WHO Is Audi Hurting More? BMW Or Mercedes?

I would have to say a little of both. Audi is probably taking some SUV sales from MB with the Q5 and Q7 and probably some sedan sales from both BMW and MB. In the end I think BMW will get hurt more since Audi is more about being the sporty ride and better handling.

how the heck should we know, a bunch of speculation is not what I am interested in reading, how about you do your job and present the data for us to see... I would guess BMW is hurt most by Audi, but who cares about guesses

CarCrazedinCali,

One of the biggest factors in the world of brands is PERCEPTION with customers and potential customers.

That's why we're asking these questions.

001

For my two cents, I wish Autospies would ask less questions, incite fewer flames, and provide more information. But that's just me. YMMV.

I have been the customer and consider both brands and think I can answer the question from experience. In 03 I purchased an Audi A4 Cabr and then in 05 I traded for an 05 Lexus LS430. In both occasion I shopped BMW and Benz only to find Benz was out of my price range and BMW didn't have the ride and when optioned up was also to high. I think the answer is Lexus, they are more in line with price. I feel Benz and BMW both have strong loyal followers. I think Audi is a German entry class vehicle for many Asian and Domestics brand owners.

I'm currently in a E Class and hope to move to a new E or certified S. with in the year. After owning allot of cars I feel Benz is the car for me and plan to stay loyal to them going forward.

Dude. I do not know in which country you live but over here {UK/Europe}

A fully loaded Audi is priced no more than $500 below similar MB or BMW and in the case of RS Vehicles, they are priced Above AMG and M vehicles.

Now considering Lexus is usually priced significantly below its competition i do not see how Audi would be hurting Lexus.

I, From my experience, Cross-Shop Audi with BMW.

"Audi is a German entry class vehicle for many Asian and Domestics brand owners"? I definitely disagree. Most people that want to move up to a German brand usually consider BMW and MB because they are the more popular brands. I also think that Audi and Lexus appeal to totally different buyers. Just look at the design philosophy of the two brands. Audi is understated and generally appeals to a more technically inclined buyer. Lexus is showy and appeals to the masses. In other words, Audis are special because of the things you don't see. Lexus vehicles appear special to most people because of what you see on the surface.

I see the Audi haters have finally caught up with this thread. Have fun deboosting. It doesn't change the facts.

Last I checked Audi was a VW company sharing parts and platforms - nice cars but they really don't drive that well - sorry. So while they have done a good job taking market share from Mercedes and BMW I don't think anyone has really lost out we have all simply gained. The increased competition and innovation has forced BMW and Mercedes to up their game - in the end they should all do well. The question is who will prevail?

What is also sad is the fact that if you look at the industry - it is really just BMW left as the original standalone premium brands in the entire marketplace. Audi is doing well in #s but they are backed by the Toyota of Germany (VW) so its a very different profit and revenue model.

One thing does still does hold true, BMW and Mercedes have stood the test of time. Will Audi be able to?

hmm. uhn2000, much speculation with much false data. Audi is older than BMW and almost as old as MB, younger by only 3 years than MB. NCcarguy, nice try trying to make Audi less than BMW through some weird logic of price manipulation. I suggest you price a new A8L to see the fallacy of your argument not to mention the R8 V10 and GT. In Europe BMW and MB have been hurt by Audi as Audi is the leading premium brand. Simple as that.

uhn2000. By trying to fabricate an argument to justify your misinformed comment, all you did was contradict yourself. If Audis is just a VWs and they don't drive that well, why do you then say that they've forced BMW and Mercedes to up their game?

Very tough question. On one hand, Audi are offering a brilliant choice of engines and a range of vehicles that are performance and driver orientated - going head on with BMW. On the other hand, they are building up a strong reputation in the luxury segment, as well as offering superb comfort and some simply stunning designs - something that was once regarded as Mercedes' forté.

I think Mercedes will come out more 'damaged' than BMW, purely because BMW is very focused on what it wants to offer its customers. They are becoming more like Audi, focusing a lot more on comfort and design than they ever did in the past, without forgetting performance. Mercedes-Benz on the other hand are still quite a confused brand. I own an updated W221 S-Class and am convinced to downgrade to a 5 Series purely because the interior is nicer and can offer much of the same package for a lower price. The interior of the current pre-update C-Class looks cheap compared to the A4 and 3, and the E-Class's interior is disappointing when put against the A6 and 5. The supposed luxury brand-image Mercedes was once in firm possession of is also tarnished due to 2 vehicles: the A and B-Class. Why these vehicles couldn't just have a Smart badge whacked on them, I'm unsure of. Why Mercedes can't build a proper hatchback to rival the A3 and 1, I'm unsure of. The A-Class needs to go. The B-Class can be, and hopefully will be turned into an A3/1 rival in its next generation. Yes, the A and B-Classes have been considered 'sales successes', but at what cost?

Don't get me wrong, I think Audi is making one of the best looking cars inside and out. There is allot to like, I guess I'm old school and still see only two players here and the real question is where are Audi customers coming from. A real good indicator is looking at the used car lot. Its not Benz and BMW. I'm not saying they haven't lost some customer however I wouldn't be alarmed. I'm still holding that the Asians are providing most of the growth. I know some report would answer this for sure.

As for the price issue I brought up and some felt it wasn't valid, S class average 100K+ with a base of 93K. Audi A8L-84K BMW 750L-82K. I don't lease so 10K plays into my decision to buy. Also the sales number on the A8 and the 7 are not in the ball park. BMW is living off of 3 cars and Audi of A4. Benz C&E equally and total domination in the S class category.

When the time comes I will drive the new A8, however I havn't found anything I like better than a Benz yet. Most of these cars makes a great impression however the durability can't touch Benz. I have owned 3 and never seen cars hold up as well. Lexus LS430 was the most disappointing with leather showing wear after about 15K.

To each his own.

Definitely BMW.

Mercedes is sticking to their traditional formula of making comfortable cars that also handle well and have some sporty aspirations, but Audi is really focusing on the driving dynamics of their cars and the progress they've made is evident. What's even more amazing is that they're doing this with AWD and some FWD cars as opposed to a completely RWD-oriented BMW firm.

Naturally, BMWs will still be the choice for purists due to their RWD layout and overall better balance, but Audi products have their appeal and certainly drive well, to. I wouldn't an RS5 over an M3, which I see so often I get bored of them.

Audi has made great strides and I really like their vehicles, but I think we're putting the cart before the horse a little bit with flame bait articles like this. Here are the numbers for 2010 vs 2009 for Audi and BMW:

BMW
2009 - 196502 units
2010 - 220113 units, up 23611 from 2009, a 12% increase

Audi
2009 - 93506 units
2010 - 101629 units, up 8123 from 2009, a 9% increase

Despite all the articles about how much marketshare Audi is gaining, Audi didn't gain marketshare on BMW, they lost it. And that was with BMW spending the bulk of the year with a lame duck 5-Series and X3, two high volume models that will see enormous gains in 2011 versus 2010 when the replacement vehicles are out for the whole year (plus the X1 is coming, which for 2010 was the #1 selling SUV in Europe).

With that said, I'm not a "volume" person, frankly I hate the idea of luxury brands chasing volume titles. What is really important is money, and I think the VW/Audi/Porsche/Lambo connection is going to be massively beneficial for Audi because of how much they'll save on development of new vehicles. By sharing the pieces (and the costs) among all their brands, they're not only going to be making better vehicles but they're going to be able to pull in much more profit than independent companies like BMW and Benz and then turn right around and reinvest that into even more development and advertising. So they're positioned very well for the future.

Audi sales for 2010 were up 23% not 9%.

Audi shatters all-time U.S. sales record in 2010; brand expects momentum to continue into 2011

• December 2010 marks the best fourth quarter in Audi of America history, leading to all-time U.S. sales record topping 100,000 vehicles for the first time
• Historic 2010 sales propelled by demand for TDI clean diesel vehicles, as the Audi Q7 TDI and Audi A3 TDI account for over 43% and 53% of sales mix, respectively
• Company sustains forward-looking product and technology investment strategies

HERNDON, Va., Jan 4, 2011 – Audi today announced all-time record U.S. sales of 101,629 vehicles sold in 2010, surpassing the prior record of 93,506 vehicles sold in 2007. Due to strong and continued consumer demand for Audi premium vehicles, 2010 marked the best year Audi has ever enjoyed in the U.S. market. The new Audi record resulted from record performances in all three U.S. regions.

In December 2010, Audi reported sales of 10,456 vehicles, a 16.8% increase over the 9,030 vehicles sold in December 2009. For the full year of 2010, Audi new sales rose nearly 23% versus its prior full-year total of 82,716 vehicles sold in 2009.

I got those figures from an article so if they had 2009 and 2007 flipped I apologize. BUT even if Audi went up 23% from 2009 that means they increased 19000 units. BMW increased 23600 units from last year. So that's still increasing their lead in the U.S. It's a smaller percentage, but still more.

The article did not flip 2007 and 2009, you did. The facts are the facts contrary to what you said, Audi gained market share on BMW. Good for BMW, their unit sales increase was some 4,000 units higher than Audi. I would hope so, BMW has 3.5 times the owner base and 4 times the marketing budget, not to mention more model derivatives.

R.L. Polk data through October of 2010 (latest available figures)total U.S. market share

Audi 2009 - 8.14%, 2010 8.75% - + .61
BMW 2009 - 18.99%, 2010 18.33% - -.66

+.61 to -.66 coincidence?

Audi is going to hurt BMW more. I know that both will be affected but obviously Mercedes has a more Luxurious reputation while BMW has a more Sporty Reputation. Audi is aiming for a little bit of both but is geared more towards performance so BMW would be more affected than Mercedes.

Great point JRob.........

What no one is looking at though is how will the Porsche angle fit into this now that it is back in the VW fold and will it affect Audi?

Media and ad-wise Audi has had huge success this past decade and the R8 was a big part of it. But with Porsche now taking over the sports car mantle for the group and Audi being relegated to "SUV" status this could have huge repurcussions for Audi in the next decade.

Porsche is notorious for its ego(rightly so)and something tells me that Audi won't be in the media spotlight nearly as much going forward.

That means both MB and BMW have a chance to regain some lost brand image over the next ten years if they play their cards right.........

I see what you're saying, but the flipside of the argument is that if Porsche is in charge of building the sports cars for the group, that probably isn't going to hurt Audi much because Porsche happens to make some pretty damn good ones. Sticking an Audi shell on a Porsche and charging less for it is probably going to result in a pretty compelling Audi. The Panamera, for example, basically defies physics with its speed and handling. The only knock anyone has on it is the looks (and the price). Well, take that chassis and put a body on it that people don't think is hideous for $15k less and you have a best seller (and it's already a great seller for Porsche despite the looks). Same thing with the Cayman/Boxster and whatever Audi version of the car would be (R4?). So not only would Audi be getting much more dynamic sports cars than they have now, but it ends up saving both Porsche and Audi a ton of money as they share the development costs instead of coming out with completely different cars, which you know they're not going to just "pass on" as savings to the consumer. They'll both be raking in money.

Audi has made significant gains against both Mercedes-Benz and BMW in the United States during 2010. Some markets are stronger for Audi than others. For instance, in 2009 Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Acura outsold Audi in Seattle, for 2010 Audi outsold all 3 of those brands in Seattle and the entire state of Washington. That type of success is spreading throughout the U.S. for Audi. This is easily verified through R.L. Polk registrations.

There is no clear way to tell until the market returns to normality.

Gawd your smart.

For me, both. I traded a BMW X5 for an Audi Q5 and my Mercedes AMG CLK55 for an Audi S4. Wasn't intentional, just ended up that way.

It would appear that Audi is hurting BMW more than Mercedes-Benz

Total U.S. market share
2008 2010 (Oct. YTD)
BMW 20.97% 18.33% -12.6%
MB 18.99% 18.37% -3.3%
Audi 6.56% 8.44% +28.5%

BMW is growing much faster in China than Audi. And BMW has a smaller gap to Audi in China than the huge gap BMW holds over Audi in America. The rate BMW is growing in china is faster than the rate Audi is growing in America.

VW only hurting itself with all of its brands battling internally.

This must be the worst auto website on the planet, i've been reading some of the so called "articles" from these so called "agents" and it is such a load of drivel.

Seriously, please have a look at the European car websites for some info on how to really report auto news. Also i see many of your pieces are actually from websites such as autocar.co.uk, worldcarfans etc

i will not be visiting this website anytime soon except to laugh my ass off at your retarded debates....Americans know nothing about cars except Nascar

I've noticed more chodes driving A4s, so I guess BMW.