UAW Says Entry Level Workers Deserve To Earn Middle Class Wages - Should They Get It?

I think everyone should get pay at $350,000 and above so we don't have to pay much taxes like the middle class.

you forgot to add, sweep floors at GM for 10-20 years, earn upper middle class wages.

Ask how much a CEO should earn and you will not get a single reply here.

Working class people are brainwashed to only get angry at the folks who are in the same financial situation that they are in. CEO's earning 400% more than they did 10 years ago doesn't even matter to them (or even register in their warped brains). They are only concerned about their follow workers.


Its that old "divide and rule" thing again. The first step to divide the people is to make them think that others are getting a free ride. When the reality is that they all are being taken to the cleaners. But if they are fighting against each other all the time, they will never realize what is really going on. Some people here are fools.

1 CEO earning 400% more << 100's or 1000's of full time employees earning 200% more then they should.

The reason why CEO's aren't mentioned is because they took risks to get to where they are and they are fully entitled to take as much as they like. They know that if they take too much they can and will cause the company to fail. This is what the UAW lacks, they lack a general comprehension of money.

What makes you think that employees are making more than they should? Isn't it the employees that make it possible for the CEOs to earn that salary in the first place? One hand has to wash the other. I guess that you are also against profit sharing?

CEOs are fully entitled to take as much as they like, while at the same time telling everyone else to tighten their belts. Stop sticking up for CEOs; they don't care about you, just the money.

I've worked with Unions. Clearly you have not but feel compelled to defend their cause (who knows why). There are plenty of good union members that work hard and are dedicated and deserve good pay. Unfortunately, that is NOT the general rule. There is no incentive for contributing beyond your everyday duties because moving up is easy, all you have to do is put in the time (Seniority). Bottom line, show up for work and soon you'll get your promotion. Not to mention inflated pensions, protected by bailouts if they underperform. Very small contributions to medical plans...etc. Requirements for employment under a union? maybe a HS diploma, you don't even need to be a good student, and they would prefer if you know a trade.

Now I'm a believer that a any job is decent and its better than choosing to be unemployed, but I also believe in fairness and rewarding effort and most of all PERFORMANCE. I read someone's take on a comparison which is right on. FROM WHAT PLANET DO THESE UNION LEADERS THINK THEY ARE COMING TO SAY THAT THEY DESERVE HIGHER WAGES WITHOUT HAVING TO SHOW AT LEAST SOME LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE? ENTRY-LEVEL HIRES GETTING MID-LEVEL WAGES? Perhaps,all they are trying to do is set the bar really high to hope and land somewhere in the middle... WHICH IMO IS STILL PREPOSTEROUS!

To DESERVE you must EARN.

Feeling ENTITLED is NOT the same as EARNING.

I like how you pose your own question and answer it based on your own biased assumption.

I think you will find that many here agree that CEOs are overpaid and unfairly overpaid. Specially when you consider their "failure" packages,as I like to call them where they get a rich sum of cash if they were to be fired for underperforming.

However, this is not what this post is about so stop DEFLECTING from the fact that Unions need to radically step back or disapear alltogether.

"What makes you think that employees are making more than they should?"

The fact that I can get a job sweeping floors at a uaw plant and get paid more then an Engineering job just out of university.

"The fact that I can get a job sweeping floors at a uaw plant and get paid more then an Engineering job just out of university."

- That isn't a fact. You're just making that up. A janitor that's a UAW member doesn't make as much as an engineer. Please prove otherwise.

In a non unionized environment, an average starting wage for an Engineer is $50,000-$60,000 depending on their respective discipline, with benefits it's about $60,000-$80,000. Now the base wage according to the UAW is $28 an hour, which corresponds to $58,240 a year assuming 2080 hours a year this doesn't include the additional $33.58 an hour to cover the costs of health-care, pension, and other benefits.

I must agree Lexsucks, the majority of people here that I am sure are great people are brainwashed into this mentality, I have no problem with being rich, and for a sweeper at GM I don't think that they should get top dollar, For America's sake I hope that those jobs never get out sourced to China or Mexico completely, that would make us another South Africa where it is common to have flame throwers to ward off car jackers, the extreme rich have to realize this before it is too late, and all of you working poor middle class don't get too upset about this post,lol, this is also my class, although I have friends in all classes, being an artist I have no social barriers.

Joe,

Your post proves that they DONT get paid more that an engineer. You said that they get paid more.

Are you bad with math?

$128086.4 per year base UAW membership with benefits
vs
$60,000-$80,000 per year graduate salary with benefits

Even without the UAW granted benefits, on average the Graduate engineer will be making less then a floor sweeper at GM.

"The fact that I can get a job sweeping floors at a uaw plant and get paid more then an Engineering job just out of university."

@joe If you were sweeping floors at a GM plant you would:

1. Not be a GM employee
2. Making $8.00 an hour.

"The reason why CEO's aren't mentioned is because they took risks to get to where they are..."

What a croc! Reciting nothing more than homogenized, canned B.S. chaff filled, talking points.

You will never understand the wealthy because they understand how to pit you, the poor, blue collar and middle class worker at one another.

For every CEO who was born to a poor family and rose to his/her position through hardwork there are 10 that were rich before they worked a day. My favourite is Jeb Bush talking about how he's a self made man and that having a President as a father made it harder for him. Delusions. CEO who take risks....most were born with a silver spoon in their mouth.

Nobody gets this except a few non filthy rich people, rich people also feel entitled to be treated like royalty,$$$$ I have one friend like that, and I don"t hold it against him.they were just born with gold spoons, silver is for the middle class.

Are these dinasour UAW guys serious. They build a piece of sh@t for cars; get caught not once on cameras, but twice on TV smoking pot and drinking beer. How about this novel idea; you're paid bonus or raises based on the QUALITY and satisfaction of customers buying your product over 3, 4 or 5 years. Not this crap of 90 customer satisfaction stuff. Most people haven't even worn off those little rubber things on their tired when some companies are surveying customers. Let's see how your products hold up after a few years.

Why not ask for it...GM management has a weak backbone and our President
buys union votes....he's got their back when the company looks like its going under. GM should have gone bankrupt, been restructured and have the judge distinguish the union's death grip on the industry. The company, the shareholders, the customers and the tax payers all would have been better off !

What has Obama done to help the unions? This POTUS hardly cares or supports any union issues.

Get your propaganda straight before you post rancid drivel.

For starters, used bailout cash to cover pension loses for union members. Second, buried clauses in the Obamacare legislation to benefit union members. Third, award exclusions to mostly big unions across the US to allow them to opt out of his plan. And just to add insult to injury, use tax payer money to bailout GM and Chrysler, companies that are spiraling down due MOSTLY to EXPENSIVE and UNDERPERFORMING union work and UNFAIR BENEFIT PACKAGES.

LOL! more frivolous talking points with little substance from the ditto head gallery.

Obama is a professional politician and like many politicians today, is on the take from industry and represents special interest. He makes speeches and promises that aren't worth the paper those speeches are written.

If you can get all the qualified workers you need willing to work for $XX per hour, then why would you have to pay them $XXX per hour?
Would that extra cost be added to the price of a vehicle?
And wouldn't that reduce your competitiveness?
And wouldn't that mean that eventually those workers being paid $XXX per hour all lose there jobs?
And wouldn't that mean that the Gov't and taxpayer has to bail you out?
And wouldn't that mean that you could declare bankruptcy and set up a new company and hire workers at a lower cost (say $XX per hour) in order to remain competitive?
And wouldn't that mean that some union jackoffs wouldn't try to fuk things up again by insisting on higher wages?

Nice, wrong headed rationalization. It is not wages that are creating downward pressures on manufacturing costs in the U.S. it is lack of demand. Lack of demand due to falling wages. The U.S. is not China, where workers are willing to toil for pennies on the dollar.

If unions were the cause of bankrupting economies, Germany, Japan and South Korea, and many other nations would've outlawed them long ago.

Duh! Economics 101.

Actualy aggregate demand is not falling. What is falling is demand for goods produced in America because similar good from other countries are cheaper.
So more and more comes in from offshore and our folks are unemployed making nothing because they apparently would rather make nothing then to make a wage whereby goods could be produced at a price point where those goods could be sold competitively..
We essentially have 4 options.
1. Bring our production costs in line with offshore competitiion OR
2. Close the doors to imports
3. Put taxes and duties on all incoming good to the point where import costs plus taxes/duties equals the cost of domestic production.
4. Do nothing and watch America kiss its ass goodbye..

I'm just going to do a few, rather than typing out a point-by-point explanation to every point. Mean Vulcan has it about half-right...

"There are plenty of good union members that work hard and are dedicated and deserve good pay. Unfortunately, that is NOT the general rule. There is no incentive for contributing beyond your everyday duties because moving up is easy, all you have to do is put in the time (Seniority). "

You say you've worked with "unions", but no specifically the UAW, so I'm going to assume you HAVEN'T in fact worked with the UAW, or you would have cut to the chase. There can as much difference between "unions" as there is between a Kia and a BMW. In other words, while the SEIU, POA, ASCME, Teamsters, and UAW are all unions, they can and do often have goals that conflict with each other, just as they have different "styles".

As an actual UAW member, I'll be the first to say the UAW's international operations (that means HQ, not actual border-crossing) run something like the KGB. Everyone is afraid to make a decision, and they spend most of their time making sure they aren't displeasing the wrong clique... Just like corporate, capitialist America!

However, at least have the intelligence to realize what you know about the UAW is disseminated through media outlets that have all broken their various unions (CWA, Writer's guild, etc.) and certainly have a polical viewpoint. Oh wait, Rupert Murdock's FOX news is objective? You think I couldn't find lunching-Toyota employees at the bar in moonshine central? You see what they want you to see.

Google-up "IG Metall" sometime and include it in any discussion of any European automaker. These guys weild political clout the UAW could only dream of, and the power to keep tariffs in place that block US companies from importing to Europe. How'd you like it if the UAW could add $15,000+ to the price of your Mercedes? BTW, please challenge my point because I'd love to put up a few choice quotes from Sergio Marchionne about the power of European unions.

All that aside, whether you agree or not, Bob King (who I don't like) is DOING HIS JOB by demanding a better wage for 2nd tier workers. Just like a defense attorney defends a client. Ethically, he must bring the demands of the membership to the table. Grown-ups don't even waste time disputing this.

Now feel free to de-boost me.

you have to understand this entire site is NOT an about cars. Cars are only the backdrop for 009's agenda. Republicans have always had the idea of smashing the Unions would equate to defunding democratic support. This is why we see so many anti Union anti Obama material in place of good ol automobile news.

LoL. More infantile comments from the Ayn Rand school of dysfunctional, economic noodle brain works.