Have The German Cars Lost Their Souls And Just Become German Lexuses?

Actually China is the world's largest market for the second year in a row....

A big part of Lexus becoming successful was price and perceived quality. Market a car for $30 LESS and promise a better car than the competition and you will get sales.

Moths are drawn to that flame first...poof!!!

Semper, you might not want to hear it, but the rest of the world agrees with 009. Lexus has the American moths. They haven't figured out how to market to the rest of the world yet.

God you are clueless, I hope Lexus outsells the Germans in the Us because that means the Germans haven't lowered their prices to compete with Lexus

Don't forget Lexus was created for the American market so automatically it's expected to cater to the likings of Buick and Cadillac, the soft ride cruising mobiles.

I honestly am not bias after having the pleasure to test drive so many cars out there. Quite frankly I'm at a road block where I don't know and I can't really tell the difference anymore. At least at the highest level (S-class, 7 series, etc).

The level of engineering these days is beyond anyone from the pasts imagination. AMEN to terrfic products otherwise sites like AutoSpies.com wouldn't have survived this long after the DOT COM boom. We have things to argue about.


By the way, YES China is the biggest market :). US always wants to take credit for everything big, bold, and beautiful in this world. Their time is over. It's people who are from there or is working over there who are making the serious cash, so why not spend more over there?.

North America as a whole is dead.

WHAT???
This is hardly a trend and at best you may have a minute number of examples to backup your assertion. If anything, the germans have proven to master a suspension setup that can adjust to circumstances by providing driving modes as well as advances in suspension control (air controlled supensions).

This comment has no scientific base to lean on. Lexuses are eternally ultra-soft and boring to drive. Nothing has changed. I've driven all 4 sport sedans (A4, 3, C-class and the Lexus) at a driving circuit as well as selected other models (sedans and SUVs) on test drives. NOTHING suggests to me that Lexus is more sporting or Germans are softer!

As far as the American market. There are two groups: A-to-B drivers (Toyota-Lexus drivers) and enthusiast drivers (german cars, corvettes, mustangs, etc). The germans have been producing great cars which remain true to performance while also providing some level of riding comfort at cruising speeds, something the Americans or japanese have not managed to do.

Agent63: Sounds so Bernanke to me..... it's probably easier to ask our s american neighbor whose income per capita is twice of Chinese. :)

Agent63 said:
By the way, YES China is the biggest market :). US always wants to take credit for everything big, bold, and beautiful in this world. Their time is over. It's people who are from there or is working over there who are making the serious cash, so why not spend more over there?.

North America as a whole is dead.

----

How soon we forget! Remember the 80's when everybody thought Japan was getting ready to take over the world? Where is Japan now? America is not perfect, but if nothing else we are resilient.

Lexsucks, Meanvulcan, and others here that try to make the argument Americans are dumb because they have chosen Lexus as number one in the USA, or that Lexus doesn't sell well in Europe as it does in America. DUHHH~ Get a clue guys, if you are going to make arguments like that then you might want to know the history before yapping off. How long has Lexus been in Europe? Less than two years! Get over yourselves, that’s such a weak argument.

Yes, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and all the rest are trying to be like Lexus where Lexus is now trying to be like them. They are learning from each other. This is a good thing for both sides. The Euros have built a bad reputation for themselves for reliability where the Asian market has lacked styling and soul. For those who say the Japanese copy everybody else, well yes that argument can be made but look at that picture now; if the styling queues of today aren’t obviously moving towards Asian, or what I like to call “sanded down jelly fish,” then what the hell would you call it? The Euro brands are getting their reliability issues worked out and the Asian brands are starting to figure out their styling and getting a little soul.

"Less than two years! Get over yourselves, that’s such a weak argument. "


- Get your facts straight. They've been in europe since the 90's. Amazing how you Lexus fans make up your own facts. You're argument is weak because it isn't based on any facts.

There was time when I was madly in love with BMW. That was in the late 1990s, when I got (and hung onto) 3 in as many years. I liked the styling. It looked distinctly "German" outside and in. The cockpit was functional first, and nice-looking second. BMW was known for having "the best" dashboards. Mercedes' exterior also looked distinct.

Today's BMWs and MBs have exterior styling that can be at best called "derivative." They have adopted the swoopy headlights that Asian cars have had for over a decade. Wrap-around tail-lights, once the stuff of Toyotas, now appears on BMW's 6 series. Body shapes and surfaces are uninspiring (thank god that Flame Surface is finally gone!) Audi hasn't quite blended into the crowd, but the Gaping Hole grill is a love/hate sort of thing. At least their dash has not gone the way of Italian furniture design.

With respect to handling, yeah, the awesome and perfect balance of luxury and sport, as seen in the 1990's BMW 5, has given way to softer suspension, gimmicky electronic steering, and a host of other gadgets that cater to those who buy based on the number of bullets in marketing material, while leaving "purists" cold.

That said, for each thing I don't like, there are a thousand guys lined up who do. There is no shortage of customers. That sounds like success to me, even though I don't care for the products.

Note that not all German makes follow this trend. For example, Porsche looks as individual as ever, and has not yielded one bit to Asian styling trends, or those who followed them. Perhaps that's why the Panamera has been given such kudos: It still remains distinctly German, and caries that Teutonic spirit.

Maybe because Porsche only has to sell 20k cars a year, instead of 20k a month. It's easy to make focused products when you only have to appeal to a focused audience.

No! The Germans have gotten softer and bigger interiors like the Japanese, nice pic of an Infiniti M-Series to define Japanese mid-size luxury sedan.

The Japanese have borrowed from Audi for the interiors and put there own style on it, as well as tightening up the handling & performance of their sedans.

— MorePower "The Japanese have borrowed from Audi for the interiors and put there own style on it, as well as tightening up the handling & performance of their sedans."

that is, COPIED from Audi and put their own cheap plastic replacements and not managed to look high-end at all.

I owned an FX, which drove great for an SUV, but the interior wannabe materials were simply too cheap looking for my taste. Consumers have an advantage nowadays to demand everything from an automaker, why settle for less?

I agree with Steve. Anyone remember the BMW's early successes in USA? If you had a BMW, you knew a great car. Now if you have a BMW, you have money and perhaps a touch of douche-ness.

As 009 correctly pointed out- the Germ's are catering to the hugely successful Chinese market which is not as interested in "sport" as much as they are luxury.

That being said, it will force those who want a sportier German car to buy either an AMG, a BMW "M" or Audi S/RS.

Pretty smart if you ask me........

I agree with the original OP. However I really believe that they have softened up the core cars but if you want sporty go with the ///M, R, AMG..very good marketing!

How do the German emulate Lexus when Lexus is legendary for coping the Germans? ah the beautiful logic of Lexus fanboys

black: bmw and audi are the market leaders. the united states is NOT the world. bmw sold 211,000 5-series ALONE last year. that's almost as much as lexus sold across their ENTIRE model range. you're such a simpleton.

non and black: it's just too funny that you two have all these opinions on cars you've never driven, don't own and can't afford to own. jealousy is not an attractive quality children.

oh black. there you go again, you simpleton. how's your corolla running these days?

Lexus was the first company to come out with the 8 speed transmission and everyone make fun of them and now everyone is copying them even your belove German brand. We are copy each other. And Toyota/Lexus/Honda where the first to mass produce hybrid cars and now everyone copying them as well.

Everyone use to make fun of Japanese cars for being to soft and have no soul and now they're more responsive and handle better than the German competitions and you guys/gals still make excuses. Give credit where credit is due.

I know it must be really hard to see your belong German brands get beaten by an Asian brand or a car made by a man with yellow skin. And don't worry I think everyone grandsons and grand daughters will all be learning Chinese soon if they want to be competitive when applying for a job.

Like it or not the Chinese is going to be a World Super Power soon and the auto market is going to have to cater to them as well.

Sorry dude, after someone comes up with a 6-speed, then a 7-speed, it is hardly an invention or even noteworthy to come up with an 8-speed. To me that is a "me too" attitude which I stay away from. Lexus has no originality. Period.

Here in California, you see more people in the service area then at the sales area at BMW. I know it's a cut off to my office.. Bimmers lined up the side of the street for service... I proudly drive my IS350 knowing I only need scheduled maintainable. And please don't get me started on the generic styling of Audi meh! And those kitchen microwave dashboards. Nope not luxury Audi, why is it the new Volkswagen are better looking. Those saggy led lights...

When you try to please everyone you please no one ! They are chasing volume at all cost and diluting their heritage and their brands. When 60% of BMW 1 owners don't know if the car is front or rear wheel drive
the corporate types' be all end all strategy is reinforced. Enthusiasts
have to be very selective or look elsewhere and premium buyers are moving up market to Bentley's , Lambo (a sedan is coming), etc.

Lexus fans are so entertaining.

You guys are so predictable. And funny.

This is what a posted about Lexus fans in another thread (before you posted):

"you'll probably end up call me names, say that I'm a child, or that I live in my mother's basement. LOL!! Anything other than admit to the fact that Toyota is building crap cars right now."

Hook, line, and sinker. LMAO.

They can knock me all they want. It's just that some folks here are just oversensitive Wussies. It’s only a car for Christ sakes. Why get all upset and go into attack mode just because someone said something negative (or poked fun at) about Toyota/Lexus?

Some folks here are just insecure plain and simple. They don’t own stock in Toyota. But for some reason they defend the cars as if it were their children. And we all know how some parents are when it comes to their children. No matter how awful a child is, some parents will never acknowledge it and attack anyone who does speak the truth about that child. Toyota/Lexus fans are acting the same way here.

I’m really enjoying all of this. Watching and reading people defend a brand as lame as Toyota is entertainment at its best.

I'm throwing the tantrum? Who insulted someone personally because they said something negative about a car? You did.

It’s funny how you try to switch the subject away from cars. Instead you attack and insult me personally. Why does someone saying something negative about Toyota make you react in that manner?

Some of you people are starting to scare me. What next? Beat someone up because they said something negative about Toyota?

Toyota's are lame. I can live in my mother's basement, be a 12 year old girl etc... That still doesn't take away the fact that Toyota is currently building crappy, boring, lifeless, appliances that gets recalled all the time. Toyota is always in court because of those crappy cars.

I'm sorry but Toyota is the last brand for anyone sensible to want to associate themselves with. Unless of course you are a Blind Fanboy. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Parez Hilton is waiting? I saw him. He was driving a Lexus.

Luxury? Yawn!!!!!!!

Lexus does compete with Buick. Its only in America where Lexus competes with BMW and MB. And that's because Americans are stupid and gullible. Buick is the only brand that Lexus can really match up against.

Only Americans believe that Lexus matches up against MB and BMW. The rest of the world isn't that stupid.

Stupid, Gullible, American Lexus buyers. Got it?

They bought more BMW's and MBs than Infintis and Acuras (funny how you left out Lexus). But they bought more Lexuses than all the other makes. Why don’t Europeans share the same Lexus enthusiasm as Americans do?
Why don't the Europeans buy Lexuses? It’s not like Lexus didn't try.

Lexus fans always talk about sales, while at the same time Lexus can't survive outside of the U.S. BMW and MB seem to be doing alright outside of america. Why not Lexus?

Lexus didn't recently enter those markets. They've been there since the 90's. Now you seem to be making up your own facts. Which is the problem with you Lexus Lovers. You make up your own facts (most of the time before the car is even released).

Here's a quote from wiki:

"In the European market, Lexus has long struggled with smaller brand recognition; perceived lack of prestige compared to domestic premium brands; minor market share; and the absence of an independent dealership network during the 1990s. After import quotas were relaxed in 1998, the marque remained a small player on the continent. In 2005, Lexus announced plans to introduce its first hybrid and diesel vehicles and expand the number of dedicated dealerships in Europe:"


And you are claiming that "they only recently entered those markets"? Which is 100000% wrong. The whole entire premise of your reply is seriously flawed and inaccurate.

Next!

Deboosting? Guess that's all you guys can do since my FACTS are correct. This is too easy.

nonofyobus,

Let the personal attack on Lexsucks begin!!!!! How dare he say something negative about Lexus!!!!

Is this where you are at nonofyobus?

I should have to pay Autospies for this level of entertainment. This is great.

You gotta love these wacky agents; if nothing else, they know how to stoke the fires and create a good flame war.

And isn't it always a rehash of the same ole same? The lexus sac-lickers only have two arguments--sales and reliability (both of which are BS, if you examine closely). The anti-lexus crowd pretty much copies and pastes how they're boring and look like camry's (which is certainly true).

So, really, nothing new here, though I will add an opinion; calling any of the germans a german lexus is pretty much the ultimate insult to them, but a good slap in the face to lexus, since it just reinforces the worldwide notion that they're soulless.

more crap posts from 00R and more lemmings to play mindless follow the leader. For one there is a HUGE difference between harsh and overly soft, clearly saying a car is soft compared to a car that is deemed harsh and unrefined is not a put down. These cars performance or not are luxury cars they should not ride harshly, and a car having a rough ride and unrefined overall doesnt make it any more luxurious. Its like a lexus because it rides nice, what have other luxury brands been making trucks with raised suspensions.....seriously..

I was sure this article was gonna start by saying Hyundai makes the best german car in the world

The reason people by a Lexus is because it's reliable

The reason they don't buy german cars is because they are unreliable

Build a reliable BMW, people will buy it

Hoorayforpeepee,

Only Americans buy Lexus. Since the Germans(and Europeans) dont buy Lexuses, I guess that means that the Germans must all be driving unreliable cars?

And when was the last time you saw a BMW broken down on the side of the road? Lexus has the American mind Brain-Washed beyond belief.

Lexus PRETENDED to offer reliable cars. They have been proven as liars over and over and over. You have to be pretty uninformed to fall for "Perceived Reliability".

Statistical studies over the past few years show the germans among the top five in reliability in many categories, most luxury ones, and Lexus has shown a CLEAR drop to has-beens.

I'd rather buy from a company that does not lie to me to get a sale. In my dictionary synonyms for Toyota and Lexus are liar, pretender, misleader.

comparing global Lexus sales or US luxury car sales is not the focus of the german brands, although they are trying to beat each other (germans) in the US market. To go purely after sales has clearly not been the direction. This is evident from the lack of incentives and economy marketing applied by Lexus. If sales were so important then why not target the Ford F150 or Ford Focus or Honda Civic? simply because these are different demographics. There is an ideal number of sales for a luxury brand beyond which it becomes more of a mass production product(as GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Lexus, Fiat are) than an object of desire. Let Lexus win the mass production trophy.

Can't lose something you never had.

Cigar, remember, this is Turbospyder/sportytubro which is really synonymous for "selective copying and pasting".

Lexus fans are amazing. If you say something bad about the car that they love, then get ready to be called names and insults by them. What a bunch of teenagers. This is so entertaining. I’d like to see the Lexus fans stick to the subject of cars, but they can’t because you can only talk about "reliability" for so long without putting people to sleep.

"You contribute the most off topic drivel out of every poster at Autospies"

- Show me one example.

sportbike80,

Stop misquoting me.

I didn't say this: "but I do have to say that there's a demographic here in the USA of people that seem to revel in being ignorant.”

The user "holmstar" said that. All I did was quote him and then reply. When someone quotes another person, that person doesn't take over the quote. It still belongs to the person who said it first. That’s how hundreds of people can quote one person. Nice try.

And how is talking about Toyota buyers off topic? You guys always talk about Toyota sales. Toyota Buyers are a part of Toyota sales, which makes it "on topic".

Please tell me that that isn't the best that you could do.

sportsbike80,

Is that how you react after you've been PWNED? LOL!!

I guess you'll look twice before you attempt to qoute someone again. This is too Funny. Quess you couldn't find anything "Off Topic" written by me after all?

You weren't just PWNED. You're argrument was exposed as being BS. Live with it.

Do you know what the worst thing about owning a lexus is? Knowing that you are being associated with these blind fanboys lol!

In Europe Lexus is not perceievd as "premium".