VIDEO REVIEW: Lexus GS450h

I'm no fan of CVT's but I do like this car. The R & T review was a little bogus just because the had a 6 speed bmw vs. a cvt lexus.

U are smart, it is good to see someone on here thats not praising the toyota, i mean lexus for every little thing that they do. Most of their ideas, designs, and even names come from mercedes-benz.

Yeah...but last time I checked today's cars do not run on steam or cooking gas. They are powered by internal COMBUSTION ENGINES. Therefore Mr. Daimler and Mr. Benz get the credit for inventing the car and motorcycle.


Back to the topic. The boneheads at Toylex are completely missing the point here. Who in their right mind would buy a "SPORTS" sedan that is dragging 400-500lbs of batteries in the trunk?
On top of that the longevity of the hybrids is still a big unknown.

...and don't even get me started with the stupid LS600h. Last time I check anybody that can afford a $100k car could care less whether a gallon of gas costs $2 or $4.

Every luxury sport manufacturer is looking for ways to cut weight and the boneheads at Toylex just added 400-500lbs of batteries....HELLO!!!!

You would have to be really stupid to buy one of these.

Wake up buddy!!! Where did I mention acceleration times?

I was talking about overall performance of a car. Anybody that knows anything about performance knows that you need to find ways to make the car lighter not heavier.

Are you trying to impress somebody with those numbers?

Your porker weighs almost as much as a S55, which is a full size luxury car, and the S55 will wipe the floor with that Lexus with a 0-60 of 4.5 sec.

This is what I don't get about you die hard Toylex boys. No matter how bad of an idea they have you keep defending it.
I would rather get a GS430 and find ways to make it faster than buying the same car with 400lbs of batteries in the trunk that you could never get rid of. THIS CAR IS A STUPID IDEA, WAKE UP!!!!

If this car ever sells it will be due to superior marketing and idiot fans.

If we go by your logic we might as well find out who invented the wheel and give him all the credit. Don't worry it was probably another German guy.

I know it's hard for you but you need to face the facts. The Japanese never invented anything of significance. Most of the technology we have today can be credited to a few bright Germans and most importantly Mr. Nikola Tesla.

You might want to read your link. It's called a mystery. You obviously never heard of migration either. Here is something for you to think about. According to your link the oldest known wheel was found in Mesopotamia.

"The Germans can be traced in historical records to the regions surrounding the Black and Caspian seas, which border on the ancient Mesopotamia."

Walkmans and Discmans? You should be a comedian. You might want to look up the name Nikola Tesla.

Ben: WHITE GERMAN POWER!!!! ARGHHH!!!!!

* *
>
O======8

Get over it, Ben! What is with your Germany is better than every other race, country, etc.? Grow up, get a life, and get your head out of Germany's ****!!!

You need to learn how to read. I never said he was German. I said a few bright Germans and Nikola Tesla should be given credit for most of the TECHNOLGY we use today. There is a big difference between technology and umbrellas.

There are a few problems I have with TODAY'S hybrids. First they add unnecessary weight. Like I said before from a performance point of view it's better to purchase a GS430 and make it faster than buying a hybrid with 400lb of batteries in the trunk.

Anybody that knows simple math would realize there is hardly any fuel savings. Is the couple hundred dollars you save per year on fuel worth the depreciation in the long run?

We still don't have a clue about the potential problems and the cost of fixing these cars in 10 years.

Diesel engines are a proven technology that have existed for many decades and can outlast any gasoline engine. Diesels used to be noisy and slow, but technology changed all of that.

Please don't give me the environmental pitch. We all know hybrids will pollute more in the long run than a similar conventional car.

Did you see JC's video review in which the S550 won the prestigious environmental award over the Prius?
That is pretty embarrassing considering that the S550 is a full size luxury saloon with 400hp.

Do we have to go down this road again? MB does not and will not have Hybrids anytime soon. At least not until they become more efficient. Seems like you and huu are smarter than the company that did the long term survey on Toyota's hybrid scam.

MB will experiment and introduce hybrids with the Chrysler name, but don't hold your breath for a Prius style S class with 400-600 lbs of batteries in the trunk.


There is a bigger chance of seeing a fuell cell S class than a hybrid one. Unless the hybrid technology becomes a lot more efficient with impoved components and diesel engines.

Let me turn the tables on you now. Why are Honda and Toyota all of a sudden interested in diesels?

The Japanese in the past have made it very public that they are not interested in the oil burners.

http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=7562

Watch the whole thing. You'll see him mentioning the Prius in one of the segments.

If I get a good opportunity I'll take a picture for you. BTW, this is a very common problem. You can go to any Wal-Mart parking lot and look for an old Camry with broken door handles.

Does this sound familiar "so you can take less from the environment” or something along those lines.

I wonder how much they took from the environment to make one of those pigs that won't even see 100k mi in its lifetime.

Damn you have a lot of time on your hands. If you knew how to read or watch and listen to a simple video you wouldn't have to go through all that trouble. Nobody ever claimed the S550's 400 hp engine is cleaner that the Prius engine.
It was the whole package of the car. The way it was built, the clean engine considering the output, etc.

Since you have so much time on your hands go and find a non-hybrid engine from Toyota with similar performance and let me know if the engine is cleaner.

spanked the S430 and S500.

Seems like you have a hard time watching and listening to a simple video as well. It wasn't a magazine it was the FIRST EVER ENVIRONMENTAL CERTIFICATE from the German TUV agency.
This is not some rubbish magazine that gives out awards every year.

Get you head out of Toyota’s ass. The Prius is a scam. It’s already been proven by independent studies to be more harmful to the environment in the long run than a similar sized conventional car.

California is trying to pass a law that will require Prius owners to pay a disposal fee.
WAKE UP!!!!

The only reason the hydrocarbon emissions are lower is because the fuel spent is less over all. However the amount remains the same for amount of fuel spent. So if a 8 cylinder burns one gallon of gas it is the same amount of pollutants as the 4 cylinder burning one gallon of gas. The fuel to air ratio is the same. While I agree that Prius will burn less gas over time than a conventional engine (due to the electric assist) I have great reservations of the amount of pollution the battery packs will give out over time in a land fill.

Yes batteries can be recycled, but I would be willing to bet that process itself, has hazardous by products unto it’s own. The long-term residual pollutants from battery pack disposal are unknown at this time.

huu don't it! Good point!

You two need to join us back on earth.

Don't twist this into a S550 or S65 engine vs. Prius engine. Nobody ever said that 400-600hp engines are cleaner that a Prius engine.

I brought up the certificate because it was the first of it's kind. This is not some biased magazine that gives out awards.

Can you imagine a smaller diesel car built similarly to the S550? Which one do you think is going to do less harm to the environment?
I'm not a tree hugger, but I have enough common sense to see that a diesel car is a much better choice for the environment than the Prius SCAM. There is nothing environmentally friendly about it.

Prius:
1. A lot more energy to produce
2. Toxic batteries
3. Slow
4. Questionable long term reliability
5. Good Mpg and emissions only when driven slow around town
6. Turns into trash and an environmental hazard after 100k mi

Similar sized clean diesel car:
1. Less energy to produce
2. No toxic batteries
3. Good power
4. Super reliable
5. Good mpg no matter where it is driven. You can run it on vegetable oil for ZERO emission.
6. Just starting to break in @ 100k mi

>>JT - Toyota is working on recycling at this time.

Maybe that should have been a bit better thought out before they market it.

Huu76 - Styrofoam has a nuclear shelf life.

I agree with you a bit, but I don't think styrofoam in the ground really has the same effect as battery acid and lead to the ground water you drink.

My questions is, are we trading air pollutants for a later day issues of ground pollutants. Most of the eco friendly nations seem to have agreed to that and went the other way. But we Americans always seem to go to the beat of a different drummer.

huu done it!.... I just ruined it beyond belief... not good with words today.

Are you at all aware that every diesel can run on vegetable oil for a true ZERO emission vehicle? Not low emission, but ZERO emission. The Prius is nowhere near being a zero emission vehicle.

You might want to read this article before you start preaching about hybrid crap.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/mercedes_benz/mercedes-benz-m-class-25-08-05.asp

Did you notice the 10.8% better fuel mileage for highway driving and only 0.42mpg (not even 2%)less in city driving for the MB diesel?

Talk about being ignorant. Please don't start the ifs. You need to face the facts the Germans are way ahead again as always. They are well on their way to burry the STOLEN Prius technology.

Nice strategy from Toyota...mass produce a problem and hopefully somebody will find a solution in the future.

Imagine if everybody adopted this genius Toyota strategy.

MB and BMW would already be mass producing hydrogen cars. Let somebody else worry about making them lighter, safer or how to get the hydorgen to the customers.

Remember this:

"Maybe by the time the future has come around, the "problems" of disposing and taking care of the battery packs will have been solved??"

"One more time just for clarity, the video never mentioned that the S550 was cleaner than the Prius. It won the award because the judges were impressed by how "ethically" it was built."

My point exactly. You and huuhuu are trying to change this into a battle of the engines.

But whatever takes away attention from the hybrid crap. Do you have a comment on how the ML320 CDI destroyed the stupid RX330h?

RX 330? RX 400h? Which one?!

RX400h

"That article is just nonsense, it's just rigged to let MB to win. Now all you need is for everyone to commute from NY to San Fran everyday for work."


You come here and compare a VW TDI engine to the hybrid, but when put up against the new super clean diesels you call it nonsense. Go and hide in your hole.

The diesel lost by only 0.42 miles in city driving. Does the 0.42 justify driving around a pig that caused more harm to the environment during production and will cause a lot more harm when it comes time to dispose the POS after 100k mi.

BTW, last time I checked most people spend a lot more time on highways than in bumper to bumper city commutes. I live in a big city in CA and most of my commute is on highways.

Toylex boy,

What planet are you from?

You might want to contact the people that are trying to pass a law for Prius owners to pay disposal fees. Lets see if you can convince them with your genius theory.

Or maybe you are smarter than the people @ CNW Marketing Research Group.

Read this before you start posting your crap again:
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=17&art_id=15821&sid=7367550&con_type=1

Don't try to be smart.

The difference is 10.8%. Don't come here and start posting your 2 mile crap just to make the difference appear smaller for people that don't know simple math.

Why don't you take your stats and multiply them by 20 gal or 100 gal and we'll see how insignificant the 10.8% really is.

On a tank of gas the ML will cover 512 miles compared to the 460 miles by the RX. For a difference of 52 mi on ONE tank of gas.

5 fill ups and the ML will have a 260 mi advantage.

By the time we get to 10 the ML will get a free tank of gas to cover another 512 miles. Do I need to go on?

FYI, if you are truly buying a SUV for its purpose, which is hauling and off roading you might be more interested in the torque of the engine and not hp.

Keep defending the environmentally hazardous pig.

If you can't see the direct relationship between materials that require a lot of money to dispose of and materials that are potentially more hazardous to the environment than I suggest you go back to school.

The is no logic of a LARGE hybrid, there simply is not enough saving to justify it. Honda is discontinuing the Accord V6 Hybrid for that very reason, The Highlander and Escape Hybrids are disappointing in sales and both are being discontinued.

The new luxury Hybrids ARE NOT gas sippers, they are using the electrics to improve performance and get a bit extra mileage to boot. But the results are nothing earth shattering.

The consumer is confused to a degree after being pounded over and over that the Hybrid is the almighty answer to the worlds gas woes. To them these models make no sense. They see Hybrid and look for the EPA mileage and say “is that all it gets?”. They will not buy this on the premise of a hybrid.

Here is an article that outlines the marketing of these models:

http://www.autosite.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_page_order_int/3/article_id_int/1478

It seems like they are using the "Hybrid" as a marketing scheme vs. using a more efficient design to extrapolate real HP and economy gains from their gas counterparts.

Add 500lbs of battery weight and another motor to gain a few hp and better mileage. And you guys thought the Germans were complicated?

Back to you old tricks ha JT?

It's 10.8% and yes for people that need an SUV, but are concerned about gas mileage (which is what the RX is trying to promote) it's a huge difference.
Getting 512 mi and 460 mi from one tank is a huge difference for people that want an SUV, but the economy of a sedan.
Last time I checked these are not performance cars, so spare me the hp and 0-60. Are you planning to race somebody with an RX400H or did you buy it to tow a boat?

If you want to make a performance statement with your SUV then go and buy a Porsche Turbo or the new ML63.
Both will mop the floor with that RX pig.

Here is another for you:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/04/03/study-a-hybrid-consumes-more-energy-in-lifetime-than-a-hummer/

While we are on the subject of hypocrisy look at how JT insists the 10.8% better MPG is insignificant because it's in MB's favor.

Well if this is true then the ML350s 20mpg is also insignificant.
Why the hell did Lexus even release the RX400h?
The gasoline version of the RX gets 20/25 mpg and does 0-60 in 7.3 sec

Let me get this straight people are paying Toyota more money to haul around toxic batteries, get less mpg, take a huge depreciation hit, get charged disposal fees by the government, and to end up throwing it away after 100k miles. THIS IS GENIUS!!!!

TOYOTA HAS ONE HELL OF A MARKETING TEAM TO SELL THIS TYPE OF CRAP.

like the 60mpg Prius.

I have some land for you in Florida too.

Brush up on your facts a bit.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/05/25/BUGK8J1JK11.DTL&type=printable

Honda Accord Hybrid & Toyota Highlander, are both discontinued due to sales. Also the Escape Hybrid is on the way of the Dodo too.

There is a trend out there and it is becoming obvious. The consumer is starting to realize that few of the “Hybrid thingies” actually deliver what they say. As the consumer becomes more savvy only the true savers will survive. Read that as small cars with small engines.

I guess they join the revolutionary RAV4 EV rusting away in the boneyards. Luckily for us they on made only 1250 of those over 5 years.

Now that is was a profitable venture for Toyota.

"The result of these power hybrids is great fun and improved efficiency, when compared to vehicles of similar performance character"

Hmmm I read that as. "We can’t make a fun and efficient car without resorting to a battery and a motor to aide our uninspiring drivetrains." I guess your point of view might slant that comment a bit.

Funny the Germans seem package it just fine. They seem to be the unequivocal benchmark accord to the press.

Right after the paragraph of the Accord Hybrid being dropped this is the next line of the next paragraph.

"The Toyota Highlander Hybrid sport utility vehicle met a similar fate."

It's actually 2.6 miles. FYI, the difference between the RXh and the ML350 is 3 miles and 4 miles for the ML500, which btw will blow the doors of the RX.
If 2.6, 3, or 4 miles per gal is insignificant why did Lexus even bother with the RX400h?

You are such a hypocrite. It's only insignificant because it's an MB.

IT'S 52 mi EXTRA PER TANK OF GAS. I don't know about you, but I would love to get another 50-60 miles out of ONE TANK.

The CDI might get to 60 slower, but it will do everything else much better than the RX PIG. Care to go offroading, or slalom test, or a hauling test, braking test, mileage endurance test, etc.?

Nice car. Toyota gets slap to the back.

Whatever makes you feel better about driving you overpriced Toyota crap. Just make sure you steering shaft doesn't break in half while your cruising in your "advanced" car.

I didn't dodge your last post. I replied.

BTW, I still have that land in Florida for you.

Lexus kicking butt on all fronts?
HA

Lexus worldwide sales are half of Audi's sales are worldwide. Yep they kicking somthing!

BTW Lexus sold on 20,000 units in europe for all countries. Wonder why? The main reason it they are pretty boys. That market demands a modicum of performance which the Lexus models over there do not have.

I guess what we see is a defining moment here. Lexus is a "Luxury" car, but not a "Premium" car by any respect.

some how I left this out by mistake:

Although Lexus has had phenomenal success in the US since 1991-1992 — within 3 years of its introduction in 1989 — it has been struggling outside North America, including its home country, Japan, where the Lexus brand started marketing in 2005 and is still waiting for the arrival of the LS series due later this year, and in particular Europe. Automotive analysts have pointed out that Lexus has been so successful in North America because the wide consumer base of Toyota and in particular the baby boomers wanted something more luxurious as they were becoming older and their surplus incomes were allowing them to migrate to brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW. The huge success of Lexus was in part due to the fact that its higher levels of quality and cut-rate prices enabled it to retain those migrating customers and keep them "in the family".

"Did you also realize that the RX has a smaller tank than the M Class? Of course the range is much larger on the M Class because the RX only has a 17.7 gallon tank while the M Class has 25.1.

Of course you decided to leave out that info because you want to make Mercedes look better. Whose the one being biased now? Hypocrite."

This post takes the cake. It shows the level of your intelligence. I can't believe I'm even having a discussion with you.

It doesn't matter how big their tanks are. I chose to calculate mileage with 20 gal each. It doesn't matter that the stupid RX has a small 17 gal tank. That' pathetic for an SUV. However, it doesn't surprise me because the RX is actually a Camry on stilts.

If I really wanted to calculate mileage per tank with the capacities you provided it would have been ML 643 miles vs. RX 407 miles. For a difference of 236 miles.

You're such a loser. Grow a brain a come back.

Would you also sacrifice a potential 2.7 million more miles on the ML’s engine...LOL

Let me guess you would rather drive the RX for 100k miles and then throw it away.

Face it buddy when it comes to an SUV the ML will blow the RX in every single category.

So you fund out the CDI sacrifices a little bit of speed. Big deal. It will do everything else better. Name one other category that the RXh can beat the CDI.

Isn't the RXh advertised as having performance of a V8? I don't see it. The ML with a 10 year old engine beats it by more than half a second to 60. When it gets the new 550 engine it will mop the floor with the RX and the ML63 is on a whole different level. It will put many sports cars to shame.

You come here and brag about it being quicker than the CDI as if 7.4 sec to 60 is something to be proud of. Especially for an SUV that is being advertised as having PERFORMANCE OF aV8 and the economy of a V6. PLEASE SPARE ME THE LAUGHS.

Poor choice of words on my part, but I backed up everything with the research from CNW. You might want to read it before you start posting crap again.

Your links are called ROAD TESTS. CNW is a research company that does LONG TERM STUDIES. DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE or SHOULD I EXPLAIN IT TO YOU?

When you learn the difference between a road test (short or long) and a study then come back and maybe we can continue this discussion.

Compare apple to apples bubba

2005 Sales Worldwide
Audi 829,100 vs
Lexus 287,927

VW 5,240,000 vs the Toyota 6,851,938 including all of the obscure brands Toyota owns in China(these figures are minus heavy trucks and buses with them Toyota is over 8 million which is your figure, did you realy want to include dump trucks and buses?)

To me it looks like Lexus has a way to go, now doesn't it?

So what was your point?

JT I agree Lexus needs more time to figure it out outside the US. They will do fine. I was talking about current issues, not future.

You live in a bubble!

"The sun is setting on German car manufacturers because they refuse to change. Hybrids are the first nail in their coffin."

Sales are up for almost ALL German makers (even VW). You truly have a distorted view. What your sales success is coming from in the US particularly. It the division of the American maker’s sales, not the failure of the German market.

Just because the Europeans have dealt with this in a different way means little in the fact they do not have alternative. Even Nissan has said, “Hybrids are not the answer”. Hybrids are a very small market (1% of total US Sales), and the recent spikes in gas has caused a fear factor to exist for many tree huggers.

Hybrids IMHO have some merit, but right now they are simply not cost effective (which is what the typical buyer expects). If you want to make a social statement, then a Hybrid will fit you needs perfectly.

Your argument also fails on the merit that any sales decrease is because of lack of Hybrids. Well the Hybrids have not helped Ford (the Escape sales are faltering), Honda is dropping the Accord Hybrid, and Toyota has stated openly the Highlander sales have been a disappointment. So what are you smoking that has changed your reality?

Are hybrids on the decline? Heck no. But the new low-sulpher Diesel fuel already out the battle will heat up. He next-gen diesels will hit our shores soon, and you my friend will see a new battle. The true results will be known in 10 years.

There will be a market for both, but I see the Hybrid moving towards an all electric mode and away from gas to maintain a “Green Advantage”. BTW you also fail to realize that BioDiesel is a threat to your Hybrids.

You might laugh now but who currently is working on BioDiesel production? None other than Wal-Mart. Last time I remember they have more than a hand full of gas stations.

So funny, you compare a mainline maker with a premium maker sales. What is the point?

Lets see, guess what, Toyota sells more cars in Uzbekistan than Ferrari does, so it must be better. Get real again APPLES to APPLES. Toyota and BMW will never compare on sales.

It is not a valid criteria.

Really if you think of it Lexus slaes doesn’t compare to BMW either.

Well I researched it a bit and let me give the REAL truth on Toyota sales in Europe:
Bend on over and wipe yourself, you just spewed a whole load in your last post.

Toyota currently ranks 7th

Ahead on them in sales are:

VW 554903 units +14.2%
Renault 475055 units -12.4%
Opel/Vauxhaul 495228 units -5.1%
FORD 454637 units -1.7%
PEUGEOT 397104 units -2.4%
CITROEN 335256 units -2.4%
FIAT 327125 units +19.7%
TOYOTA 295822 units +0.4%

And the list goes on and on. Get your fact straight before you say something. I do like toyotas .4% increase looks like they are gaining on Fiat! LOL

According to your logical Fiat is better than Toyota.

Reference: http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10006232.shtml

Well if you strip your fluff you see a few things..

1. “Toyota sales has risen last 9 years in a row”...well actually most of the European and total industry sales have done the same. In case you have heard car sales are on the increase in general. This is not a stand out figure.

2. Toyota is worth twice as a much because they make far more than automobiles under the Toyota banner. For example:

They include in their vehicle sale heavy trucks and buses. Last time I looked BMW didn't make a bus. That is almost 1/5 of their total sales. They also make houses (the kind you live in). They make traffic control infrastructure, IT solutions, Marine craft, Agricultural industry (they do farming), and others. So they better be worth more overall.

Source: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/

3. Prius Global sales top 500,000 (cumulative since 1997) That is only 50,000 a year avg. Not bad but Europe sold over 7 million Diesels last year. So you have a way to go when it comes to getting there.

4. Toyota German CSI winner, 4th consecutive year Again Toyota is not a competitor to BMW. They make ECONOMY CARS, the low end of the spectrum. Lower end consumers are less demanding and expect less and get less in return. The ratings do not compare overall. EVEN JD Power admits that the benchmark for economy cars is far easier to hit. Again apples to apples.

5. Prius European car of the year award 2005.. Congrats but Toyota has two winners in 35 years of trying. Also Alfa Romeo has won 6 times. So in a few years you will be where they are. The main reason the Prius and the Yaris won was for gas mileage. According to the awards, not quality,

1. You are isolating one year but also stating 9 years of growth. Which is it? Also stop the Toyota vs BMW, or MB , or Audi. None of these marquees compete with Toyota. You can compare Lexus, however this hurts your case.

2. Sales are reported however the maker wishes. Toyota tends to sell alot of mass-transit vehicles, and include them in vehicle sales. Last time I looked we were not comparing these unit for sales. But you like to keep the figures in your corner, because they help your case. You don't see Subaru adding in earth movers, or Hyundai listing oil tankers in their auto sales. Toyota made 12 bil on cars alone...hmm sounds like all of the rebadging is going to the bottom line. GM realized profits akin to that, but the public finally figured it all out. And look where they are.

3. Just goes to show you how long it took the American public to jump on the Hybrid band wagon. It is amazing what a good PR firm can sell. The sales are impressive however will be short lived.

4. The european markwet is very diverse and demanding. That is why Lexus (the original topic BTW) is faltering. They are asking for basic performance that the Current camry clones can't give. Garbage in garbage out..

5. I agree 2 wins is a start, but far from a world class effort. Only time will tell in this.

Most of your links were from europe yes. But I care to look at all sources not those pulled from the Toyota press release site. I find I get a more rounded view.



BTW Congrats on Toyota for setting personal record for them. 10.2% of all Toyotas made last year were recalled. Nice to know the benchmark of quality can set a bar that high. 1 in 10 need a recall to fix them...yahooo!

Toyota and BMW compete for different segments of the market, well documented. Toyota is mainline, and luxury. BMW is premium segment. They are totally different clientele and types of vehicles. Price is irrelevant in this comparison.

1 in 10 is ridiculous. If you share parts (and I agree you must) design them to meet the most stringent tests and make sure you hold your suppliers accountable by testing regularly and independently.

$12 billion in profit is great; I wonder how much of that came from agriculture vehicles, buses, earthmovers, and other transport that BMW does not make. You need to pair down the list to relevant items. That is hard to do.

Toyota DOES have the right products in the right markets in general. Lexus is trying to find that, and this is where the issues are at this time.

Lexus:
Will they figure it out? Heck yes!
Will it take new more aggressive models than in the US? Heck yes!
Can the build it on lower line platforms? Time will tell.

They whole point is Lexus is lagging outside the US. It is a fact. Something you seem to avoid.

You are correct the Europeans are very bias. Just watch Top Gear to see it. However they do have points that must be taken in consideration for them to be successful.

1. We Americans place an over emphasis on reliability, almost to a paranoia level. Lexus excels at this statistic and leverages it to their advantage in the US. The Europeans lean far more towards the actual driving experience and mileage. Lexus tend to be softer and the lack of refined diesels hurts them over there.

2. Many Lexus models are viewed as overdone Toyotas. Whether truthful or not, the case in point is the Europeans want breeding and heritage. I have no idea how Lexus will overcome this.
3. The emergence of the “Premium” car sector over there has set a level of standards that Lexus does not meet at this time. Lexus is an outstanding Luxury marquee, but not a “Premium” marquee. This will hurt them in the upper end anginst BMW, MB, Audi markets.

Lexus will pick up sales from buyers that share American standards, but will have a hard time converting the hard core. I don’t think the hard core is where they are shooting for though. Like in any battle you go for the soft underbelly, and then hit the stronger points after you weaken the enemy.

***Is that just your way of saying that the ML diesel is slow? Yea thats what I figured, these are not performance SUV's, but 9.2 to 60? Thats just pathetic.***

You're pathetic. What's so bad about a 2-ton+ SUV taking 9.2 seconds to reach 60 mph? NOTHING. The ML320 CDI in fact can reach 60 mph in 8.8 seconds, as tested by Autobild last I recall. A perfectly adequate 0-60 time if you ask me.

Unfucking believeable how brainwashed we are into thinking every fucking car has to be quick from 0-60. Fucking pathetic. These are SUV's. I couldn't care less if it took 15 seconds to reach 60. If I want a fast car, I'll buy a fucking fast car. Jesus Christ, the arguments here are pathetic.

"I'll take the RX because it is so much faster..." <-- It's an SUV, who cares about speed? I don't. When shopping for an SUV, I care about offroad capability, towing capacity, fuel economy and interior space. The last thing on my mind is how fucking fast the thing is.

About the hybrid RX, the Lexus fans should be objective for once. The RX400h is only efficient within the city. Outside, where the gas motor does most of the work, it is a GAS GUZZLER plain and simple. Now, if you live in the city and never venture offroad and need an SUV for whatever reason, then get an RX400h. I for one would take the ML320 CDI because to me it is more appealing from an overall point of view. Oh, and I can take it offroad too, not like the RX. Don't take this wrong way Lexus fans, but I think even you will have to admit that the ML is a REAL SUV compared to the RX (hint hint: made for the roads...).

***Your still missing the big picture, maybe because it's due to your lack of intelligence. If the ML CDI also had 3.3 liters or anywhere close to as large of an engine as the RX400h, that 2 mpg differece would be that much smaller. The RX400h may even get better mpg at that point. Whats even worse is that this is the new CDI engine for the M Class, before it only had 2.7 liters. One could only imagine how slow that POS was. 11 seconds to 60 perhaps? At that point you'd have a hard time passing a Prius.***

A 0-60 time for an SUV of 11 seconds is perfectly acceptable in my book. And what the fuck are you complaining about? It wasn't sold here so who cares? For Europe, I suppose it is perfectly acceptable.

Carwimmer on C&D drove the ML270 diesel you are talking about. Here is his review:

Link: http://www.caranddriver.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=66385&forumID=6&catID=1&search=1&searchstring=