Why Audi will never catch BMW in sales, although it will always be a direct competitor.

Whatever buddy, I think both BMW AND MB both offer all wheel drive on their cars. Who had that first? Yes, Audi did. That is all.

You're absolutely correct about the lousy dealers and lack of customer service. But perhaps not about the cross-ownership with VW; after all, Porsche now has a major interest in VW too.

BTW, Fiat owns Ferrari. Fiat makes cheap cars, does it effect Ferrari. The answer is no. Can you say owned? VW owns Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti. Those looks like some of the finest automakers in the world. Porsche is connected with VW, I guess Porsche is not down on your list. It is obvious you have been sucked in by BMW's marketing campaign. You even used their own words. "BMW is an independent company" Who cares if they are independent.

Yes, I didn't mention this before, but Audi had a turbocharged AND direct injected engine before BMW. It looks like BMW follows other's innovations.

GermanNut points seem very relevant here. Audi's push the last few years have been credible and I do like some of there current models especially the venerable RS4, although I feel their interior is greatly overrated. The truth is, yes, BMW remains and independent company and although we hate to admit it VW will always have direct influence on Audi. On the otherhand, Lamborghini, Bentley, etc. (also Aston Martin [Ford]) are in much higher price brackets that room for using higher quality equipment etc. is possible.

BMW4DH

Drinking more BMW advertising Kool Aid. How is it?

Watch this. Yes, the VW Golf is better than the BMW 1 series.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9HWWeRpvKII&search=golf%20118d

It’s a sad day when you come to the realization that a fellow car enthusiast has put away objectivity and has succumb to the siren calls of the marketing machine.

Audi has had a number of innovations that GermanNut conveniently forgot including Quattro, the direct injected turbo engine (which he is now fan of when they slapped a BMW badge on it), multitronic CVT, and aluminum frames just to name a few.

I’ll admit that there is nothing like the feeling of drifting through a RWD oversteer, and for enthusiast who actually know what they’re doing, this fact alone with turn them off from the AWD Audi. However, while it might not be as much from the RWD purist’s perspective, AWD is superior technology. AWD connects more of the power to the road, which results in faster, safer cars.

I would argue that being an independent company is actually a drawback. BMW is limited to the innovations produced by their own research teams. By being a part of the much larger Volkswagen Group, Audi can tap the research efforts and engineering teams within the entire company. While it’s very easy to pick on Audi for being VW’s old brother, nobody ever seems to mention that Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti are all under the same umbrella.

Interiors and AWD are nice and all, but I agree, the cars in this market are ultimately high-end road bound rocket ships. The performance, for most people, is all that matters and Audi is doing pretty good for themselves in that department. The RS4 has absolutely destroyed the M3 and if we look at the far end of the spectrum, the R10 has eaten everything else for lunch.

I own a B7 A4 and I absolutely love it. For <$40k, I haven’t driven another car that connects with me with the road and has been as beautifully crafted as this car. And my absolute favorite part of owning the Audi is that it’s not a BMW. BMW has become a victim of its own success, the exact same marketing that has driven BWM to be the leader in its market space has created a new class of people for me to hate.

Germannut is a complete idiot. He was just posting about how Audi will dominate BMW in 2015 and how Audi's interiors are so superb. So now he's saying that he's going to go a BMW? Germannut job is just trying to stir up controversy. So everybody when you see a post with his name under it skip it

This is such a poor use of litterary space. How can some one come on here and post such a biased opinion and the title comes across like fact to those who are not in the know. Chewy hit some great points here. Audi does not make a problematic car. In fact BMW recalled and bought back a very high percentage of 745's when they first hit the market. I work for an Audi dealer and only see my customers when service is due. I left Mercedes because of reliability issues and heard much of the same from my counterparts at our BMW store. I own 2 Audi's now after being here 1 year and I swear by them. I am very rough on cars and have not been able to hurt one yet. You can buy your BMW if that badge(oops propeller) makes you feel complete. Also keep in mind BMW only outsells Audi here in the US where your percieved image is King. They will overtake BMW that you can bank on. So get your Bimmer and come trade it in for the Audi when you regain your sense of self. Learn to "Never Follow". Oh yeah and by the way Volkswagen doesn't make cheap cars, the term is in-expenive!

FSI/ TurboFSI/ AWD(Quattro)/ DSG. {Also first with the hugely powerful 4.0L[Now 4.2] Twin Turbo Diesel in its Luxury Sedans that MB & BMW had to hurry up and try to match}

That was a few that i can think up right this second.

The RS Badged variants of Audi vehicles have always thrashed their M badged or AMG badged counterparts ( Go do your research)

Last the RWD story is valid only in part, If you go to track-days to race your vehicle or own your own racetrack then you have a point. However if you just drive very fast on public roads then you have no point at all, RWD induced powerslide is not needed on public roads, it makes more sense to chanell all available power to all wheels for maximum traction, J Clarkson showed with the CL65 how useless it is to have 650 Bhp and almost 750 lb Ft of tourque going to the rear tyres only. the contact patch with the ground is less than the area of an A4 piece of paper. thus most of the power is wasted on Melting rubber.

Also FACT [Audi Outsells BMW in UK & Europe]

Next time you come over to Europe/ Uk go check out the Best spec'd VW Golf, I'll Bet you whatever you want that it has better quality fit and finish and materials of a similarly priced BMW

And all reviews noted that the Passat also had much better interiors in terms of materials, fit and finish compard to a similarly priced 3 series.

So you see even the VW brand is not to be underestimated.

Im Done Schooling You.

1. Just because you had problems with that car dosen't meen anything. The JD power reports for several years have audi #1 aboung the german 3

2. the most copied car is the TT and the most boring car is the Honda or Toyota and their sales are #1

3. you are all over the map on this one but i think that my last reply tells all.

FSI, Quattro, ASF, V8 S4 RS4 (bmw to follow with the new M3) Engines? What about the RS4? The S8? S6?

4. nice power slide into a poll. Give me quattro and my quattro launch or let me take the S8 to Mammoth.

5. you need to stop watching BMW commertials. Independant? They don't have shareholders ? Audi has benifited from VW and Lambo and Bentley has benifited from Audi

6. The Audi dealer network could use some help but more and more dealers are forced to go to the hanger stores and there are horrable MB and BMW dealers so what is the point? As sales increase then so will the quality dealers. Several Audi dealers are being forced to sell out to the better dealers. 5 or more are being forced to just in the LA area alone

There are several cars that are comming to the US that will show people how great the GMBH devision is. We have only had the RS4 and RS6 so far. BMW can only hope to keep up. AMG has been washed out as a brand. I am waiting for the PAcifica AMG model.

Absolutly agree with the topic.

I can say many things to prove this but here's a small example,that first came to my mind while seeing the topic.
I drive a 06 M5 and i know that there is no car in Audi's line-up that can give me the same feeling,control,ride,handling...etc that my M5 gives me everytime.

All in all Audi is great company but BMW
is the ULTIMATE.


JUGNU------>THE CARMAN

Coming from a one time Audi owner.....I really agree with all the points above.

Not that anyone cares but here's my personal reason for TOTALLY agreeing with this article.

Awhile back, I bought a brand new 2001 Audi A6 2.7T . Loved the interior. A nice car. However...... It was such a NIGHTMARE. Everything....and I mean EVERYTHING....went wrong with this car. I owned it for under a year......and was tired of the horrible service and ridiculous reliability. I decided to purchase something else.

Cue the BMW.

I was a skeptic of BMWs because of their stellar reputation and brand/snob appeal. I now know why they receive the praise they do. I owned my first 330Ci for 2 years (40,000miles) without a single problem. Not one. The brakes were replaced at 35,000 miles and everything else was standard maintenance. Simply.....the car could be driven hard...and take it. Unlike the Audi.

Imagine my surpise come trade in time to see how much value my car had held. Again....unlike the Audi.

I decided to buy a BMW again.....a 2004 330i Performance Package....and after 2.5 years of ownership, I can report Ive had absolutely no problems, and I drive the hell out of it.

Besides being fantastic automobiles to drive and own.....this is what will keep me coming back to BMW.

They deliver on every single level, something Audi most certainly doesnt do.

These people who attack BMW have obviously never had the joy of owning one.

Hah! I hope everyone learns from this...
GermanNut, a very well known Audi enthusiast on this website has been deterred by BMW's greatness, his loyalty tottally changed.

These are by far the smartest points he's made on this website, and i'd like to say i tottally agree. With exception to Mercedes and BMW copying Audi on the AWD, by offering it in their car's well after Audi introduced Quattro.

That said BMW is by far the most innovative car company out their. Their engineering & ideas are found in all type of car's wether it be Japanese, American, Italian, German etc.

So I really just wanted to say, welcome to the BMW club GermanNut...You made the right choice bud.

wasn't germanuts past screenname BMW4Ever or somthing like that. The swing in his attitude happened faster then Darth Vator. I think we had a true AutoSpy in our ranks.

After owning a Jag S-type,Lexus SC,2-Lexus GS,Lexus LS 400, 2-Lexus RX 300's a marginal BMW Z3 and 3-Saabs I think I can comment on Quality and performance in the AUDI line.... Have owned 2 Great A6's & currently own an A4 3.2..... Lexus comes close to Quality of an Audi but falls shorts in the long run, Jag is a Joke, and the BMW Z3 is way off the mark. Credit Saab for what they are and I would consider another Saab someday. The FUTURE looks bright for the Audi brand.

AMG will save Mercedes-Benz? WHAT? AMG's account for a small percentage of Mercedes-Benz car sales. Your true Mercedes-Benz customer will probably care little about AMG anyway. And I think MB build quality is just fine, it's the electrics which were a bit shakey.

Also, Audi still has a bright future ahead. You claim that just because BMW offers purist M RWD sports cars, Audi will never make it. Wrong. There are enthusiasts out there for whom the grip advantages of AWD appeal to. People who might also live in an icy area and want an AWD sports sedan. Those are the people an Audi AWD sports sedan appeals to.

Knowing Germannut he probably has many screennames

Y2006, I have finally realized and I guess you can say succumbed to BMW's firewpower.

I don't have more than one screename. On the previous autospies website I was the user known as BMW4EVER.

I'm an Audi customer that is completely fed up and annoyed with the electrical problems and bad customer service.

I believe the points that I mentioned above are true and I don't believe there will ever be as big of a market for enthusiasts that prefer the grip advantage of AWD.

There maybe a few, but if I had to bet many more people would prefer throwing the tail of their car around and flicking their wrist ever so slightly and having the car follow their every command.

I have realized just how great BMW is. Their brand recognition is bulletproof. Their marketing is clever. Their cars are innovative and most importantly fun to drive.

Up to this point Audi has none of those characteristics at the same level as BMW.

I will say it BMW is a better car company than Audi and their cars are better than Audi also!

The Mercedes S-Class was the first car to have air bags, 3 point seat belts, a GPS, and ESP

JUGNU

The S6 right now approaches the M5, it might be slightly less extreme, but overall it has beaten the M5 in two comparison tests. When the RS6 comes out, it will definately be better than the M5.

BMW is for those people who have money and like to flash it. Audi is for people who have money but don't want anyone to know.

BMW in my opinion is now a more dominant car company than Audi and will always be a more dominant car company in terms of design, public perception, road manners and prestige.

Oh yeah I forgot one more thing....sales too.

I'm very excited to join the BMW camp.

Germannut something is really wrong with you. I think you have a little too much time on your hands. So now all a sudden you like BMW? Just yesterday you where just talking about how Audi is so great. You need to go get checked you are a real psycho.

What the? And here comes the latest in Audi backers all on one site. Lets clear the air about user names. My previous name was motorsports but wanted to change. I have never owned an Audi. That being said my brother is a mechanic for Audi and has been so for about 3 years.

Audi will never pass BMW. People on here comment about how Audi's RS division is better than BMW M division. I ask how so? The previous RS6 was not as fast nor handled as well as the previous generation M5. The current RS4 performs better due to the fact it has almost 100 more hp and is a V8. Wait til the new M3 arrives, then we will see who is eating crow. The current Audi Rs4 is only .3 of a second quicker to 60 miles per hour than the current 333 hp M3. It doesnt stop and faster nor does it handle better. Not really a fair comparison. Anyways .....


Someone brought up the BMW 7-series and the problems that happened to it. BMW did stand behind their customers and offer buyouts of most of them. Didnt Audi have a very bad Transmission problem in the early 90's which about killed their name in the US? I believe it had something to do with lurching forward when at a complete stop. The difference is that BMW recovered from setbacks to accell and to keep pushing the envelope. What has AUDI done lately? Audi has improved but they have still had some major issues. When the S4 came out during the first couple years they were having serious problems with the reliability and electrical issues with the engine. The A6 has never been a great performer and been very unreliabile, but Audi wants to Charge as much for a 5-series ( which has led the Mid-size luxury sedan segment for the past 10 years in sales ). The beloved Audi TT had some serious issues with lifting in the rear end due to design flaws ( remember when that car came out and some people driving on the Autobahn were reported as to losing control due to rear end lift. So what did Audi do is put a rear spoiler on the back of the car to keep the ass down. )... The current Audi Q7 has a shortage of Technology packages and causing a slow down in sales of the truck due to it. This is supposed to be their statement into the luxury SAv/SUV market and they have a shortage of a major package for their car? Huh ... How is Audi going to catch up and pass BMW when they introduce a car and dont have enough supplies. Didnt Audi pay $770 million to buy Bentley and the factory in crewe for the Rolls, but forgot to buy the name and symbol from Vickers PLC ( which is EVERYTHING to ROLLSROYCE ). BMW on the other hand paid $77 million. Who was the brains on that decision AUDI?

Being reliable doesn't make a car luxurious, but having your car break down on the side the road doesn't make the owner feel very luxrious either.

Audi's cars are not reliable at all. Audi's have and will always have an inferior image to BMW in the world.

I'm proud to say my first Audi will be my last. The reliablity sucks. There are mechanical and technical problems all the time.

Long live BMW as they have just earned a life long customer!

BMW4Ever4Ever: Some corrections first:

0-60
RS4 4.6
M3 5.4

0-120
RS4 15.8
M3 18.8

1/4 mile
Rs4 12.8
M3 13.6

At the Ring the RS4 leaves the M3 in the dust. So far I have not seen a test that indicates the other. The M3 simply can't keep up at this point. On the track where you put it together as a unified package the RS4 man handles the M3.

The new M3 is sometime off, I don't know about you, but I live in the present not the past or the future. But you are right, it will be a better car, but will it be THE better car?

Source: http://www.autospies.com/news/Hot-data-comparison-How-does-the-new-Audi-RS4-stack-up-against-Porsche-BMW-and-others-5813/

I take some time off and lots of interesting developments occur??? Being a former Benz guy (My family or myself have owned everthing from 70s and 80s S-classes to 3 generations of E classes etc..) and for short period BMW guy, I love hearing the unexposed rant and rave..

BMW for Ever,

A few quick points,

1) Audi didn’t buy Bentley, VW did.
2) The only way to get a car to move is to step on the gas. Cars simply don’t drive themselves so I can’t vouch for a few morons who can’t tell the difference between a gas and a brake pedal. The issue was never proven, but subsequent research suggested the pedals were close enough for some retards to mix them up..


GermanNut,
You’re certainly living up to your name. I was going to respond, but then figured that it would be pointless because next week you’ll be supporting M-Benz and bashing BMW and then the week after supporting Porsche and bashing Benz. To help us out, please post your car manufacturer of the week on a calendar so that we’ll know what’s coming up next. Anyway, you have only one "partially" valid point, and that's RWD is great for sliding around, doing donuts etc. on a “dry” track so that can be a lot of fun, especially if you’re a teenager or at the least drive like one, but it doesn’t get you around the track quicker than staying glued to the road as demonstrated by Jeremy Clarkson in the S4/ M3 showdown, and when it rains as it does very often (Over 80 days most places in the NE)) you’re screwed or as some new Yorkers say “forgettaboutit” not to mention snow. Cars have 4 tyres and the only reason a lot of cars are either front or rear wheel drive are because they’re easier and cheaper to make. Try tying up one of your legs and then limping around on the other?? Want innovation, see below:

1) First production car with all wheel drive, and Benz and BMW followed with 4-matic and “x”. Now even Lexus, and Acura have jumped on the 4 wheel drive bandwagon (Lexus with the LS460, Acura with the RL)
2) First Luxury car with Aluminum Chassis (ASF)
3) First Diesel engined car to blow away rivals at Le Mans..not to mention the FIA banning Audi after they molested the competition for years on the super touring car circuit
4) FSI, DSG (FYI….BMW is ditching its hopeless SMG to jump on the multi-clutch bandwagon and so are Lexus, and Ferrari (yes Ferrari)!
5) W engine (how many entirely new engine configurations have you heard of since the Rotary engine???) Innovation is about figuring how to bring something new to the market
6) BMW and Audi were both working on a car interactive computer systems at the same time, but BMW came out a few months earlier with that piece of junk called I-drive simply to say they were the first. What they should have done was to figure out how to make it work properly before rushing it out of the factory
7) First and only manufacturer to build cars with 100% galvanized steel hence the 12 year unlimited mileage corrosion warranty (best in ind

Maxed out on space so here goes
7) First and only manufacturer to build cars with 100% galvanized steel hence the 12 year unlimited mileage corrosion warranty (best in industry for years)
8) How many BMW’s have LED headlamps?? None! The current S6 (note that the A8 had it years back in the tail lights). Here’s a quiz. FYI..can you tell me which future BMW model lifted the LED day-time running laps from the Audi S6? It was a shameless copy!!
9) First car manufacturer to have 3 models on the Institute of highway safety’s best picks for crashes. See link.. enjoy.!! http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx

This is what "Vorsprung durch Technik” means..


Part 2..Want some more...see below

A4 2.0 annihilates the competition including the 325 ix.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280

This actually contains a video..I suggest you all watch the video for each car to see what sure footed handling is all about. Also, read through the stats and compare the cars’ weights and horsepower and then you’ll get it. Ha ha. If you don’t, you’ll never get anything!!


S4 dispatched the M3 in the Top Gear showdown. (why even bother discussing M3 vs. RS4 when the S4 has already dispatched the M3? Oh I forgot, they're supposed to be competing.. the competition will be more like a 10 year old boy scout armed with sticks going against a Navy seal with laser guided weapons..no contest!!


A6 annihilates the competition including the 545
http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_sport_sedans_comparo/


A8 annihilates the competition including the 745i
http://automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0309_luxury_comparo/


How many people saw Last week’s Business week’s article which referenced the latest JD Power survey and Audi push up the ratings ladder?
http://www.businessweek.com/print/globalbiz/content/jul2006/gb20060710_991925.htm


Audi is the #1 brand in Germany, and in Europe leads all German cars (expect Porsche in reliability) but then Germannut wouldn’t know that. Dude, when I first started my first degree, I had a Honda that overheated in bad traffic. I know people who have had problems with thier Toyotas, but so what! One or two ranting dudes, assuming your problems are actually true, is not reflective of anything. Didn’t you take Statistics? See the latest JD Power results below for relatively more realistic extrapolations

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/06/07/jdpower_iqs/

Audi is ranked higher than BMW and MB so what are you taking about? So next time you post baseless articles, I’ll be sure to strip out German from your username.

GermanNut thats the best thing you have ever published. ive been reading you articles for a long time and this is the first time ive ever responded on this site. well done BMW build cars for drivers.

planoA4 the M3 is only a 3.2litre inline six compared to the all wheel drive v8 and the M3 is 5 years old wait for the next one.

I have been an Audi owner for 3 years now, first with a TT and then an A4. The things that really stood out to me as a car buyer with Audi was the superior quality of its vehicles. Are they perfect? No. But then again, neither are BMWs. However, after test driving both brands, I can confidently say that Audi is better in some key points over BMW.

In performance, they are about the same. No significant difference.

In quality, which means the materials used to build the car inside and out, and the overall craftmanship, Audi tops BMW EASILY. This IS important because when I spend my money on something I want it to feel worth it. Everyday I get into my Audi and notice the quality interior I am glad I don't have a BMW.

In price, they are very close; no significant difference.

In design, they are also very close. Although they have very different styles. Audi is more conservative and elegant, while BMWs are more stylish and daring. Some say this is a weakness of Audi, and I tend to agree - although ironically I think it's also a weakness of BMW because sometimes they tend to over do it (i.e. Z4).

I think if Audi wants to get more buyers they really need to evolve their design more. It seems like they are going at a snail's pace, which isn't good, especially when BMW is taking so many chances with their design.

In terms of innovation, it would seem that BMW is leading the way. However, I don't know enough to really make an educated assessment. For example, when I heard about BMW's Car-to-Car Communication feature a few months ago, I was really impressed. But apparently Audi was working on this too at the same time, and just hasn't announced it yet.

So they are both neck-and-neck. I wouldn't desparage one over the other, though. They are both good automobiles (the 2 best, in my opinion), but I do want to see Audi take it up a notch (or two) with its design direction.

Oh, and your statement that Audi is an unreliable brand is TOTALLY false. I haven't had a problem in 3 years.

Some people here really hate audi. Is it so hard to say that audi is doing pretty good.

Who cares if BMW is an "Independent Company"? In the end, it's the car that counts. If the product is crap, that's all that matters.

It's clear that BMW fans are holding on to the various illusions that BMW puts in front of them so they don't have to see the truth.