Lexus Claims The All New GS Is Going To Be A Game Changer - But For Whom?

- But For "Whom"?

That front looks way too much like their entry level models. Ugh... style wise it's a dud (not to mention the Sonata rear end)

We were also told the IS-F and the LF-A would be game changers as well. That hasn't worked out that way either.

Some magazines are saying F-sport will be a package and not a new variant, same as BMW M sport package, Audi's S-line package..etc. It would be available for all variants GS250, 350 and 450h.

And the design of new GS is looking better with each passing day especially the nose, fog lamps area and side profile. Can't wait to see it in person soon.

Interior of BMW 550 with M Sport package, looks and will age better. Reminds me of Lexus SC400. The new GS front air dam is going to get alot of scratches underneath.

SC400 looked "good", but aged badly.

no game changer here. derivative styling and the same engine they launched in the 2006 IS350. unless the GS has a chassis and handling that far surpass BMW, there's no chance this car will be a serious player in the segment.

"Lexus Claims The All New GS Is Going To Be A Game Changer - But For Whom?"

A. People that enjoy luxury sport sedans without high, overinflated maintenance costs.

B. Individuals that appreciate unique styling from a marque that takes daring chances without the same boring, predicable appearance every new model cycle.

C. Aficionados who want a dependable, reliable automobile which is not at the dealers shop every few months (unlike most German brands).

D. Savvy buyers who appreciate state of the art technology, quality and attention to detail and refuse to pay over-inflated prices for cars with hardly any decent standard features.

Wow Autospies/Agent 009, Your bias against Lexus is quite transparent! Are you really automobile enthusiasts that review cars based on their positive virtues or just brand snobs?

based on everything you just said, his bias against Lexus is no more evident than your bias against German cars.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the IS-F have a more rigorous maintenance schedule then any of its competitors?

lol. this is funny. lexus 'daring'? their buyers 'savvy' and 'afficionados'? who, exactly, do you think their buyers are demographically?

@JRobUSC

Incorrect! I gave actual, verifiable FACTS which relate to most German automobiles currently. Only the most ardent zealot would deny and attempt to defend many of the German brands numerous quality control issues and continuous reliability problems. Whether you choose to acknowledge or admit this TRUTH (or not) is your own prerogative.

@ - Joe_Limon
My previous post was not about scheduled maintenance via the manufactures guidelines, but high maintenance costs associated with the Germans crappy build quality, and sub-par electronics that malfunction continuously.

@monopoly

Didn't you recently say you weren't biased? If you weren't biased you'd be able to look at any of the long term reliability studies and see that all automakers exhibit roughly the same quality. Yet you are spouting an unsupported argument based upon your own personal biases (opinions).

furthermore, you are stating that your opinions aren't just opinions, but they are solid facts! haha it's honestly really hard to take anything you say seriously.

@ - Joe_Limon
Instead of whining, why don't you provide us with some pertinent information instead of your useless hyperbole? Let's see some of these so-called studies you claim to have that show the Germans auto manufactures, specifically BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi are on par with Japanese in regards to reliability and quality? LOL, many American cars have less defects or problems today than the heralded German automobiles sold today.

I personally challenge you to come up with anything significant from a REPUTABLE, ESTABLISHED RESEARCH FIRM to back up your claims. I stand behind my posts with factual information, can you? I'll be
waiting.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Monopoly, I'm going to ignore the "individuals that appreciate unique styling from a marque that takes daring chances without the same boring, predicable appearance every new model cycle" even though it's total opinion (and incorrect opinion, at that), and focus on one thing and one thing only. The fact that you used the terms "afficianados" and "savvy" betrays your bias. If you were unbiased you'd just say "buyers" or "people", your elevation of their "keen and shrewd buying acumen" renders your opinion invalid. You like Lexus and/or don't like German cars. Good for you. That doesn't make you any more savvy than the next guy, and it certainly doesn't make you an afficianado of anything.

@ - JRobUSC

Huh? Your response makes absolutely no sense at all. The failed but comical efforts in critiquing my previous response clearly shows your grasping for straws in your attempts to hide behind the fact that you have nothing of substance to add to this debate.

"All of what you said is outright bullshit and is so outdated it doesn't even warrant a detailed response."

@ - Mercedes
Well why did you even reply then? Sigh, SMH!

Monopoly what grade are you in? I seriously ask this because JRobUSC's response was clear as day.

As to what sources do I base my even opinion on? Well, JD Power is one of them. The difference between first and last place is 1 problem per vehicle. And these problems are very rarely anything serious.

@ - Joe_Limon

Hmm........? Seems your trying to get around the challenge I posed to you earlier by giving a vague, half-ass answer which is by the way erroneous. Wheres the direct link(s) to the J.D. Powers article/study you are quoting from to prove your thesis?

And are you JRobUSC personal internet bodyguard? I'm sure he or she/he-she can defend their own arguments or thoughts (or lack thereof).

Time to quit stalling with all the lies and constant blathering buddy and get up to speed on your homework. Still waiting!

I'm supporting JRobUSC because he is correct.

Furthermore, who are you to ask for direct links? Your "verifiable facts" don't even mention sources let alone links. At least I provided a major.

Anyway, I've belittled you enough.

Here is a link to the overall number of problems a brand has had per car after its third year.

http://autodoll.info/uploadfiles/autodollinfo-1302103778/jd-power-s-2011-vehicle-dependability-study-names-lincoln-best-brand-toyota-wins-most-segments_1.jpg

And here is a description of how broad their definition of "problem" is.

"A few years ago Hummer and MINI protested because their vehicles received low IQS scores because of poor fuel economy and awful cupholders, respectively. These weren't things as the dealer could fix, as the were endemic to the vehicles' designs. But J.D. Power counted them as problems anyway."

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/jdpower.php

This means, if you buy a car from any major car company, in three years chances are you'll see one or two minor issues, maybe poor fuel economy, maybe a bad cup holder design, or maybe even some squeaks and rattles.

"B. Individuals that appreciate unique styling from a marque that takes daring chances without the same boring, predicable appearance every new model cycle."

LMAO

Lexus takes styling chances? That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Citroen takes styling chances inside and out. Lexus? Lexus + design don't go together.

@ - Joe_Limon

You "belittle" me? Illusions of grandeur? Cocaine is a hell of drug! How amusing you provide a link which happens to be completely illegible. Could you possibly be hiding the data to slant your incorrect hypothesis? It's clearly certain to me that you are. The quote you listed is directly from True Delta, a competitor complaining about J.D. Power and it's data collection methods. Thus providing supposition in a attempt to validate your point make it not only invalid but unfounded.

I have provided the actual link from JD Power you are referring to which is the 2011 U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study. It shows your hollowed German brands, specifically Audi and BMW rank well below the industry average for defects. The only German brands above average are Mercedes Benz and Porsche. Even if we review the top 3 models per segment, only Mercedes Benz (glad to see MB back on the right track) cars are listed. Another well known publication, Consumer Reports 2011 annual guide states "Mercedes Benz and BMW are near the bottom because of reliability problems". Many of the German marques have allowed build quality, which was once a important benchmark to fall by the wayside. They have figured out that most people, especially Americans will do almost anything to purchase products with cache attached. Unfortunately, poseurs and fervent cheerleaders such as yourself who deny, dodge and refuse to hold such brands accountable for their evident failures do little to improve or modify the product you so passionately defend.


http://www.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=

2011029http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/02/honda-subaru-tops-ford-biggest-gainer-in-consumer-reports-annual-report-card/1

What you talkin bout, Willis? LMAO!

Monopoly it appears you have missed my point and started arguing against points I never made, why? Perhaps because you lack comprehension skills, but most likely you realize you can't argue with my points directly. Let me restate my point that there is negligible difference between the reliability of the major automotive manufacturers. To this you still haven't responded.

The problem with the Consumer Reports survey you have provided me with is that the scale is arbitrary. The numbers don't mean anything. You could scale that random grouping of reliability and "test scores" or even add/subtract to those numbers. Whereas the JD Power survey you know, that the "best" companies have around 1 issues per vehicle, and that the "worst" ones have around 2 issues per vehicle. Further, the majority of these "issues" are actually non-issues as stated by my source dismissing JD Power.

I'll give you an example, lets say a university teacher is teaching a class and the class average was 98% Now the teacher has to scale the grades to a bell curve, students scoring a 90% will end up with a failing grade. Even though they failed, they still apparently know 90% of the material and would be an A grade in most every class.

I'll restate my point so you for sure don't try twisting it again... all major automotive manufacturers are about as reliable as each other.

@ — Joe_Limon

Well I be d@4n*d! So now Consumer Reports along with the other reliable, well known research firms and publications which many industry insiders and consumers utilize are inexact because you don't agree with the criteria used? WOW!

Amigo, give it up! You brought your knife to the gun battle and lost this debate along time ago. Truthfully, all your doing is making yourself look bad in the process (LMAO).

I hope it will even though I'm doubting it. I do want to go back to owning a Lexus, it has the best build quality and reliability, it's just missing the sportiness and I don't know why that's so hard to do with Lexus.

I'm starting to get tired of my Infiniti's lack of quality. Every time I sit in a Lexus I admire the craftsmanship, I don't when I'm in my G35S.

yawn... 6th article about this car already. What say you agents, can you make it an even 10? You still have to make an article asking about your favorite paint colour on the GS, whether the headlights are class leading or merely following the pack, what is your favorite part of the GS, whether the grill on the GS is starting a new trend in Grill shapes. Or even an article asking what Lexus should include with the GS's next refresh. lol

I think the new GS will do fine. I only sat in the previous one and it seemed cramped, especially the rear headroom. Better reliability, pricing, customer service and the F versions will take share from the european marks.

Like the last GS, there will be a lot of interest at first, but after a few months, it will lose a lot of the hype. The new 5-Series came out with a bang, BMW was aggressive with the leases and offered a lot of incentives to entice new and existing clients to them. Audi offered loyalty, and still does for that model, and Mercedes, for whatever reason, people just buy it. The Mercedes is an anomoly because it's not the fastest, cheapest, or the most equipped... but it did come out first.

Audi is coming in late to the game, and I don't know if has enough NEW to justify going over to that brand. The GS has always had a history of being one of the weaker Lexus vehicles for resale, and with the new ES coming out also promising to be a game changer, it sticks the GS in limbo once again... similar to the Jag XF, and Infiniti M.

I meant to say Lexus is coming in late

you're waaaay off on the 'aggressive with leases' and 'lot of incentives' for the new 5. the car sells like mad, they just RAISED prices and they go for top dollar. my 2011 535i lease is over $900/month.

asa, you have your assessment backwards, Mercedes is the only one in the segment offering crazy incentives. In fact, not only are the leases subvented significantly more than the 5-Series or A6, but if you drive anything even remotely passable as a luxury car you get a $4000 conquest cash bonus ON TOP of the other discounts and lease incentives. Got a 1993 Saab? Here's an extra $4000 discount. Try that at a BMW or Audi dealer. And Benz has that conquest initiative on every model they sell in varying amounts, starting at $2000 on a C-class and going up from there. They're on a mission to buy the #1 spot in luxury sales at all costs, their incentives are twice what any other luxury brand is running. And despite that they're still #2 in the U.S. behind BMW, and probably #3 globally this year behind BMW and Audi, even with all those single serving one and done customers they're buying. Short sighted.

Do you really think cars here sell based on which is faster? Only 20 year-old morons on Internet forums who think "fastest 0-60 time equals better car" think in those silly terms.

Oh, and each car here sells because they offer something that their brands stand for.

Audi = sporty handling with AWD advantages
BMW = sporty handling purist RWD ride
Mercedes = comfortable and safe with decent sporty pretensions

I can't wait till this car starts kicking ass. Hardly anyone on this site really knows anything about cars other than reading a few magazines, and after overpaying for their german hardware they have to put down Lexus.....

This car is a great sorprise for me and let me know again how powerful and exclusive german cars are. This lexus is as always a shake of the three german brands, hide front grille fron Audi, now play a conservative lateral like Audi and BMW,the dash configuration is a Mercedes E class, steering from BMW sport packages,and now they use L shape on the tail lights like BMW ...wow what else. They also start to using something like I drive system from BMW and Mercedes with a type of button ha ha ha they always use touch screen and critize a lot BMW but at the end everybody has to do and follow all that BMW and Mercedes create and make. That's all....

Sold Porsche,Audi and BMW starting in 1985. Were you born yet "BOY" German car's do have their own feel, but if you would get your head out of your brain washed german a** you would realize Lexus has some great virtues. Every german car I ever owned had lots of electrical problems. I agree body structure and drivetrains are some of the best, but it take more than that to make a complete automobile. I was brainwashed too and was selling BMW's when Lexus came out in 1990. BMW bought an LS400 an a Q45 after driving both cars with V8's and selling 735i's with the inline 6 that was way under powered and over priced I was impressed. My exact words were they have no soul and would never hold up as long as the german cars. I was wrong then and you are wrong now. They build an all around better car for less money with better long term quality. We will just have to see how the new GS drives to see how much soul it has.....

Apart from Nissan/Infinity the rest of the Japanese line up are copy cats.They never can come up with a fresh design.Have to borrow from many and call it Original.When other manufactures take risks,there will be problems at first (they get called Unreliable) .If you want to be the head of the pack you got to take chances.

I see nothing about the design or drivetrain that will be game changing, great baited question and loved reading all the posts below... I love my very reliable 09 335i and will likely stick with BMW for a while...

Why does it have to be a game changer? Its in the game for sure. As much as I'm a Lexus hater, the new GS looks really nice in those pics (inside and out). Nicest looking car in the class. What's happening to me? Nooooo!!!!

Guess it all boils down to preference but the E-Class doesn't look that sporty IMO.

Luxury is for wussies. I'm not into rolling living rooms. I actually like to drive. Who cares what some rich snob is driving?

I like the interior and yes, Lexus is getting better.

This MONOPOLY clown, what a failure. What a complete troll.

Lexus running costs and dealership prices are pretty similar to their European rivals. That's the REALITY.

All this bullshit about European cars having higher spare parts costs compared to Lexus is a MYTH. A myth created by the overrated Lexus reliability MYTH.

Go on any Lexus forum and you'll see that these cars have problems like any other car.

I find it hilarious how German cars are labeled as "unreliable" because they had a bad spell in the mid-1990s to early 2000s after literally a hundred years of building high quality and reliable cars.

I've owned my share of German, Japanese and American cars and I've never had any major issues with my German cars. In fact the two most problematic cars I've owned were two Toyota Corollas (1993/1996 models).

Attacks without facts only show that your agitated and not very knowledgeable about automobiles!

Where are your facts?

@ - LexSucks

Look above at my previous posts and then also review this link below:

www.rif.org

Facts? You want facts? If German cars are so horrible, then why do people keep buying them? Why can they sell such expensive cars all over the world year after year?

If a product is continually unreliable, people won't buy it.

There is a FACT for you. You and your moronic-Toyota-loving friends should get a room.

@ - Willis

Because many German automobiles are sold to naive, uneducated sheep who are status seekers that know little about proper automobile engineering (such as yourself). Also these particular cars are either leased or purchased by wealthy individuals who could care less about resale value or repair costs.

Great handling dynamics, innovative technology and state of the art features are all wonderful, but it doesn't mean squat if your precious German automobile rarely works and half of your free time is spent at the dealer! LMAO!

Game changer or not, well-heeled folk will buy it in droves. Anyway, i think it has shifted the goal posts in offering a sporty alternative to the German options.

I'm sorry to say, but monopoly is leading the debate on points. Joe-Lemon, you pretentding to be intelligent is not working. Simple debating skills learnt in school are clearly lacking in your arguments.
Anyway, nice car Lexus, and far more attractive than that abomination that is the E Class.