Lexus Still Unsure Where They Fit In? Toyoda Says GS350 Was Almost Axed!

Well the ES seems more appealing from a price and interior space point of view. Magazines keeps slamming these cars because they perform poorly around a track but the truth is that the vast majority of people in this market will never, ever, drive these cars to their limit. That goes for the 5er and M (Infinit) to.

I've been saying it for a long time now that manufacturers should focus on comfort and offer a dedicated performance/sport package for those who want to die at a young age. They're willing to pay for it as well.

The ES is fine (for what it is). But there is no S6, or M5 competitor at all if the GS goes away. That leaves the IS-F and LF-A in charge of performance and they are already becoming dated.

Why do I see shades of the NSX all over again, this time with Lexus. Release a credible car and never bother keep it current. What a waste.

"I've been saying it for a long time now that manufacturers should focus on comfort and offer a dedicated performance/sport package for those who want to die at a young age. They're willing to pay for it as well."

- You got it all wrong Willis. Decent handling is exactly what you need to avoid an accident. If I were in a situation where I had to avoid an accident, I'd rather be in the car that has athletic moves vs. a car that is wallowy and sloppy at the limit. Soft suspension is good for a soft ride but not good for handling or accident avoidance maneuvers. It isn’t always about killing yourself. Some people feel safer in a car that is better equipped for the task at hand. Which is driving.

Granted Most folks can’t take advantage of those limits in an emergency situation anyway, but don’t attack the people who can, and decide to purchase a vehicle based on handling. I feel safer in a car that is designed for the roads first and comfort second, not the other way around. What about you?

I'd like to see the counterpoint to my point ^^above^^ instead of blind deboosting by retarded Lexus fans. Are you guys saying that accident avoidance isn't important? Or are the de-boosts because I’ve exposed a Lexus (the ES) as not being the car that you would want to be in if you had to avoid an accident? C’mon guys. The Silence speaks volumes about you guys lack of a valid point.

LexSucks, I'll counterpoint your view.
Almost every car on the road can avoid an accident just by turning the steering wheel. The only type of vehicles that gets wallowed are SUV's and trucks but, that's a given since they're such big vehicles. A car doesn't need to handle like a performance enhanced car. Today's vehicles are more likely to be equipped with radar cruised control and electronic equipments that are suppose to help you avoid an accident and doesn't need to handle like an F1 race car. This has nothing to do with a car that is capable of lapping the Nurburgring at 7 mins and 22 secs.

I understand what you're saying is that people prefer to drive cars that can handle well but, the reality is people don't really buy cars that handles well to avoid accidents. In fact, cars that handles well and very performance oriented are the ones that are likely to get into accidents. That's why insurance are always more for these types of cars.

@ LexSucks

Every car here handles decently enough for everyday situations or the occasional "soft fun" on back roads. Where they reach their limits is on the race track - where literally nobody drives these cars.

The dedicated track cars here are the M5, S6/RS6, E63 AMG and perhaps the GS-F if it is made. These cars have a sports-tuned suspension and can handle the stress of track driving. A standard 535i or E350 or E550 isn't tuned for extreme track driving.

Accidents can't really be avoided through "good handling". What causes most accidents? A distraction on the drivers part. In the US this means someone slurping a Diet Coke, texting or chatting on a phone while driving making the actual driving process their "second priority" instead of first.

"Almost every car on the road can avoid an accident just by turning the steering wheel."

- When you turn the wheel abruptly all cars do not react in the same manner. If a car has weak grip and low lateral g forces you might actually induce a spin. Cars that have high grip and high G forces would be harder to spin in those situations. If it's raining all bets are off. Both will spin.

Consider the high speed slalom. Some cars cant go through the cones past a certain speed. It's those cars that are the vehicles that will understeer into a wreck. The cars that can shift directions at a faster rate of speed stand a better choice of avoiding an obstacle. It's simple physics.


"In fact, cars that handles well and very performance oriented are the ones that are likely to get into accidents. That's why insurance are always more for these types of cars"

- I agree but that's not the fault of the car. Its the drivers fault. They get bit trying to act like a race car driver when they aren't. Read: boneheads.


"Accidents can't really be avoided through "good handling".

- I disagree. Not all accidents but some accidents are avoided by good handling. Take my slalom example above. Replace the cones with actual obstacles. Some cars (the better handling ones) will be able to make it through those obstacles without hitting them, while the cars that can't switch directions as fast will hit the obstacles. That right there is an accident avoided for one car and not the other. All due to the vehicles handling ability.

Back to deboosting I see. Some people refuse to get it. LOL!! I'm 100% correct on this one and you guys know it.

LexSucks,

"Consider the high speed slalom. Some cars cant go through the cones past a certain speed. It's those cars that are the vehicles that will understeer into a wreck. The cars that can shift directions at a faster rate of speed stand a better choice of avoiding an obstacle. It's simple physics."

I completely understand what your point is. The reality is no matter what kind of car it is, if you abruptly turn the steering wheel traveling in high speed, the chance of the car flipping over has been increased 10 folds. This happens to all exotic cars in the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini....etc. You can youtube the video yourself.

My point is, just like Willis said, accidents are just that....accidents. Most of the time it's somebody rear ending another person's car. The only time this happens is when a driver is not paying attention. You're right, physically, that a good handling car will indeed handle better but, a lot of factor goes into that. For example, like braking. If your car can handle really well but, your brake sucks, your likelyhood of getting into an accident is even greater, regardless of how well it turns. I get that you like to drive a car that handles "really" well but, that's subjective. Most people just wants a car to handle well and most cars can avoid accidents by paying attention and not following a car too close. I think I've proven my point. I've driven cars from Lamborghini to Ferrari, etc. and they're all accident prone if not driven properly, just like any car, they're all accident prone. At least everyone has gotten into 1 accident in their lifetime, including yourself. How did you car handle then????

"At least everyone has gotten into 1 accident in their lifetime, including yourself. How did you car handle then???? "

- Ask me about the accidents that I avoided.

pretty accurate summary of toyota's situation. they really do seem to be 'rudderles' and continue to sloooowly introduce uninspiring new models that make barely a splash in the marketplace.

A splash leaving only ripples. The market demands waves!

I can understand that wrt the current GS, but this looks to be a major step up. They should axe the ES.

Outgoing GS wasn't a bad car. The problem was that it wasn't defined properly within the Lexus lineup. The reasons for it's failure IMO are
1. Anyone interested in GS more often than not walks out with an IS or ES.
2. It was also not very sporty so wasn't appealing to BMW or Infiniti buyers. It wasn't bringing in buyers from other brands.

New GS appears to be a good all-rounder and fixed the shortcomings of the outgoing car. It looks better, more spacious, great interior and this time promised to be very sporty and dynamically competitive so i see new GS selling better than ever.

This monstrosity should of been axed and the people who designed it fired, Toyota has become a joke as of late. Look at the new camry it looks like a cheaper Kia.

blazinboy,

I think this is exactly the route they are taking in terms of going upscale in the Toyota lineup. And to complete a total revamp doesn't actually happen over night. If this is your assumption at thinking that Toyota needs to go away because their lineup sucks, then, that's poor judgement on your part. You don't know what they're thinking so stop assuming.

This car will sell in large numbers........

Not including the last year or so, the GS averaged over 3k sales monthly. That was "=" half its competitors sales.

The biggest threat to the GS, in my opinion, was the Infiniti M. The decrease in GS sales went hand in hand with the increase in M sales. At this point the remodeled M has not sold well compared to the last generation M, so we can anticipate the M will only threaten the GS in reviews, not sales.

In other words, I call bulls$%t on Toyoda claiming the GS was almost axed. If you can't maintain sales over a number of remakes, then you consider axing a model. The GS has not been faced with that problem yet. For the most part it's been a success for Lexus. The majority of consumers in this market don't drive their cars like Nascar competitors. If they did, Lexus would never have been a success in the first place.

exus Still Unsure Where They Fit In? It fits in at the bottom.

I am tired of throwing up every time I see one.