What's HARDER In The USA? Finding Hybrid Or Clean Diesel Customers?

My guess for US customer that is hard to find would be diesel. I've lived and worked abroad for 10 years now but do go back to the US every year and don't notice much change in terms of attitude/perception towards diesel.

I would love to see more diesels over here, but with cheap gas (see Europe if you don't think we have cheap gas) that's not going to happen for a while. There are so many diesel versions of cars we drive over here (mine for starters) that give better gas mileage and torque that, sadly, never see the light of day over here.

I'm gonna be an ass... sorry. But of course diesels get better "gas mileage" they use diesel! It's their diesel mileage you should be talking about. lol

It's harder to find a clean diesel car. I think they would outsell hybrids due to lower cost and better gas milage if more were available. What ever happened to the push for natural gas.

@1911
While some hybrids get "much" better mileage, make sure you are comparing similar vehicles first. There's also a lot to be said about driving experience, with the bucket full of torque that diesel provides.

Finally, the cost of diesel is highly dependent on location. There are many locations in the US where D2 is lower than Premium gas, and in some cases near or equal to RUG. I would gladly pay $2k more for a diesel (which is about what they all are if you compare equal equipment) which gives me 30-40% higher mileage, even if the fuel costs me 10% more.

There just isn't enough choice in the US at this time. That's the major issue, at least for me.

I'm gonna go ahead and argue on the hybrid side for a second. Diesel's buckets of torque don't really change the driving experience. I state this numerous times but, two cars hitting lets say 200hp at 60mph will both have 1250lbs of force at the wheels (minus drivetrain losses). A hybrid car would have the advantage however, it's electric motor provides the low end torque (from 0rpm) that the gasoline engine can't provide, thus the hybrid powered car would have a much flatter torque curve. What does this mean in terms of performance? well quite simply, predictability and netting 90% of power over a much larger range of speeds.

Not much better milage, 2012 Passat 43mpg on highway. I bet the diesel runs cleaner over all..

Hybrids do not offer the performance, and if you drive a hybrid to deliver the performance of a diesel the mileage is less. Diesel all the way for me. the BMW 335D where are you going to find a car that can go 0-60 in 5.9-6.2 seconds and get 36mpg on the highway? A 535d would be better. Plus hybrids have a much more complex powertrain meaning more things that can go wrong, snd when the warranty is up, repairs can be an arm and a leg concerning battery packs, switches, controllers etc.

CarreraGT, you can have a low torque motor with a flat torque curve. It simply revs higher. Why you would assume the low torque motor to be peaky is beyond me.

Do you mean it isn't a problem for vehicles that spend their time near the redline or at full throttle?

Regardless, your argument assumes that diesel engines are more likely to be operated at redline more often. This simply isn't the case. Have you ever driven a street bike? Bikes that rev to 13,000rpm or more will rarely see redline but it is far more often to see them shifting around 9000rpm. My point being, someone who is driving a diesel engine with a 4000rpm redline that usually shifts around 2500rpm, will shift around 8125rpm in a 13,000rpm street bike. These shift points are proportional. A high revving motorbike engine will NOT be regularly shifted at 2500rpm due to a lack of torque.

Simply put, you don't rev the hell out of diesel engines, and you don't rev the hell out of high speed gasoline engines under everyday scenarios.

More people I know have hybrids than diesels - The main problem being diesels are harder to find (except for VW). I tried buying a 335d a while back and there were none available and I didn't feel like waiting - too bad - would be great to see a C class or A4 with a diesel but they don't exist here in the US

I believe people want hybrids and sales will only go up. They will temporarity see a sales decrease when gas prices temporarily dip. But those prices will always go up. Also this new generation of hybrids have made a big leap in performance and FE in the past year. Not just Toyota, but Ford, Hyundai and others have made huge improvements from the first round of hybrids. Partially that's because the gas part of the engines has improved, but so have the batteries. When will the next leap in diesel technology be?

Then there's the cost of fuel. As gas goes up, diesel climbs higher. It is consistently 30-40 cents higher than regular, and let's face it, most hybrids run on regular, not premium. Diesel fans seem to not care, but the general public will be unwilling to pay this premium.

Further, hybrid sales in the US have been constrained by high demand in Japan (Prius), natural disasters (Prius, CT200h), and poor planning and marketing (all Ford hybrids). Hybrid sales could double if the production kept up.

Perhaps one could argue that diesel vehicles' supplies are artificially constrained also. Diesel take rates are high when they are made available. If they sent a few thousand more Q7s and A3s per month over, would they sell? My guess is no. I think VW and the other diesel mfrs are sending over the quantities and percentages that they know will sell. BTW, I take "diesel take rates" with a grain of salt. Usually they are choosing to compare the diesel to just one other model in the range, whichever one they deem most comparable.

I guess the only way to know if diesels will ever sell is if VW, MBZ, or BMW take a risk and send more over. So why aren't they? Are they taking a loss on everyone they sell because they should be charging more? Has market research indicated that the market is saturated? Any ideas?

I think sometimes gas vs diesel price is an issue but not in premium cars. Most times you have to put premium in a BMW/Audi/MB which is close to the same price if not more than diesel...Different story though with VW's, Toyota's, Honda's etc...

I think Hybrids like the new Lexus GSh, Infiniti M hybrid and the various Porshe hybrids should answer the hybrid performance problem. Diesels in Europe and Hybrids for the U.S. Even though Hybrids are making an impact in Europe also. Mercedes, BMW and VW make some very good Hybrids now with more on the way.

A diesel hybrid would get the ultimate fual economy. Imagine a 1.8l 110hp, 200 lb/ft torque turbo diesel instead of the gasoline engine in a car like the camry or fusion hybrid. the fuel economy would be astronomical. Easily over 50 mpg, and the city economy would be great as well. the price premium over regular is easily overcome by the fuel economy. I can't understand why they don't do that.