Toyota Lawsuits Don't Identify an "Actual Defect," Automaker Insists

They can't prove U.A. because it didn't happen.

Actually, the issue is that we have yet to prove that cases of alleged "unintended acceleration" are due to a *defect* in a Toyota car. Like the old Audi unintended acceleration debacle, numerous people believed their car ran away from them, and some people were actually injured or died. In Audi's case, when the dust settled, the cause was determined to be "pedal misapplication," or in less kind words, driver error.

I'm waiting until the dust settles in Toyota's ongoing battles, but so far, it appears to just be a replay of the Audi debacle.

They can't prove UA because Toyota won't release the software code.

How can anyone find the faults in the logic and control system without the code? Its like trying to determine cause of death without a body - nearly impossible.

Toyota should release the code to an independent third-party (with appropriate legal safeguards for proprietary information) and let them certify that the code is clean.

When customers report a suspected software defect (AKA "bug"), the first question is what conditions and steps are required to reproduce the problem? So far, nobody has been able to provide that information, and yet they are "certain" it's Toyota's fault. And like when you have a tech-support guy over your shoulder, and you reproduce what you *think* you did, and the problem does not appear, the logical conclusion is "pilot error" until there is a reason to suspect otherwise. So far, the "reasons" we have to suspect a Toyota defect *appear* to be the same as those we encountered when Audi was accused of this: a teensy, tiny, miniscule, handful of drivers who insist they were mashing the brake pedal when the car accelerated as though they were standing on the gas pedal. The vast majority of Toyota owners and operators, virtually all of them in fact, seem to be unaffected.

Again, I stress this does not mean there is no defect causing unintended acceleration. It only *suggests* that the most probable cause is likely driver error, as it was with the Audi debacle. We'll see.

Here is a partial list of conditions that the ECU is monitoring and making decisions on at any given moment in time:

1. Speed - transmission estimated
2. Wheel speed - all four wheels
3. Inlet air temperature
4. Exhaust air temperature
5. Reference air temperature
6. Throttle position command
7. Throttle position actual
8. Air mass
9. Crankshaft position
10. Camshaft position
11. Valve timing
12. Knock sensor
13. Fuel flow
14. Fuel pressure
15. Valve timing
16. Engine RPM
17. Manifold air pressure
18. Manifold valve position
19. Water temperature
20. Transient fuel
21. Lambda sensor
22. Gear selected
23. Operational mode
24. HVAC settings
25. Engine load
26. Battery charge state
27. Brake application

Now, combine this simple list (an actual list for a Prius is much larger) and recognize that each parameter from above is reliant upon a sensor. Each sensor has a range and resolution which must be taken into account.

Furthermore, each sensor may or may not be working normally or may have momentary transient behavior if it is in the process of failing but has not completely stopped operating.

Now, after reading this rudimentary explanation, it should be clear that there is no way that any driver can give you enough information so you can re-create the exact calculations in the ECU at any given moment when the vehicle malfunctioned.

The ONLY way to re-create all of the varied conditions (including sensor partial failures) is by computer simulation.

And to do THAT, you have to have the code from the ECU.

Asking a driver what he was doing when UA occured is almost useless because there is likely no link between driver inputs and UA.

If UA exists, it is most likely an error in the multi-dimensional "map" data and/or the vehicle/engine control logic which will only happen at a few very unique conditions that are transitional in nature (only momentarily acheived - non-steady state) and rely on partial failure of certain sensors.

In other worss, even though you have not seen the source code, or even examined the data-flow digrams, you understand precisely how the code works, and where this issue lies. Gee, the CSIs need you, thstone! ;-)

uhm... that's how automotive computers work in general? Traditional home computers are a bit more elaborate in that the user has full access to modify how it runs be it with software or hacking.

the ones that do are saved, the ones that have been told to pump the brakes in an emergency are screwed since they overheat the brakes and boil the brake fluid to the point that the vehicle doesn't slow down when they apply the brakes. Then again, you could always shift into neutral.

I'm full of shit eh? Why don't you go out in your car and hit the brakes repeatedly under full throttle.

drivers have the options of turning off the car, putting the car to neutral, hitting the brakes, pushing/pulling the parking brake, and yet they dont for some odd reason.

but I thought the majority of people who reported the defect were doing those things? it's the minority of shitty drivers that weren't.

no abs is not pumping of the brakes, when you pump the brakes in a run away situation like this, you give the vehicle time to speed up again. ABS does not engage when you are fighting the engine as traction isn't an issue.

lol funny, still insulted that kids in grade 8 are smarter then you?

Toyota will do everything they can to absolve themselves from it being a toyota defect because once they do that then they will be in a huge pile of litigation. Given toyotas history on legal matters they will likely shred or lie so they don't end up culpable.

" Corporations will do everything they can to absolve themselves from it being a defect because once they do that then they will be in a huge pile of litigation. Given Corporations history on legal matters they will likely shred or lie so they don't end up culpable." kpaxx


Fixed that for you. Don't make it sound like Toyota does anything different.