Saab scores a top safety pick

No it might not have the curves and lines of a BMW or a MB or a Lexus (which has been whored out more than a corner in East LA), but it's a different car. Some people want to drive them becuase they are different, because they don't want to pull up to a stoplight and be parked next to a handful of 3-series or Lexus ES', etc...

The one other reason I like Saab is that excluding the 9-7x, Saab hasn't taken anthing from GM. The cars are still manufactured in Europe. My wife's 9-3 is a great car with tons of room. No it's not the Aero but it still has plenty of power to get us up and going.


"no one worthwhile really cares anyway"

Interesting comment. Stupid, but interesting.

It's a Subaru in a nice outfit from the GAP. Nothing wrong with that, either. I've got 2 BMWs and a 24-year-old Mercedes diesel in the driveway, and believe me, I'm tired of European service issues.
Being able to get a decent-er looking Subie while keeping the AWD and reliability is a pretty compelling package. Who cares about Saab anyway? This is a safe, fun, reliable, inexpensive and practical car.

Next time you go into the BMW dealer with your 4-year-old 5-series because the 1. Amplifier's gone out. AGAIN! or, 2. The transmission bangs when it downshifts, or 3. Your tranny cooling lines have exploded in traffic, or 4. The front fenderliner's come loose on an interstate and ground itself down to shreds on the front tire (taking the outside temp sensor with it, which means the car thinks it's 40 below outside and won't allow the AC to work), or 5. The roof-mounted cellphone antenna develops a rain leak that intermittently disrupts the audio system, or 6. The radiator plastic hose connector fails.

Yes, folks, that fake Saab in the picture looks good to me today.

It looks like the previous generation of Subaru Legacy Wagon.
Well Subaru designs Saab's cars,they usually give them most of there old's skin.

Because Subaru's old skin still got the looks so why not wrapping it over some other a step down brand.


Saab = OLD Subaru


JUGNU

It looks like the previous generation of Subaru Legacy Wagon.
Well Subaru designs Saab's cars,they usually give them most of there old's skin.

Because Subaru's old skin still got the looks so why not wrapping it over some other a step down brand.


Saab = OLD Subaru


JUGNU

"Just cause wifey drives a Saab, it's understandable that you'd feel the urge to like the car."

...at some point [gert123456] your going to realize the more you assume like that the more you are wrong.

I have liked Saabs for a long time, for many reasons. Shoot me for not being a MB lover and absolutely go nuts for them. I turned my wife onto the Saab and she in turn tested them and compared them to other possibilities. <br>
<br>
And JUGNU.....I hope you are clearer in your statements when you say Saab=Old Subaru, since only one model (9-3x) is a re-badge of a Subaru. And yes before I am corrected the (9-7x) is a GM re-badge. I would like for Saab to redesign both and give them their own skin and parts like the 9-5 and 9-3. Then they'd be able to compete on their own and not rely on someone else's design.<br>

Don't be so ignorant. Saab may not compete in real terms with the big boys from Germany, but delve into their rich history and you will find much advanced engineering way ahead of its time.

Now days, the Saab product portfolio is either ageing or not really a Saab. The 9-5 is a very good car, but it overlooked and getting on in years.

One thing Saab's have always had is a quirky character, an unconventional design direction and cockpit-inspired interiors.

GM may have diluted this character, but do not dismiss Saab altogether. They have very skilled engineers capable of very good cars. Just wait for the new 9-5 due out in 2008.

Any true car enthusiast appreciates Saab for what they have achieved since they started putting aircraft-derived technology into road cars.

Worldwide, you will find thousands of Saab enthusiasts with a real passion for the cars they produce. Even Jeremy Clarkson loves them.

I'm sorry, but your comments reek of ignorance and a general disrespect for the famous name.

From the classic 900 Turbo:

To the modern day equivalent, the 9-3 Viggen:

Your comments were all false. Not one tiny bit of truth in them.

Subaru DOES NOT make Saab cars. Saab IS NOT a step-down brand compared with Subaru. Subaru DOES NOT give Saab their old designs.

The picture is not a Legacy wagon, it is the current shape Impreza wagon with a Saab front and rear end. This was a one-off and will not happen again. And for the record, Subaru commisioned Saab to help engineer the current Impreza because of the great job they did on the 9-2x.

If you are such a CARMAN, when why was everything you said totally untrue?

First of all u r not able to recognise the car above,and u r saying all this crap.

It's offcourse a 9-3 Sports Wagon.

Subaru has engineering links in Saab,but it's only Subaru who designs most of their cars and Saab don't design Subaru's (untill the last 2 years).
From 1-2 years Saab is wearing the GM's skin.(as usuall with GM cars)
U can also see the down fall of the company,after it was bought by GM.

Till it was a Subaru's brand,it was a success,but now......

And Mark,i also want Saab to design their own cars,there cars are either Subaru Re badge or GM's Re badge .

But it's true,teach something to this Mattew also.He don't believe in facts,and simply start arguing with the CARMAN.

Go do some research,and one more thing i tell u,
u know why Saab is so strongly built or always come up as a top Safety pick,because of Subaru's hand which is in it.

Next time before arguing with the CARMAN,collect the facts first.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

First of all u r not able to recognise the car above,and u r saying all this crap.

It's offcourse a 9-3 Sports Wagon.

Subaru has engineering links in Saab,but it's only Subaru who designs most of their cars and Saab don't design Subaru's (untill the last 2 years).
From 1-2 years Saab is wearing the GM's skin.(as usuall with GM cars)
U can also see the down fall of the company,after it was bought by GM.

Till it was a Subaru's brand,it was a success,but now......

And Mark,i also want Saab to design their own cars,there cars are either Subaru Re badge or GM's Re badge .

But it's true,teach something to this Mattew also.He don't believe in facts,and simply start arguing with the CARMAN.

Go do some research,and one more thing i tell u,
u know why Saab is so strongly built or always come up as a top Safety pick,because of Subaru's hand which is in it.

Next time before arguing with the CARMAN,collect the facts first.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

Subaru DOES NOT have anything to do with Saab, except for the fact they are both owned by GM

Subaru DOES NOT design Saab cars.

Subaru NEVER HAS designed ANY Saab car except for the 9-2x.

The Saab 9-3 and 9-5 are based on the Opel Vectra.

OPEL VECTRA.

Please, JUGNU, tell me which Saab models have anything to do with Subaru?

Which models? (excluding 9-2x)

"It's offcourse a 9-3 Sports Wagon."

No, it's a 9-2x.

"u know why Saab is so strongly built or always come up as a top Safety pick,because of Subaru's hand which is in it."

What? the 9-3 got a five-star crash rating, and that car has nothing to do with Subaru.

The 9-5 got a five-star crash rating, and that car also has nothing to do with Subaru.

A Subaru:


NOT a Subaru:


Get it?

tell me that u r not ready to believe or agree with me.

"Subaru DOES NOT have anything to do with Saab, except for the fact they are both owned by GM"

Subaru owned by GM????

Do u even have any sense,Subaru is brand of Fuji heavy industries,it's only 8-10 months now that Toyota bought a stake in it.

And by mistake i wrote 9-3 it is actually 9-2.

Can't u see in the above pic how much the old Subaru is present in it.

JUGNU

tell me that u r not ready to believe or agree with me.

"Subaru DOES NOT have anything to do with Saab, except for the fact they are both owned by GM"

Subaru owned by GM????

Do u even have any sense,Subaru is brand of Fuji heavy industries,it's only 8-10 months now that Toyota bought a stake in it.

And by mistake i wrote 9-3 it is actually 9-2.

Can't u see in the above pic how much the old Subaru is present in it.

JUGNU

Look incredibly similar to me, but the 9-5 was here first, so its hard to say that the subaru designed it.

JUGNU,

Lets clarify the fact that : GM still owns part of Fuji Heavy Works. They still own brands like ISUZU and their heavy trucks and suvs. They (GM) had to sell off its shares in subaru to have more cash flows. During their ownership they had about 20% (or less) stake in Subaru.Meaning they had a significant share in subaru. The 9-2X was developed by GM (2002) for SAAB to use the Impreza/ WRX wagon. As Matthew said, this is an one time thing and the 9-7x is also a one time thing. The 9-2X is a one time thing because GM no longer has shares in Subaru, second it is looking at OPEL to share parts with SAAB for future car development : 9-2X replacement and 9-7X replacements.

So at the time when the 9-2X came out till now, it is facelifted and has a better interior treatment Impreza/WRX. This is all due to GM's previous ownership that linked the 2 companies. Now Toyota bought GM's shares in Subaru.

As for the design of the cars. These two companies had no design collaboration except for the 9-2X which was borrowed from Subaru and applied a SAAB design to its exterior looks. As far as I know, SAAB uses their own design company and Subaru's designs originate from their own as well. Except recently the New Imprezza's front end facelift is by the Italian Design firm which also designed the Enzo and various ferraris.

We should also note that many companies like SAAB and SUBARU both uses other design firms to design some of their cars and not "in-house" design teams. It is safe to say that SAAB (new or old) are not designed by Subaru.

The above mentioned online sites all have at least one article each about the 9-2X's relationship with Impreza/WRX. It also has very detailed reports and articles about the GM, Fuji Heavy Works, Subaru, Toyota shares trading/selling relationship

Just wanted to make clear where I gathered my information from. If anyone wants they can simply search it up :)

Also, I believe GM wanted to link SAAB and SUBARU together in development of mechanics/engine/tech is due to both companies long history of flighter jet/ aircraft design applied onto cars. (FYI Subaru did design aircrafts before cars)

U all r partially right.U r right on shares issues,Toyota have them now.

But this thing that Subaru designed no more than 9-2x is wrong.
In the past Subaru designed many Saab's cars.

Ok leave it,look at this.

Do u know Saab's 9-6x crossover has been canceled,a casualty of GM's desicion to sell it's stake in Subaru.The planned 9-6x was a reskinned version of Subaru's B9 Tribeca.
The Subaru Impreza-the 9-2x will contineu untill 2007.

It means that Saab was not going to stop this reskinning tradition,if Suabru was still part of GM.But now Subaru is Toyota's,GM found the alliance between Saab-Cadillac.

And u will shortly see an X3 rival,Saab badged SUV from this alliance.

Moral of the Story:Saab still need someone else's hand in making and designing their new cars.
Before it was Subaru,now it's cadillac.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

U all r partially right.U r right on shares issues,Toyota have them now.

But this thing that Subaru designed no more than 9-2x is wrong.
In the past Subaru designed many Saab's cars.

Ok leave it,look at this.

Do u know Saab's 9-6x crossover has been canceled,a casualty of GM's desicion to sell it's stake in Subaru.The planned 9-6x was a reskinned version of Subaru's B9 Tribeca.
The Subaru Impreza-the 9-2x will contineu untill 2007.

It means that Saab was not going to stop this reskinning tradition,if Suabru was still part of GM.But now Subaru is Toyota's,GM found the alliance between Saab-Cadillac.

And u will shortly see an X3 rival,Saab badged SUV from this alliance.

Moral of the Story:Saab still need someone else's hand in making and designing their new cars.
Before it was Subaru,now it's cadillac.


JUGNU----->THE CARMAN

JUGNU, where do you come up with this stuff?

The 9-2x will not see past 2007. It will die. FACT.

The Cadillac BLS is based on a Saab 9-3. Tables turned?

The new range of Saab models will be either modified derivatives of the Opel Astra platform (new Sonnet) or a global GM platform.

Yes, you are right, Saab cars will share components with Cadillac. But they will still be Saab's, be designed by Saab, platforms will be re-engineered by Saab, engines will be re-engineered by Saab.

"In the past Subaru designed many Saab's cars"

Apart from the 9-2x, Subaru has had NOTHING to do with Saab at all. The 9-6x is dead.

What models did Subaru help create? Apart from the 9-2x, NONE.

The SAAB 9-6X was only in fetus form, and the only one which saw light was the 9-2X.

Yes i agree that GM had plans to integrate Subaru and SAAB in many levels, but that was years ago before GM went into near bankruptsy and sold their shares. The issue here is more or less about sharing of platforms, not design.

Is exactly alike with Ford and Volvo, Mercedes and Chrysler. The Volvo S40 uses the same platform as the Mazda 3 and Ford Focus, S60 and S80 uses the same flatform as the Mondeo. The Chrysler 300, Charger and Magnum all uses the E-class flatform. Does this mean the Ford designed the Mazda3 and S40, and Mercedes Designed the 300,Magnum and Charger? Of course not, it uses its underpinnings and some major components internally like transmission.

As far as I know the "so called" Subaru designed SAAB only occured on the 9-2X and 9-6X Concept form (where details of the crossover SUV is not well known to the public). I believe it only occured in one of the Car and Driver issue or Road and track about future concepts. It only went as far as R&D. It is a simple cost effective plan for GM to re-skin the front and rear end of the Impreza/WRX and marked it as 9-2x.

I believe the argument here is how do u define "many" in your statement "In the past Subaru designed many Saab's cars". I am afraid the 9-5, 9-3 are all genuine SAAB designs. Although the 9-3 uses the new GM global platform which shares with Opel. I believe SAAB only had 2 products before, and now it has the 9-7 (Chevy), 9-5, 9-3 and 9-2X. I am afraid the only "designed" by Subaru is 9-2X, so how can u say "many" with just one?

This is the first step for GM to expand the SAAB product line, much like the 9-7X now. These are intermediate steps for bringing new models to SAAB at the lowest cost possible. Other than the 9-2X I don't recall any other production models of SAAB designed (chasis, mechanics, flatform) by Subaru.

There has been several criticism on GM's plans for SAAB where its new products are all built outside of Sweden, but with the new SAAB Concept Coupe (supercar), future models and designs will remain in SAAB form using gobal platforms from GM.

For its car safety, SAAB's biggest competitor is Volvo. Both from Sweden. It is clear that SAAB had to make their cars safe inorder to compete with Volvos.

And about the point with SAAB depending on SUBARU and now GM to design its cars. I am afraid that SAAB's ownership is by GM since the 1990s (at least) and it was never collaborated with SUBARU untill GM collaborated the two for the 9-2X. Please get the Hierachy right.

And Did u also know SUBARU was a weak subsidery under Fuji Industrial's Domestic products in the late 1980's and early 1990s and after GM bought a part of its shares and saw its potential in all wheel drive and the WRC championships that Subarus got elevated? It can be argued that GM was one of the dirving forces in Subaru's development and success. GM did not OWN all of subaru, it just had a share in it.

While SAAB is in a different realm of GM ownership, where all designs, R&D, parts and components are provided by GM. SAAb was an independent company untill GM's purchase. Think of SAAB as in the same hierachy as ISUZU/ Fuji Heavy Works

Although I will add that that Saab-Subaru ties have been cut, and expect to see (as in the past) a close-knit tie with Opel. (Expected, as Opel will now manufacture the new wave of Saab models)

Also, safety has been a priority for Saab since its automotive inception, although I would suspect some rivalry between the two Swedish marques on all matters, be it safety or performance.