in WWII.

The C and IS were introduced the same year in the US. The IS is already redesigned (only 5 years in production) while the C is still selling. Doesn't that tell you something?

it does, but you are too stupid to realize that it doesn't have to do with anything you have been screaming about blindly.

Why don't you enlighten us you idiot?

While you're at it let me know of any MB model that was in production for 5 years.

13 year run for the SL (W129) and it still looks like a brand new car today. Lexus can only dream of making a car that good.

Your book means nothing to the manufacturers. They follow #s.

Commonsense, I think you need to change your name because you have no common sense.

Bland design? Maybe that is why the C class production is 40% longer than that of the old IS.

IS 5 years
C class 7 years

Don't talk to me about reliability because my sister in law owns a first year C class with 85k miles and 0 problems. The car did have a few small issues in the beginning (like every other first year car) and after that it only required oil changes.

A C320 drove horribly? Compared to what? A Ferrari?

Who said anything about me owning a C class?

These guys will disagree with you on the IS vs C
http://www.cartoday.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=035333

Notice it's the New IS not the old one. The C class would wipe the floor with the old IS.

It's embarrassing that the NEW IS can't even beat an aging C class that was designed 6 years ago.

BTW, I think you need to go back to school. Nobody cares how many times your dad took the car in for service. We are talking about AVERAGE. Ever heard of it?
The same way your dad took his car in for service numerous times there are people that never took their car in for service. You ever tought about that?

Change your name quickly!!!

Now you are comparing a C230 to a IS 350?
Maybe we should compare this IS220d to a C55 you CLOWN!!

Maybe you should read the following again:
http://www.cartoday.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=035333

The only problem is that MB doesn't make a C320 anymore.

You should really read that article before you start posting crap here.

FACT is the NEW IS has a hard time with a current C, a car that was designed 6 years ago.

The 2008 C will have a field day with that IS.

BTW, why is that you Lexus boys always talk about price? JT is always trying to convince me that price plays no role in why people choose Lexus. It seems that you friends are proving you very wrong.

Too bad you guys can't afford a real car.

According to both THIS is real math?

We have 100 questions:
JT misses one and scores a 99% (Great Job!)
CommonSense misses two and scores a 98%

According to their math, since CommonSense missed 2 vs 1, JT is twice as smart as CommonSense!


Now lets do this again it has been repeated before;

JD Powers score for Lexus of 139 per 100 cars produced (hence PP100)
139/100= 1.39 issues per car (a great figure) this was over a period of 3 years (1095 days)
Lets say each issue is equal to one day and a partial equals the equivalent. We then have 1.39 days out of service for the Lexus out of 1095 days. Or 1093.61 days it remains in service. That means it runs 99.87% of the time with no issues.

Simple math, Right!

Well according to both of you the MB is horrible with 283.

Lets set the record straight and see!

283/100 =2.83 issues per car over a period of 3 years (1095 days)
or 1092.17 days in service without issue
That means it runs 99.74% of the time with no issues or .13% difference in reliability.

Not that much of a difference.

This is common QC math.

I don't even own a MB currently but you Lexus guys need a refresher in math for sure.

now that makes sense and sums it all up, "it is better because I said so!" Get a grip the road tests show otherwise.

"9/10th engineering, almost there but not quite", the new Lexus motto

The FACT that the C class was designed 6 years ago and can still hold its own is remarkable. Mediocre wouldn't cut it my friend.
Care to tell me why the C has a 7 year production run and the old IS only 5 years. That is a 40% LONGER production run.
If the C is mediocre what does that make the old IS? The biggest piece of crap ever to enter the luxury segment?

You got any URL's to support your arguments?

That might help you case a bit. If not then this is just a grade school shouting match. "mine is better than yours"

At least there is some proof out there on the table in C Class favor already... Actually the older C Class beats the new IS350 in the URL posted previously by Ben, now that is underachievement at it's best. Miss the mark on an existing model, not like you didn't have a target shoot at.

Actually out of a four car showdown it finished third. What reason might that be? Maybe the comments such as "Lack of Character, Bland , and Uninspiring" penned by the writers are a hint. The Germans are masters at the "intangibles" that are elusive to copy, until then they are difficult to beat.

I do find it quite funny, that when the truth is out there, such as the reliability rates, you guys often refuse to believe them. Even though you can run the figures yourself, from the same sources provided by you, and get the same result. It is amazing how many of you just put your head in the sand when it comes to the truth.

Pony up some proof to quiet us down...

Where are you man? Will is in a boat full of holes and needs help bailing it out!

Welcome back,

You are correct in that the Lexus might not be out of service for 1.39 days. However, if you read a little closer you would see I clearly gave a precursor that we would "assume" that it did equate to that. So please read a little deeper into it.

So far your math logic does not hold up. But, I will give you this. In my scenario the MB did potentially go into the shop one more time. That is a correct assumption and pretty obvious. But that does not make it half as reliable in the overall ownership experience.

Again there will be cars of both makes that have no defects, and some that will exceed the average. But again JD Powers fails to define what a defect exactly is as far as severity. So a cup holder not retracting is the same as a transmission falling out. Fatal flaw.

That is why they are changing it. But then again they need to sell data, so anyway they can show a bigger spread the better. We like to see data even though it may not be relevant. The good thing is, they actually approach the actual consumer that purchases the vehicle. Consumer Reports just basically does a cattle call in the hopes they got the right people. So I could for example tell them I bought an IS350 and trash it in the survey. A lot less scientific and more prone to error.

The truth is, if you worry about repairs in the high end market, you probably have bought too much car and are worring about the bills. But then again with the warranties being bumper to bumper for 48 months and most of these cars are traded in by that time so repairs amount to $0 and you get a free loaner. So what is the point? you wasted 1.5 hours out of 3 years. Whoopee!

Basically it is splitting hairs, and it will be until JD Powers releases a report stating the severity.

Please go back to school. The number represents problems per 100 cars not 1.39 cars with problems.

You guys are putting too much emphasis on this JD crap because that is all that Lexus has going for it. Until somebody comes out with some real surveys showing major problems it's all junk. The MB can have a burnt light bulb while the Lexus a blown transmission and vice versa the result would be the same.

Even if we go by this survey one car will be in for service 2 times a year and the other 3 times a year BIG DEALLLLL!!!!!

What is the trade off for ONE extra service per year? Heritage, prestige, better looks, better engineering, safer, lasts longer, drives better, timeless designs, ....

Is that your graduation? Somebody made a mistake. You should be enrolling not graduating.

Here is your quote. You explain it to me.

"Your math is flawed. Lexus's figure of 1.39 is not for the number of days a car is out of service, but the amount of cars that had problems per 100 vehicles, duh!"

Amount of cars that that had problems per 100 cars? There is something really wrong with you.

It means 139 problems per 100 cars. You and your friends seem to have a problem with the word AVERAGE. Some cars will have 10 problems some will have 0. The average of 100 cars is 139 problems, which means the average Lexus will have 1.39 problems. Since we know there is no such thing as 1.39 problems it's safe to say the car will be brought to service 2 times.

MB on the other hand has 2.83 problems per vehicle, which translates to 3 trips to the service.

You with me or what?

Is this a 3 year survey? If it is then your reliability is even less significant. The MB will be brought into service once a year for 3 years and the Lexus will do the same except stay reliable for one of those years. Maybe the cup holder will operate flawlessly that year?

You keep making a big deal out of this reliability nonsense.

If you had any common sense you would have noticed that we're not rounding off numbers here. We are talking about problems. 1.39 problems is the equivalent of going into service twice. Same as 2.xx is the equivalent of going into the shop three times.

Just because you can't afford a car with
heritage, prestige, better looks, better engineering, better safety, longevity, that drives better, timeless design, ....you shouldn’t laugh at people than can.

You and JT really need to go back to school. You guys can't do simple math and you obviously can't read. Show me where I wrote that I own a C class you clown.
BTW, we don't really care about what your Daddy drives.

Maybe we should simplify the numbers, so the two of with your little brains can try and comprehend it. I promise you won't have to move any decimal points JT. I don't want you to overload your brain.

Lets assume Lexus has 100 problems per 100 cars and MB has 200 problems per 200 cars in 3 years.
Notice it's double just like the original 139 vs 283.

So, the Lexus will have one problem per vehicle every three years and the MB will have two every three years.

WOW what a big difference!!! I really need to go and trade my car in, so that I don't make one extra trip to the dealership in 3 years.

These surveys are useless. We don't even know the severity of the problems.

U r comparing an old c class with the new IS.
And also saying it crap,New IS Which tied for the first place with BMW's new 3 series in small sports sedan Category.

MB's c class is not even in the first 3 places.
Audi's A4 is second,Infiniti's G35 sedan is third.

And i stll doubt that even the upcoming C class,(C350)will not be better than the new IS and 3 series.
Because it will use the same 3.5l V6 engine producing 272 HP,which is already there in every MB's 3.5 V6 car.

So next time,don't hype the MB's c class too much,it lost from the competition years back.

Do u remember,1 or 2 years back, MB was so dissapointed with the sales of C,that there were rumours circulating that MB will stop or will wipe out the C from it's line-up.Same like what VW did with the phaeton.

But,i hope a good luck for MB's new C class,hope it will be very fine,and will not be left behind from the competition.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

U r comparing an old c class with the new IS.
And also saying it crap,New IS Which tied for the first place with BMW's new 3 series in small sports sedan Category.

MB's c class is not even in the first 3 places.
Audi's A4 is second,Infiniti's G35 sedan is third.

And i stll doubt that even the upcoming C class,(C350)will not be better than the new IS and 3 series.
Because it will use the same 3.5l V6 engine producing 272 HP,which is already there in every MB's 3.5 V6 car.

So next time,don't hype the MB's c class too much,it lost from the competition years back.

Do u remember,1 or 2 years back, MB was so dissapointed with the sales of C,that there were rumours circulating that MB will stop or will wipe out the C from it's line-up.Same like what VW did with the phaeton.

But,i hope a good luck for MB's new C class,hope it will be very fine,and will not be left behind from the competition.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

Apologies for calling you cousins. Just the way you both interpret math made it look like at least you could be releated or gone to school together.

Ok from the above, it looks like there is a bit of confusion on the JD Powers figures still. The Lexus 139 (PP100) does indeed = 1.39 per car. But several have assumed it was 1.39 problems per year. No where does it state that. In fact it states it as 1.39 issues reported over the course of three years.

Yes 2.83 problems per year over 3 years or 10 shop visits would discourage me from anything. (even a German car) However 3 trips over three years is not a problem for me as compared 1.39 or 2 visits. (Yes JT I rounded up on both figures).

JT and Common Sense you are correct that when you spend a boat load of money on a car, you probably want it to be 100% reliable. I can see that. But when I buy a car I tend to gravitate to the engineering in a german make (Ben maybe for the same reason). I know that it will probably be far more complex, and with that basic QC math states that the more parts, the more of a chance of an issue. So I approach it from that perspective.

I know, that like a quartz timex watch, a Lexus will keep on ticking. But my vintage TagHeuer Chronograph simply feels and looks better. I also realize it will need to be cleaned and maintained over time. The Timex does the job, but the Tag looks a hell of a lot better feels better and is precision.

You guys are wasting too much time on JD Powers it is simply one survey. I could show you european surveys that show toyota ranking 9th over all. We can skew it however you want.

You really need to start looking over your shoulders. I have said this before. The Koreans are coming and you are their target. The Germans have a target audience and as hard as Lexus tries it will not get the viligant, only the non committed that would buy another brand each time. The Koreans excel at the target audience of Toyota and Lexus. I for one will will be laughing when it happens, the tidal shift has already started.

Really?
Is this the reason why MB's C class has a 40% longer production cycle than that of the old IS (7 years vs. 5 years)?

Is this the reason why the C class was almost declared a winner here?
http://www.cartoday.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=035333

I don't own a C class, but I give credit where credit is due.
You can probably find articles where the 6 year old C loses to the new IS, but just the fact that it almost won here speaks volumes.

BTW, a car does not just win because of HP. The BMW 3 series beat the new IS in every single review. Even though it's slower/less hp.

The 2008 C class will beat the new IS just like the current C beat the old IS.

Lets get a different perspective here.

I had some friends over for dinner lat night. They own a successful used car business that specializes in luxury vehicles and some sports cars. I asked what they sell the most of and why?

Their answer was Mercedes Benz hands down. I asked why? "Typically we pick all cars up at auction as lease returns, and to be honest they simply hold up better over the years. We offer a certified warranty on every car and typically the Japanese makes don't stand up to it, so that rules them out."

Now in this area there are 8 lexus dealers 3 Mercedes and 3 BMW dealers. There are a ton of Lexus out there on the market that end up at auction. A simple fact around here. (Again Lexus are like Taxis around here, every mom and dad have at least one it seems)

But when we looked at their sales this is what we found:

They sold out of almost 900 cars:
206 Mercedes-Benz #1
121 BMW #2
111 Lexus #3

What does this say?

Basically one of two things I guess. That given a 4 or more years of use, what type of condition is the car actually still in and how popular is it? Their sales are showing that MB is their number one choice as the ticket for Desirability, and Long Term Condition over all.


Just an interesting side note. It may all fall back on to the original buyer. Are they diligent with maintenance and keep records? Or are they more laid back and get to it when they can? It all adds up. I have read horror stories on all sides of the fence, but if you maintain the vehicle, both will stand up over time. But in the real world and everything being as it is, these two professionals say MB stands up better than Lexus. And remember I do not own a MB currently.

"Different Strokes for Different Folks"

I won't call a Lexus anything other than what it is. An exceptional car in its class, with a high reliability factor. Plain and simple, it is the truth.

Still alone, probably would not move Ben or me to buy one. Nice, yes, but not exceptional by my standards. If I wanted nice and reliable I might consider a Hyundai Azzera. Looks damn near like a Lexus and cost a lot less, nothing for me to lose.

I think Ben might agree, to own a German car is a passionate experience. Either you love it, or hate it. If you hate it then get out and run. For me to own a Japanese product is taking a bath in lukewarm water. Not a comfort nor a problem, just there. I prefer to "drive" not merely "commute". Too many of us confuse those terms. There is a significant fundamental difference and either you get it or not.

JT- A car can beat another on paper in static tests, but put it on a track or road and the static test winner can indeed lose. It is all about balance. That is why the G35 AWD (Infinity) looks great on paper and wins in all of the static tests but bombs all over the place in a side-by-side comparison of it peers. Again those people just don't get it, and blame the test or the driver.

I have competed in SCCA club racing for over 5 years, and typically there are reasons why cars win. It is the balance, dynamics and the driver. This carries over to the street. That is why there is not a successful Infinity or Lexus effort in the grass roots racing. They are not cut out for that, even though they imply they are. Paper tigers are what we call em.

So I guess my views probably will never change and I doubt you will either (just a hunch). We all have our reasons and it is that simple. Just tout the high points of the Marquee or your choice and make sure you are on solid ground. Paradigm shift has started and in 5 years the whole landscape will have changed.

Alright man this has got to stop we are being too civil. (why does this always happen in the diesel arena?)

All car choices must be governed by priorities. MB, BMW , Lexus, and Toyota all have a clear target of their customer base. The ones that walk out unhappy and typically switch are those that either had no idea what they want and bought under the wrong priorities, were confused, had no clue (been there), or had unrealistic expectation (been there too). You buy outside that realm you will be unhappy.

In this case the reviewer had unrealistic expectation of the diesel in the Lexus. He might have driven a current MB or current Audi diesel. Those cars do not smoke and do not sound like rattle traps. Diesel has come a long way. Next time you pull up to a TDI VW look for the smoke and listen for the rattle. It is hardley there or not at all. When and if this Lexus makes it here, in order to keep the Lexus "name" intact it must be as sophisticated as the modern powerplants over there. So far it appears to be a diesel that was common 7 or 8 years ago. That is a dissappointment.

You're either ignorant or stupid. Any way you cut it the MB ON AVERAGE will make one extra trip to the dealer every 3 years.

You notice nobody is even backing you up. It seems like you’re the only person that doesn't understand it.

The problem with your reliability argument is that for the most part today's cars (any manufacturer) are pretty damn reliable. Even at 400-600 problems per 100 cars it boils down to 1-2 trips (ON AVERAGE) to the dealer every year.

Never mind I figured it out you're not ignorant you’re just plain stupid.
Why would you divide 139 problems by 1095? Unless you assume that 139 problems is the equivalent of 139 days out of commission it makes no sense.

How exactly do you think those 139 problems are going to get fixed? A normal person takes his/her car into service when they develop one problem.

It means every Lexus owner ON AVERAGE will take their car into service 1.39 times for 1.39 problems.

With your stupid logic you assumed that every problem will take one day to fix which mean 100 Lexus' will be out of commission for 139 days, which is the equivalent of 13% of the time out of 3 years. WTF is that?

So, what exactly are you going to do with that statistic you idiot?

PS Now I am convinced that you and Commonsense are the same person.

Damn you need some help guy. So, 139 problems divided by 1095 days means the car has a 12% chance to develop a problem. You're dumber than I tought.

PS nobody ever mentioned # of days. It's the number of visits. You're the idiot that started dividing # of problems by number of days.

The average Lexus will have 1.39 problems every 3 years and the average MB will have 2.83 problems in the same amount of time. Where exactly do you see days you clown?

You have me confused a bit. I never stated a preference for the 318. I never have owned one or expressed an interest in one. Never driven one to boot. The G35 I did comment on, and I actually rove it. I thought it was fast as scat, but crude and cheaply finished on the inside, again it missed the mark, the AWD version was a joke I drove it in the wet, unlike other AWD this one simply did not work worth a flip.

However your previous comments about Ben and mn_audi developing an emotional attachment to a German car is dead on. It is called passion. The key lacking ingredient in most cars. You can build a car that is 100% reliable, but if it instills no passion, then I for one will not buy it. Why spend that much money to drive, if a commute was in order I would simply buy a Hyundai and ride the train.

It's called AVERAGE JT. Ever heard of it? Probably not.

The best part is 139 problems divided by 1095 days equals 12% chance that a Lexus will brake down.
That is the funniest thing I ever heard in my life.

You're so stupid it's not even funny anymore.

About 90 comments duking it out over a Diesel car that is not here yet... if ever. We all need to see a doctor for some prozac. I love the passion and laugh at the comments, but why does this happen over a diesel and nothing else? We need to laugh at ourselves a bit.

You’re obviously plain stupid. Why in the world would you ever divide 139 problems by 1095 days. Did you ever learn in school not to divide x and y? Do you even know what 13% (not 12%) is? You basically converted 139 problems to days and divided them by 1095 days. WOW you figured out that 139 days is 13% of 3 years. What exactly are you going to do with that statistic you moron? The only one mentioning days here is YOU.

I took 139 problems and divided by 100 cars and got 1.39 problems.
This is the average number of problems per ONE ONE LEXUS car in 3 years.
Of course some will have 10 problems and some ZERO, but the average LEXUS (ONE CAR) will have 1.39 problems during the course of 3 years.

Where exactly do you see days in my statement you CLOWN?

You are the only idiot that would ever divide 139 PROBLEMS BY 1095 DAYS and then accuse me of practicing false math. GROW A BRAIN and come back.

You should just walk away. You look stupider with each statement.

It's time for you to stop posting under two names.

You're the only person on this blog that sees more sense in dividing 139 problems by 1095 days instead of dividing the number of problems by the number of cars tested.

Even a first grader would understand that.

Anybody else want to backup JT on this one, other than JT himself with the name Commonsense?

I'm done with you. Go back to school maybe they can tech you not to divide car problems by the number of days in 3 years.

I'll answer that Porty, if you don't mind.

THE BORING KIND. WHAT OTHER KIND IS THERE?

First of all, what the hell are you talking about using your name? Seems like you have some kind of identity crisis just like Lexus.

You really need to seek some treatment. I've heard of people posting with multiple names, but to actually have an ongoing conversation with yourself is something else.

Get some help JT.

BTW, last time I checked JD surveys never stated any percentages/chances of cars braking down.

However, at least your math is improving you figured out that 139 days is 13% of 3 years and 283 days is 26% of 3 years. BRAVO JT. I'm proud of you.

What exactly does an honest mistake in a previous post have to do with this post? Where did I use your name in this post?

The problem is that you are posting under multiple names like Porter and Commonsense and you're getting confused. Get some treatment please.

AND FOR THE LAST TIME KEEP DAYS AND VISTIS OUT OF THIS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PROBLEMS. JD's SURVEY IS ABOUT PROBLEMS.

If somebody told you 100 of my cars had 139 problems. Then he asked you to figure out what was the average number of problems per car. Simple math would tell you to divide the number of problems by the number of cars. That means that on average one car had 1.39 problems.

Same with MB. It's 2.83 problems per one car ON AVERAGE. Some might have 1, some 3, some 6, some 10, but on average one car out of the 100 that had 283 problems will have 2.83 problems.

Before you start posting crap again about JD's survey not being about average then I'll ask you, how in the world are we going to get an idea of how problematic one car might be? Last time I checked nobody owns 100 Lexus' or 100 MBs. We are trying to predict how problematic one car would be using JD survey of 100 cars.

None of this is GUARANTEED nobody can tell you this car brand will only have 1.39 problems. This is just to give you an idea of how many problems an average Lexus might have during 3 years of ownership.

Good at least you proved my second point.

JD Power survey is crap. If they ever want to be taken seriously they need do surveys on the severity of problems and use more than 100 cars.

100 cars is a joke. It sounds like some low budget survey being conducted by Jo in Alabama.

Well at least we know who still has 80% of their cars running. Wile Lexus has 80% of the crap they made at the junkyard already.

It's time to look at how flawed your brainless conclusion of 13% and 26% really is. I will use 1st grade analogy for you.

If somebody put 139 bombs inside of 100 cars (distributed unevenly) do you really think that you would have an 87% chance of picking a car without a bomb? According to you a Lexus has a 13% chance of having a problem in 3 years. Which means you have an 87% chance of getting a trouble free car in 3 years.

Sure whatever you say JT. Keep dividing problems by number of days. It sure makes a lot of sense in Toyota land. Get some medical help my friend.

Damn, I thought this thread would have died after falling off the main screen (I typically stop posting after that) but boy was I wrong.

You are correct the attessa AWD system on the G35 is from the skyline. However as Road and Track pretty much proved a month or two ago you got to keep updating the car with each successive year to keep up to date. Something Infiniti really did not do, or it would have place higher in the standings. I have never seen an documented improvement of any powertrain item in that line other than 300+ hp which if you look was because of revving it higher, probably always there. The Audi is a B7 platform which is essentially a B6 with minor revisions (year 2000), it is older than the G35, the difference is tweaking and adjustments over the years.

The new GTR will either blow everyone away or be in the middle of the pack. Either way they will sell everyone, marketing ain't it grand. Funny the production skyline is a pretty modest beast only the modified fire breathers gained it the reputation it has. Only time will tell.

That really is neither here nor there because when it came out it was a leader of the pack, and the 2wd variant is arguably a best bang for the buck in that class.

That is where we run into the quandry all of the discussion is about. Do you go for a singular statistic (JD Powers), a concept, a passion, or a combination? Infinity has severe issues, Toyota has issues, BMW, MB, Audi all have issues. You build a mechanical device and it WILL fail. For christ sake the shuttle is built to 99.99999% failure rate and we have lost two. So go figure.

Whatever you say Commonsense I mean JT.

If the MB is the one that is replacing major parts then maybe you can explain to me why is that 80% of MBs sold since the 50s are still on the road today.

Until recently your joke of a car didn't even use timing chains. I put over 300k miles on my 300CE without any problems. On the other hand my friends SC300 snapped a timing belt at 120k miles. Prior to the incident the car was burning more oil than gas and his AC broke (bad evaporator), so he just decided to junk the damn thing. Do you want to guess what he replaced it with? He bought a 98 CLK that still runs trouble free today.
Lets compare 92 SC300 junked in 98 with 120k mi.
98 CLK with 90-100k mi running without any problems.

FYI JT, 99% of all MBs in this country were sold by MBUSA.

What does private party sales have to do with anything? The car can be resold 5 times it doesn't matter. It all came from MBUSA and they know exactly where each REGISTERED car is. I bought my E320 used and guess what MBUSA knows that I am the new owner and where I reside.

THE SAME WAY THEY CAN TRACK DOWN ANY NEW OWNERS IS THE SAME WAY THEY KNOW THAT 80% OF THEIR CARS SOLD IN THE US SINCE THE LATE 50s ARE REGISTER AND BEING DRIVEN.

WHAT PART OF THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND JT?

Which part of "99% of MBs in the US were sold by MBUSA" don't you understand? It doesn't matter how many times a car was resold by private parties.

They were all sold (retailed) by MBUSA at one point or another.

Sometimes I wonder if you're hardheaded or just plain SLOW.

Whatever you say buddy. He can't say every or almost every because executives don't talk like that. Every MB would be a lie because some were not imported by MBUSA. Ever heard of Europa Importers? They imported the G class to a select few $$$ way before MBUSA started offering it.

All I know is that a 50s Gullwing will always be around. Your ES250 is almost extinct.

You should email JD and ask if they can do a survey of how many Lexus' since 90 are still on the road.
The Lexus brand is barely 16 years old and you hardly ever see any old LS and SC models from 92-94.
They were dime a dozen before. Today you might see one once a month and they look like crap (misaligned body panels, rust, etc.)

PS Don't forget who holds the Guiness record at 2.8 MILLION MILLIOM MILES.

Let's hope you can say the same in the year 2040.

Hmmm JD Powers rates Toyota 4th overall in New Zealand..... Well I guess the Lexus/Toyota satisfaction thing is just a phenomenon over here.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006072&search=1

Toyota 4th in South Africa as well

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005232&search=1

Now in the US Lexus is 2nd but toyota is 28th in satisfaction.

Lexus/Toyota is only is ranking high in the US where the typical driver does not know how to check his own oil level..

I guess the typical less educated drivers in the US have different prefrences.

in case you thought I forgot.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005227&search=1

Just went by the survey that JD Powers has out there on their site. But I made sure Lexus and MB both were in them. No need to do a Cambodian survey if MB isn't sold there.

Hey the new revised IQS is out on the 7th.. It will show if there are major issues, vs cup holder placement issue. Should be interesting.. That will either debunk one of us or add fuel to the fire.

If your friends buy a $70K car based off of the name. Then they indeed are fools. All of the wealthy individuals I know are better educated than that.

Your post speaks volumes. You sound like a 12 year old. "I will beat anybody with my FX."
The FX is the fastest car on earth.
You are such a loser. Maybe we should exchange emails and compare cars. I will put you to shame.

FYI, the E320 is my everyday car. How can one of the safest cars on earth be a piece of shit? Or the fact that I put 80k trouble free miles on it with only oil changes. Or the fact that my E320 will be around 20 years from now and your FX will be rotting at some junkyard.

BTW, this is not a cheap Lexus or Infiniti that uses timing belts every 80k miles. Ever heard of timing chains? I think Lexus finally came to their senses and switched over. Maybe Infiniti did the same. The boneheads finally figured out that longevity is more important than a few extra decibels.

So CommonSense you drag race on the street? ....rethink your name maybe to BoneHead!!!.

That was a BoneHead move no matter what age you are. Did you post it on the net to prove your manhood? Boy this really resonates with boy racers out there, big on ego and little on brains. Bet you worship the Skyline too. (more myth than fact)

After having a close friend put into a wheelchair by a street racer, who thought he could drive. He crossed over the median and collided with my friend’s Acura sitting at a light. When asked what happened he said he was too caught up in the moment to see where he was going. I can personally say, that you just lost my respect entirely. Racing on the street is, and always will be stupid, something you grow out of in your teens. Maybe Ben was right, and you are just a teen. I hope for your sake you grow out of it before you get killed.

No wonder you drive an FX, a pauper's Lexus, more worried about styling than quality I guess. Did you know Infiniti has the absolute record for the worst SUV in Consumer Reports history? (the QX, more than 300% less reliable than the avg.) That is a key indicator right there, of the research put into your purchases. A pretty face yes, but merely that.

Lets see, friend's that dump $70k for a name on a car, races his FX on the street. Sounds like you are not there just quite yet or you are full of it. Maybe in a few years you will have the maturity to act responsibly. Until then, you might need to refer to the others on this board as “Sir”. They deserve it more than you.