Japan: Limited edition Black and Yellow Fiat 500 unveiled

Seriously buddy, work on your reading comprehension. I'm pretty sure all of your arguments on this website start with your misunderstanding (purposely?) of someone elses point.

It's a free body diagram, and all engineers use them thank you.

You're right, I do think that they use it. However I also think that they already have it in their heads and don't require such a simplification to understand that when down force is applied outside of the wheel base the opposite wheel shall lose traction. With that basic understanding further analysis and/or testing will still show evidence that the effect described still happens.

LOL at sportsbike80 and autospies1 for thinking that Engineers doing aerodynamic design don't use basic mechanical fundamentals in their work.

I usually don't agree with Joe as it is against my religion...but an overloaded pickup truck will lose traction in the front. I've put a few too many concrete blocks in the back of a 1 ton and the front steering was non existent above 50mph. THe weight behind the rear wheels levered the front wheels....the same thing will happen in any vehicle (but not to the same preportion.)

BSBB, applying 600lbs of force to your hitch will decrease the front traction. Lets do some math. Let's assume a few things first. First you're driving a truck, second the wheel to wheel distance is about 130", and third that the distance from the rear wheels to your hitch is about 40".

If you're apply 600lbs of force 40inches away you get 24000in-lb of torque on the vehicle, this is the equivalent to losing 184lbs of front end weight/traction. Now lets say this 6000lb truck has a 55/45 weight distribution, that's about 3300lbs over the front wheels to begin with, by loading up 600lbs on the hitch you lose almost 6% of your total front traction. Now this may not seem like much, but add in the fact that you're gaining 600*(130+40)/130=784 pounds of weight to the rear axel, or a about 29% extra traction in the rear, your already under steering truck will under steer even more. Add even more weight, and it can get very dangerous to drive. The same math also applies to fwd vehicles and their spoilers.

Oh I'm clearly delusional. Yet you seem to think that applying forces to a rigid body is "aerodynamics" lmao. Maybe statics or dynamics if you incorporate the varying loads with respect to vehicle veloicty, but never aerodynamics. If you want to talk about aerodynamic design, then we would discuss the drag vs downforce of various wing attack angles, or the angle that separation occurs on the back side of the wing at various speeds.

But no, you chose to argue about something that is so basic, so trivial, that even a kid in a junior high science class could figure out what you have such a hard time understanding. Your faith that auto manufacturers put spoilers on fwd cars to make them perform better is astounding. I've given you other reasons why they do it, increased safety yes (understeer is safer then oversteer or neutral steering), fuel economy (in case of the mini wing), but primarily they add them for aesthetic reasons.

Go ahead and slap a formula one spoiler onto your moms Corrola, I'm sure she'll adore the added understeer on the highway and all the looks of people passing by.

I'm not flip flopping, you simply lack comprehension skills.

That argument was for performance. And in my last comment I said.

"Your faith that auto manufacturers put spoilers on fwd cars to make them perform better is astounding."

I'm still arguing that rear spoilers on mass produced fwd cars do not help with performance as I was in my original argument.

And you still don't understand the difference between statics/dynamics of a rigid body and aerodynamics, as you misused the term yet again.

Go back to grade three and work on your reading comprehension sportsbike80.

sportsbike80, do you think the spoiler on the audi tt, mini coupe, or your moms corolla makes it go faster around a track?

Answer me please, do you think the spoiler on the CR-Z will help it go any faster around the track?

That's a rather stalkerish question to ask, no? You already know my face.

did you go to school?

lmao! That's a autocross video, do you honestly think the car will go fast enough that the wing will play an effect?