Is Volkswagen For Real? New Passat BEATS Accord And Sonata In C/D Comparo!

Why not?, I do not like it but most likely part of Audis Technology is migrating to it.

VW's have a bad rep, just stick to the Camry.

Well Toyota has not gotten the best rep....say in the last 2 yrs.Further VW has taken a whole new aproach in the US to selling cars. They are more and more interested in consumer feedback. Their reliability actually has improved in the last 18 months.Toyota has not only been losing market share to Ford,Chrysler and GM,the Korean's are really starting to take a slice out of them as well. The reluctance of executives to acknowledge that there have been any problems with the quality of their vehicle lines has been troublesome for the company. The negative publicity Toyota has received has not been 100% warranted in many cases but their PR has been terrible.Toyota might just get away with this bland new Camry because it caters to their Toyota faithful customers. It will help solidify their base.Considering that the Passat just went on sale in September 10,000 built Passats may be the right approach until they can gauge demand. If it is anywhere near the Jetta demand then VW will have a hit on it's hands.Thing is while the Passat is conservative and looks a little like the Jetta it still looks like an up class car and has that European cache. The problem in my view with the Camry is that it looks a lot like a Toyota Corolla. As I stated this is good for it's existing customer base but will it attract the # of new buyers into the fold when they can check out a Hyundai Sonata,Kia Optima, Ford Fusion etc. and yes even a VW Passat.Black dynamite mentions the HP and gas mileage on the Camry compared to Passat. How much does the Camry Hybrid cost? The Passat diesel starts in a little over 25 grand.I believe the Camry hybrid starts in around 28 or 29 grand with less options then a Passat.It's going to take a lot of gas fillups over a period of time to make up the difference in base cost.

Volkswagen is market leader in Europe, China, South America, Central America, bigger part of Africa and soon will become number one in the world. Only in USA customers don't like VW, so think about it!

PS: I'm not American and I don't like VW at all, but facts are facts!

The US Passat uses a simpler suspension because it is CHEAPER compared to the more complex and sophisticated European model. This is why the European Passat also costs more than the American Passat. Americans want cheap cars in this particular niche and VW responded by deleting something NON-ESSENTIAL like a more advanced suspension. Let's face it - the vast majority of people buying a Passat or any car here don't give a damn about track performance or sporty driving. The US Passat really doesn't need the Euro suspension and if it had it, well then guess what? The price would be driven north...

The American Chassis is similar to the Euro one. The difference is it is on a larger wheelbase and has a wider track. The suspension is also similar but has been tuned for a softer ride for the US. The reason the US Passat is cheaper is because it is built in Tennesee so there is no exchange disadvantage. VW could easily firm up the suspension if it felt there was a market for this. There could be an optional sport model in the future but I think VW Of America is more interested at this point in get the model going.By building the car in Tennesee alone VW was able to take 7 grand out of the sale cost to the USA.The old Passat was overpriced for this market and not roomy enough to compete with Accord,Camry,Altima ETC. This new one does. Frankly a Camry Hybrid must cost near 30 grand. A Passat diesel is around 25 grand. The Hybrid gets better mileage in the city where the Passat diesel gets better mileage on the highway. If you take an average of overall cost of driving the extra cost of a Camry Hybrid would take a few yrs to make up the 5 grand difference in their base prices at the gas pump. Plus the Camry looks like a bloated Corolla!

*oriental*?!

What is this, 1952?!

How about 'Asian'...

Look the Japanese are more then capable of building well engineered cars with good handling and decent quality.In Toyota's case their drive to be # 1 in sales on planet earth, I believe affected their judgement on quality and reliability a bit.They have had a wakeup call. Now it is a question of whether they will heed that call. I think they will. As for Honda their wakeup call is Ford, Chevy and Hyundai/Kia.They cannot get away with so so styling and cheap looking interior's or the market is going to seriously hurt them. The bar has been raised and they need to meet it.Then there is Mazda. Perhaps their problem is too out there styling. That Nagarre look aparently has turned off people to the 626.For the standard USA midsize sedan a little conservative styling conjugates function and reliability.The Passat has this as does the Camry.

I'm not a huge Accord fan, although I do love Hondas, but I was pleasantly surprised to see the Accord place second in this comparison. It's about to be replaced by a new model so for a 4-5 year old design it still beat the Sonata, a car that I like and respect. It's important to note that while Hyundai has made great strides of late, they still need to work on a few things, but all in all they took a gamble with their new cars despite some problems (fuel economy that doesn't quite live up to the estimates, refinement in chassis and steering/handling/ride, rear seat space) and it has largely paid off for them.

As for the Passat, not too surprised it won, but I am a bit surprised by how vanilla and marshmallowy and Camry-like it has gotton...

I also think if it were the 4-cyls/non turbo models that were compared, the Accord would have won easily - pretty good for a long in the tooth Honda...the ol' girl has some life in her yet.

Don't discount Honda, believing Hyundai is the new Honda, you're gonna see the big H flex its muscles very very soon - then watch out!

True - the new Civic is underwhelming but as an economy car, is it really worse than the Elantra, Focus, Cruze? Hardly - they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Also true that a few years back the Civic was pretty much alone at the top and now it finally has some real competition.

But that does not change the fact that we will see some pretty cool Hondas in the not so distant future - their engine families are at the end of their life cycle and new ones are coming very soon (for example Honda's J series is almost 14 years old - the new Accord will have a completely new V6, and most probably a new I4) .

Yet Honda's current engines are still some of the smoothest, most powerful WITHOUT new fangled direct injection. They also usually show the best REAL WORLD fuel economy, even with only 5 speed automatics rather than the 'more fuel efficient' 6spd autos and DI engines found in the competition.

After the recession, the tsunami/earthquake, and Honda's wake up call that competitors are stepping up their game - do you really think Honda will just give up and go home? If you do, well...I think you'd be foolish.

If you take into consideration all fqacets of owning a car-that is styling,performance,ride,handling,interior quality,comfort the Civic is clearly behind Ford,Chevy,Hyundai and about tied with VW. The Jetta offers more rear room and offers a diesel option and a much larger trunk. It's ride and handling compromise is better.Considering where Hinda was just a few yrs ago with the Civic it has fallen quite steeply. However Honda is not stupid and they probably get it now.

mini22-

I disagree with your assessment of the Civic to an extent. I'm no fan of the new Civic but objectively speaking, really the only place the car is less than the competition is styling and interior quality (I still think its durable, just cheap looking).

The Focus and Elantra nail the styling but suffer with cramped interiors (Ford: overall, Elantra: rear headroom). They both claim stellar fuel economy ratings, but every comparo test I read, the Civic always is a few mpgs better than both of them and the Cruze (with only a 5spd auto and a carry over engine no less).

As for ride/handling it has become more inert for the sake of being more comfortable, the steering too has been slowed - never a good thing in my book, but I can see why they tuned it that way for the masses.

As for the Jetta, you've mentioned some good points, but its interior quality has been ridiculed even more than the Civic, plus I'd take the Honda any day when comparing reliability...a very important facet of owning a car, not to mention price where I'm sure the Honda would be the better value.

If the Japanese cars are so good and reliable and built better as most of you say why dont they offer better warranty.GM and Hyundai offer 100,000 on powertrain.I know so many Japanese car owners with major engine/tranny problems and with no warranty.They get nailed when these break down.I guess the Japanese manufacturers know you only warranty your products as long as they are designed to last.

I really think you are going to see better reliability reports coming out of VW. VW now is taking the US sales very seriously. This of course has been very recent. Up until this point VW had a very arrogant approach to sales in the US. German engineering and you'll take it as we give it. It did not seem to be bothered by their price differences or some of the reliability problems that were plauging it.However VW has, I think, had a come to Jesus moment. They determined finally that to be competative in the US you have to be able to offer a competative size and competative pricing to compete against all the competition. It is true that the standard Jetta does suffer from cheaper plastics then the competition. It has the solid beam axle that it used to have.The car still drives well,offers more rear leg room then most and enormous trunk space.So far it appears to be working as sales have dramatically improved.And while it is a conservative design the car looks different then a 2010 model. The Civic has always been a leader in the segment in terms of ride and handling,styling, and interior quality.This new one compared to the previous models has simply fallen down. It no longer stands out in any area any longer.Clearly Hyundai,Chevy, and Ford have nicer interiors. Both Chevy and Ford handle better and get better fuel economy. IhavearedS2000 I agree with your point that Honda still has reliability on it's side.The question is with all the new competition will it hold it's resale value? I'm not so sure. I really think this new Civic(including the SI) is an inferior product to what Honda offered before.Dumbing down steering and softening the springs for the "Buick" effect might appeal to new buyers. But for previous Honda loyalists they might know the difference.

Absolutely agree that the new Civic has been watered down, turned Buick or Toyota-like, but not so the average buyer would notice. Enthusiasts however would and have...

I again have to disagree on some of what you said about the competition...

My breakdown:
Chevy: does not compete well on REAL WORLD fuel economy, conservative but handsome interior/exterior, handles ok but still pretty heavy car

Ford: does not compete well on REAL WORLD fuel economy, good interior/exterior (ford's new dash interface has a spotty record so far), great handling, crappy automatic transmission, tight interior

Hyundai: does not compete well on REAL WORLD fuel economy, fun exterior/good interior, competent but nothing special driving dynamics (still needs to be refined)

VW: Fuel economy good with diesel but not quite an apples to apples comparison, roomy, good driving dynamics but not great, interior cheap looking, exterior plain jane

All the cars above historically have had worse (much worse for some) reliability than the Civic, that might change or is changing but i think most people might not want to take the chance (as to what figian mentioned about warranties - the Japanese don't need to offer longer warranties on average where as the domestics and Hyundai needed to up the ante to prove that they are reliable because in the past they were notoriously none for being very unreliable and poorly made).

I think the new Civic is still a great car overall, but it's just an ok Civic if that makes sense - not great in any one area (fuel economy still stands apart from pack) but not horrible in any either (except interior materials)...

Only time will tell who comes up on top (or maybe they'll get somewhat equal shares of the pie catering to different types of consumers).

Also like to address the resale value which I forgot was a big selling point for Honda. Yes the resale might drop a bit due to competition but all the competitors except the VW have huge fleet sales that definitely affect resale value so I still think Honda (and VW if they can resolve bad reliability reputation) will come on tops...

Honda does need to offer more content and tech features on more trim levels, but I can see how it's sort of a catch 22 for them - by having limited trim levels and options they can cut down on costs but it doesn't help when comparing to the competition's ala carte style selection of features.