Will Lexus Finally Bring A BMW 3-Series Beater On The Next IS Or Continue To Play It Safe?

1. What did Lexus do WRONG/RIGHT on THIS generation IS-Series?

The current IS was still too small. The backseat was laughable. And they didn't allow the IS350 to come with a 6MT which would have given it some more cred with the performance buyer. Plus the IS250 was underpowered. If memory serves though, they were the first with 300hp in this segment so that was done right.

2. Do YOU believe they CAN and WILL finally bring the car that BEATS the 3-Series next time around?

NO. No manufacturer has yet to do this. They keep getting close (G35/37), BUT this usually occurs when the 3-Series is getting long in the tooth. The competition gets better, but then BMW releases the next gen 3-Series and they are again several steps ahead.

3. What do they HAVE to do to the car to finally WIN?

I don't know if this RWD/AWD sport sedan segment will ever be a winner for Lexus. In my opinion, most Lexus buyers want a nice, luxurious car. They care little about driving dynamics. The ES350 would fit their bill better. Buyers wanting more excitement can go to BMW or Infiniti.

4. If the next gen car IS what we see pictured here, is it a STUD or a DUD?

Dud from these images. It looks bloated and very Japanese.

I do agree the current IS 250 was definitely underpowered, especially since (at least here in my climate) you could only get an IS250 AWD. The 350 did definitely need a stick too. The car was also on the small side.
The new one should be larger with 240hp and 300+ hp and a new suspension based on the new suspension from the 2012 ISF.
I also kinda like the new design of the spy photo.
As much as I think the 3 series is the benchmark I also think that manufacturers should do their own thing rather than be just chasing the competition.
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Luxury? Luxury is for Wussies and Geezers.

The current Lexus IS is already a BMW 3-series beater. Always have been.

Correction: Since the Lexus IS has been available, It has been beating the 3-series.

He's trolling. Ignore him.

Suppose to take the gloves off with the new GS lets hope they do the same with the IS and ES as well.........

I have driven the current IS a few times, and it is overall a pretty solid package.

Pros:

-Very good AWD system that allows it to handle like a RWD car.
-Nice interior
-smooth and efficient engines.
-Doesn’t look half bad either.
-quiet cabin

Cons/areas for improvement:

-Stronger breaks standard; they work well but don’t inspire confidence.
-Ride compliance...it’s a little harsh over bumps.
-maybe a little more power in the base engine.
-Seats were not to comfortable after long periods in the car.(more lumbar support).

While IMO the 3 series has more steering feel, and a slightly more refined engine and chassis. Which I think it would be difficult for any manufacture copy the overall feel of a 3 series b/c it’s so characteristically BMW.

But if Lexus made the above changes to the next version I believe they would have very strong sports sedan that would not necessarally be inferior to the 3 series at all. It would be a Japanese interpretation, and a good one at that.

first there is no awd for the 350 just the 250 which is way underpowered . 2nd there is no coupe. 3rd 300 hp from the engine is different from 300 hp from the wheels(for those that dont know american and japanese take the horsepower from the engine block the germans take it from the wheels which gives an actual useable hp and we know bmw understates their hp numbers) 4 you cant have luxury and performance one takes away from the other so pick one and do it right

AMG luxury offerings weigh down their vehicles to the point that dynamically they don't compete with BMW's offerings.

Markanthony, don't say that! If that's true, then a 495hp GTR or 505hp Z06 would be competing against the 408hp GTS, They will annihilate the GTS on the track. It's much better in Porsches favour if the GTR is competing against a similarly powered Turbo. Saying that German cars are measured from the wheels and everyone else is measured from the engine is shooting yourself in the foot by not allowing you to compare higher powered German cars to lower powered competitors.

almost forgot the straight 6 in the 3 is basically a perfect engine that a v6 cant match.

Not really. Inline 6's are long engines that will be too long if the displacment is increased. So that means that you have to turbo charge them if you want more than 333hp out of it.

BMW has reached its ropes end with N/A inline 6's. You will never see a N/A inline six with more than 335hp (which is plenty). The E46 M3's engine is the most powerful N/A inline 6 engine that you will ever see. And that engine is easily outpowered by a 2.0 liter Turbo 4. Inline 6's are yesterdays news. Even BMW is getting away from them.

This rendering is definitely a STUD, so I hope it will be like this or even better and not ruin it like they did with the LFA.
But here're my thoughts for the next model.

1. Make the new IS have more power in its segment.
2. Add some room in the cramped back seats for God sake!! Make it also as roomy as its competitors.
3. Improve handling to surpass competitors.

Simply, learn from the GT-R team how they're killing everyone!! and they made the GT-R to be the benchmark.. Let the new IS be the benchmark!!

I actually like the pic of the 2-door.

I'm being serious. Why the de-boost? :(

Lexus may want to set their sights a bit lower. The current BMW 1-series 128 and 135 runs circles around their respective IS250 and IS350 counterparts.
And try to match the 1M? Fuggedaboutit...

Everyone knows that Lexus build better cars than BMW.

nope, just cheaper

depends on what you want from a car.

Disclaimer - I drive a 335i. I think the advantage of the turbocharged Bimmer is the tuning potential. Practically everyone I know with a 335i has at least a mild computer tune boosting the output into the mid to high 300s and many have more than that.

With just a basic tune I ran a 12.7 sec 110mph quarter last fall (my first run at any strip ever). There are 335s running in the low 11s now with just bolt ons.

Enthusiasts who mod are going to go with the car with the FI engine.

LexSucks-I usually chuckle at your sarcasm. But "Lexus" doesn't build cars.

cigar guy- amg is not a luxury offering by mb, Its clearly a performance offering. i and i would say everybody on here would agree that the amg line has nothing to do with luxury. case in point my friend has an e63 and he had to sell it because his wife hated the ride it was too rough and if you even touched the gas too much the traction control would engage. now i am in no way saying the e63 is a bad car it just doesnt have a luxurious ride. Now my friend has the s550 which his wife loves . so i humbly argue my point with you cigar guy

i stand corrected its about 17% loss of hp from the crank (flywheel) to the rear wheels.

manual transmission

I actually think the current Lexus IS350 is really good looking and to me it like an Audi A4/S4 but in Japanese style.

1. I drove Bimmers for 14 straight years (540i, M3, M5) but when it came time to replace the daily driver I decided to try something completely different, so I bought an IS-F. Can’t speak for the rest of the IS lineup, but I don’t think the IS-F was meant to be as extreme as an M3 or C63 AMG. It’s a softer (but more reliable) gentler interpretation of a compact super sedan and IMO while the M3 or M5 are by nature performance cars --- that just happen to look like sedans, the IS-F is a sedan --- that can sometimes act as a performance car. I think to have really gotten proper street cred the IS-F should’ve been engineered as a performance world beater from the start, much like the GT-R was.

2. I don’t think Lexus has it in them to engineer an extreme performance sedan that they will sell to the masses. It’s not that they can’t, it’s just that they won’t.

3. They will have to engineer a performance car (hybrid if possible) that will smoke the M3 in the road and track and sell it for $10K less.

4. Looks are subjective, but IMO, the IS-F is better looking than the M3 or C63, so that’s not the problem. Those pics are a good start.

Like the above renderings. New IS should be little more roomier but overall size should not be stretched too much. Also more engine options should be offered this time like the German rivals do. Variants like IS-F and Coupe/Cabrio will be better balanced and more sportier as they will be thought out from the beginning.

I think Lexus should leave performance cars to the other players, BMW, Infiniti, MB. They should stick with what they know and do best, luxury.

It don't have to be a 3 series better it can do just fine as a 3 series alternative.

ill give lexus credit for even trying... in all honesty i didnt like my 335xi ( after having an e46 m3) and got rid of it after 18 months... i ended up getting a Lexus IS-F and liked many things about it, but still preferred the 335xi even though it was slower.. ( got rid of the lexus is-f after 1 year )

if you ever drive a bmw,and no i dont mean just a test drive, i mean for a long period, it really is hard to get into something else.. now i have another m3 and couldn't be happier... ( just wish i could afford a damn 911 )

I can't wait for new Infiniti G