The Confessional Is Open: Why Do You Love To Hate A Brand?

We all have our favorite brands, and it is pretty obvious what they can be:  Agent00R falls down in favor of BMW and Hyundai time and time again.  Agent001 sometimes hints at BMW and Audi but holds Lexus dear as well.  As for yours truly, we all know I do favor the perennial underdog Audi, followed closely by Volkswagen. Now by reading your comments it is pretty clear, you each have your favorites as well.  No harm there at all.

But while we all beat to the tune of a different drummer on our likes, the question I want to know is what brands we don’t like and why.  If you ask 001 car that continually fails to impress him is the SMART.  Something about them fails to click with his inner child I guess.  If you ask me, you will see the ownership of three Lexus (one currently) and one Infiniti have cast significant shadows on both of those brands. 

Simply put a bad experience with any brand may tarnish your opinion, but is it limited to the car, the dealership, ownership experience or something else?  Some of these are easy to address, like moving to another service facility. Others are harder to resolve such as design issues or poor quality.  These are both valid reasons.

But I suspect a number of you simply don’t like a brand, and have never sat inside of it, or even driven one. If you think a Lexus is a glorified Toyota, or an Audi is a over grown VW then you probably haven’t ever driven one since the early 90’s, if ever. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. So is it envy sowing these seeds of hostility?

So now is your chance to settle the score and let us know why a certain brand strikes a negative chord with you.  Are they simply a poseur that doesn’t deserve the time of day from you?  Do think there design principals just stink? Perhaps the dealership may have screwed you over. 

We want to hear your horror stories, your terrible confessions. It is time to cleanse your soul and free your demons forever.  The Dr. is in and the couch is now open for your confessions.

Joe_Limon - 9/27/2011 5:33:16 PM

+3 Boost

so you let trolls sway your opinions?

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 10:34:50 AM

0 Boost

1911, did you even finish reading his post? He said he respected their racism lol

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 11:19:54 AM

-2 Boost

1911, yes, I found Carbon emissions and left it up to you to find more if you wanted. Have you found any documents stating that the viper doesn't pass current emissions laws?

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 4:12:25 PM

-1 Boost

you just asked for emissions, now you're stating regulated emissions. silly 1911. I proved you wrong again :) what are you going to deflect the subject to now to hide your shame?

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 4:40:21 PM

-2 Boost

No you haven't, you started out just stating emissions. When I provided links for emissions, you spun it and said regulated emissions. Do you need me to dig up quotes?

"Now, look up a link proving your claim the Viper has less emissions than the LFA."
1911 (asking for emissions not "regulated emissions") Posted on 9/16/2011 4:59:17 PM

"As to the emissions, they are in the link I provided for fuel economy numbers

Simply put.

LFA- 15.5 tons of CO2 annually
Viper- 11.6 tons of CO2 annually"

Posted on 9/16/2011 5:39:36 PM by Joe_Limon

Oh no! Foot in your mouth :) can't back out of this one can you? hahaha point Joe_Limon :D

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 5:19:10 PM

0 Boost

bahahaha! Yes, clear victory for me. I provide hard links and all you can do is fall apart and start f-bombing me. Thanks for the entertainment 1911. *bows and sign off*

topneuro - 9/27/2011 5:07:44 PM

+3 Boost

As an automobile enthusiast is not possible for me to love to hate a brand.
Only Fanboys and Badgewhores are supposed to do that.

Larrybel2000 - 9/27/2011 10:03:21 PM

+3 Boost

I'm in. I love to hate Smart - Way over priced. I love to hate Fiat - We need more than just the 500. I love to hate Tesla - Great concept but dove in to deep. I can go on and on but I hope someone else will join in.

Mason3Robert - 9/27/2011 10:14:27 PM

0 Boost

I love to Honda for not even trying to achieve a more manlier Accord Sedan....How about for not offering a sequential shifting automatic YET on the Accord..I mean come on, this is 2011! But I love their reliability and their consistency! Its a proven track that hasnt failed them!

Mason3Robert - 9/27/2011 10:14:48 PM

0 Boost

Add ^ HATE

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 10:40:21 AM

0 Boost

Are you the kind of person who only buys used cars that have no warranty left? This is 2011, issues rarely happen and most that do happen are covered within the first few to several years of warranty making the maintenance cost issues a mute point.

If you buy new, I'd say you're being ignorant. If you buy older used vehicles I'd say it's a very valid concern.

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 1:03:02 PM

-3 Boost

Do you buy new or used? Even if a car manufacturer is on the low end of the spectrum (i.e. on average gets one or two more issues per vehicle in the first few years of ownership) the warranty will cover issues.

If you buy used cars, then your points hold water as you don't want to be buying an unreliable car. If you buy new, then its not like you're paying for any potential repairs.

FanboyOfTheTruth - 9/28/2011 11:55:37 AM

+7 Boost

People hate because of garbage websites like AutoSpies and the sorry excuse of a human, i.e. Agent009, who promotes hate at every opportunity with garbage flame-baiting posts exactly like this one.

xjprou - 9/28/2011 12:02:16 PM

+3 Boost

Valid and true statement for JapanEngineeringNo1. Trying to be as realistic as possible, I might say that if someones consider buying an European or American car for reliability issues, badge pressures or poor performance as stated, please be aware that the before mentioned dream car, caused unsatisfied customers to file a class action lawsuit against Nissan, for the launch control problems causing broken transmissions and being denied a repair under warranty.
Even thought new units might have corrected this problem, not everyone is as passionate about cars, and it doesn't take as much as a broken transmission for having customers never returning to an specific brand.-

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 1:05:09 PM

-1 Boost

you keep mentioning badge pressures. What do you mean? Do you feel as though you're being forced to buy a vehicle because of its badge? and if so, by whom? Us random internet people?

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 2:10:57 PM

-1 Boost

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... aren't you letting badges govern your purchases? The stigma you have attached to these elitist marquees governs your purchases as much if not more then someone who buys a vehicle from these brands. If you're not concerned about badges but more so reliability, then I think you should follow a couple rules.

First, never ever buy a vehicle when it first hits the market. Even historically reliable companies make mistakes. It's best to wait a few years into the model cycle so they have time to iron out any potential issues.

Second, refrain from using manufacture based reliability data. Instead look at the segment you wish to purchase in and look at the historical top picks for that segment. Yes, there will be many Japanese vehicles in these lists, but there is a world of other vehicles that are just as if not more reliable then their Japanese competition.

Finally, as to maintenance costs, they mostly vary in regard to the purchase price of the vehicle, "luxury" vehicles will have a much more stringent and expensive maintenance schedule during the initial years of ownership compared to say... economy cars from any country of origin.

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 3:42:54 PM

+3 Boost

oh god no, I know I'm biased. I just don't try making myself out to be something I'm not.

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 3:46:51 PM

-1 Boost

Oh, but lexus vehicles do require you to be in the dealerships more then their respective competition. While they may not be visits fixing things that are currently broken, they have a more rigorous maintenance schedule. perhaps this has some help to them being "reliable"?

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 4:24:05 PM

-1 Boost

You just said that you want a car that doesn't have you in the dealership as often. Maintenance is being in a dealership silly :)

Also, I am beginning to realize why you have an issue with dealerships rejecting warranty work. If you don't follow the maintenance schedule and your vehicle breaks, I'm sorry to say but you've technically voided your warranty.

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 4:41:53 PM

-1 Boost

So...
"I am not so sure if I can count on "warranty" since there are dealerships that do not honor your warranty at all sometimes."

Isn't actually based on anything? lol

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 4:43:42 PM

-1 Boost

Also, my point was that your point about having to visit dealerships regularly is silly, since the manufacturer asks that you visit them more regularly.

I'll give you another chance, do you wish to rephrase it a bit?

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 5:07:30 PM

0 Boost

I guess I don't. Are you talking local news? Can't say I watch much tv.

I was allowing you the opportunity to rephrase "dealership visits" as... something more pin pointed such as "repairs". This would make your argument correct.

As it lies, if you do buy say, a Lexus, and you aren't the type that slacks on regular maintenance, then you will visit dealerships more then you would if say... you bought a Mercedes or Cadillac.

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 5:16:07 PM

0 Boost

haha, I'm squirming and you're the one frothing at the mouth cussing at me?

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 5:27:12 PM

-2 Boost

Articles such as this one.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q3/2008_lexus_is_f-long-term_road_test/maintenance_and_fuel_costs_page_2

Also, I much prefer arguing with you JapanEngineeringNo1. You have thought put behind your argument and clearly don't try misconstruing what I say.

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 5:56:51 PM

0 Boost

funny, didn't JapanEngineeringNo1 just do the same blanket approach about the entire Japanese motor industry about his isolated experiences with a few of their products? Surely this isn't enough data points to prove a point? lol

I'm not calling him out on it though because I don't expect him to provide me with a broad all encompassing proof. Expecting that much from him is silly, and is trolling :) likewise, I'd appreciate if you backed off my isolated proof. If you don't I might follow you and discredit what you say in a similar fashion.

Joe_Limon - 9/29/2011 1:43:44 AM

-3 Boost

yes, the cars it is being compared and contrasted to are also performance models and as such will see the same increase in maintenance costs etc. It's not like they are comparing isf maintenance to Audi a4 maintenance.

xjprou - 9/28/2011 4:00:11 PM

0 Boost

Let me explain you something! When you are in the market for some desired article, in this case a sports car, your peers might influence you in what you are looking for, but what you choose at the end should be only your own decision. Why? A sports car is not cheap (depends on what you are looking for) and a car, even thought not much people see it that way, is a very personal thing. Just think how much time we spend day by day in traffic jams, imagine yourself driving a car that doesn't fill your needs or your own taste, so again don't let what you call "badge pressure" or others pressure, to choose wrong.
And remember that what might be a big problem for me, probably is not for others, it just depends the way you see it. If you tell me today that my recently bought Japanese sports car, blew its transmission, for the use of an addition of the own car and developed by its manufacturer to be used as it should, believe me that I will never be looking for the same brand again, specially if they do not want to honor their warranty to me and to their own product.-

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 5:15:21 PM

-2 Boost

The GTR transmission issues affected something like 11% of their whole production at the time. This is huge, and is in part why it got blown so out of proportion, could you imagine if 11% of Ferrari's caught fire? Further, the vehicles that did get wrecked were footed with a huge $20,000 bill.

But you're correct, those issues have been resolved a long time ago. It's another story in the book as to why you should never buy a vehicle brand new to the market. The new GTR's keep getting better, especially with the continual power gains. To believe any and all GTR's made since them are unreliable is well... ignorant as believing any and all vw's aren't reliable.

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 5:49:23 PM

-1 Boost

I still think it's fair. What do you think would make a bigger news headline? "local clown gets pie in face" or "president gets pie in face"?

Nissan got hammered more then Ferrari for three main reasons
-Nissan has a reputation or reliability, Ferrari doesn't therefore the articles are less sensational.
-Nissan's transmission issue affected 11% of all GTR's produced at the time, burning Ferrari's netted less then 1%
-Ferrari offered a recall for the fire issues, Nissan never recalled their transmissions (although I'm not entirely sure if the old GTR's got the updated launch control code)

Joe_Limon - 9/28/2011 6:13:21 PM

-2 Boost

When I said hammered, I don't mean the cars being beat up, I was referring to the negative pr Nissan received.

Yes, I am very confident that it is less than 1% if it was more than 1% then every year up until that recall you would have seen at least 65 different cars burning to the ground. Part of the reason why the issue has existed for a long time is because these events occur in such small numbers it's hard to determine whether it was a design flaw that caused the fire or negligence from not following Ferrari's strict maintenance regime, or some other factor. If it was happening to 11% of Ferrari's it would be very easy to come to the conclusion that it was a design flaw.

xjprou - 9/28/2011 5:57:46 PM

0 Boost

Sorry my friend, but It was not my intention to hurt your feelings to your dream car. Every car manufacturer nowadays has its merits, and I'm rational enough to appreciate that without letting the passion obnubilate me. I'm taking it as an example of your comment about badge pressure and that kind of nonsense. Again, as I said at the beginning of my comment (I'm trying to be as realistic as possible) for posting here, based on what you wrote. I'm afraid to tell you that I'm not as young as you might think, but is up to you and to your criteria about the seriousness you want to give to my comments. For you to be posting here, it takes maturity and to let your passion aside in order to be able to organize your feelings and emotions. Talking about Porsche, and let me take your words when you said "Not trying to brag about it" but believe me when I tell you that I know the brand very, very well thus I know to whom it's directed to, since my professional experience includes 6 years of working as a general manager for the brand in my country. For your last answer I see that is not only the "badge pressure" that makes you confused, but also the answer to your posts......
Nice talking to you!!!
Bye!!!

xjprou - 9/28/2011 6:08:01 PM

0 Boost

-Joe_Limon, apparently the owners of the cars with transmission problems did not got the warranty coverage, because they did not hammered one of the units with problems......
Probably this weekend will see and add about a new 3D LED TV, that makes you blind if you use the lenses. It's up to you if you pay for it and use them:-)

USNA1999 - 9/28/2011 7:02:56 PM

-1 Boost

I guess this has turned into a pissing contest.
I love to hate Lexus because of my LS 460. I wanted a S550 or a A8 but both where priced out of my budget. After 2 years of ownership I can say Lexus service has been great but that is about it. The car does not stick out, its not sporty at all and everyone thinks I am 60+ years old. WTH? Anyone wants to trade for a 2008 Nissan GTR or 2008 Porshe 911? LOL! I guess buyers remorse!

Joe_Limon - 9/29/2011 10:25:13 AM

0 Boost

I notice you logged into your number 7 account. Busy deboosting are you?

No he clearly bought the LS460 thinking it would be similar to a S550 or an A8, which he clearly stated.