Was Audi's USA President Right? The Chevrolet Volt Is A Car For "Idiots?"

I saw ONE on the streets of New York, and I'm on the road everyday.

He is correct.

In the good times people with spare disposable income have the luxury to worry about environmental issues and as such will not think too much about wasting approx 30% of vehicle value on "Green" tech.

When (As Now) times get harder they are less likely to worry about such abstract issues and worry instead about value for money or instant savings.

Try asking anyone these days to "Offset their Carbon Footprint" and see if they don't punch your lights out.

Sales wise its doing very well, it's beating the leaf and that thing is a pure electric that's cheaper.

Further, I don't think Jay Leno is an idiot, and so far he's driven his volt over 10k miles apparently.

Sales are actually way under expectations and the Leaf is a tiny car. The Volt is in a different class as it seats 4 (or 5).

The fact Jay Leno drives one means nothing. The guy is rich, so the price point of this car to him is almost meaningless. If he feels he needs to support GM by purchasing and bragging about the car, he can do it without a hiccup. So his opinion on this car is really worthless to the average Joe.

The article above goes on to mention "ironically Audi goes on to develop hybrid electrics...". Well, yes, of course. That is what they said back in 2009. They did not completely diss the hybrids, they dissed the Volt because of its OVERPRICED ENTRY POINT and they mentioned that a hybrid electric vehicle needed more development before the technology would become practical and the pricing would have to be appropriate for the class, unlike the Volt.

They could have had their financialists predict that they would sell 50. Would that have made this one of the most successful cars ever? Hell no, this thing is beating it's cheaper/greener competition and that is more then enough.

...except that they didn't. They predicted higher sales and they have not met their targets. That means UNDERPERFORMING. Not to mention the calls for ending production. Read your industry news and facts.

Again, you can't compare a 4 dr sedan (Volt) to a compact electric.

Your and my definitions of failure are clearly different. If my goal was merely to get out of bed every morning, would that mean so far my life has been an amazing success story?

GM could have predicted ten billion volt sales in the first year, would this change anything? All I can see changing is people laughing harder at GM's financial trend advisers.

You seem to think that these teams of forecasters are accurate in their jobs. If it was that easy to predict market movements everybody would be market analysts! lol

Can you tell me one of the promises that isn't achievable in the volt? The 230mpg is achievable and is being met and exceeded by the majority of volt owners. Sure it's not a more accurate mpge like what should have been cited, but for what it is, it's not an incorrect number.

You can go +100mph on electric alone. I believe that's what you would call an EV.

Yes it can, there is a setting.

Shall we say that barring the jealousy, hate, and fear aspects of Nysschen's comments he completely misses the point on what the Volt is about?

Using his logic, how does he explain the $10k+ gap between the Toyota Matrix and the Audi A3 or the $45k+ gap between the Corvette Z06 and the R8? BTW that $45k gap is the cost of a fully loaded Volt.

And trust me, I am the last person to be considered a GM apologist.

simple... Audi makes luxury cars. The Matrix and Corvette are NOT luxury cars. The Audi A3, specially the more expensive diesel version was Green Car of the year and is a MAJOR contributor to Audi sales in the US and leads their models in diesel sales. I don't know anyone cross shopping A3s and Matrixs!

Similarly with the Corvette, this car is a full sports car, period with no aspirations to luxury. These two cars are not cross shopped so I really do not understand what your point is??? The Audi R8 has been selling better than expected for Audi since it was introduced and is one of the most successful in international racing boasting over 100 wins in just a few years! (not to mention multiple Car of the Year, Sports Car of the YEar, etc)

Your argument hardly addresses the issue of overpricing an entry level brand such as the Chevrolet Volt. Audi's are expensive because they are considered LUXURY cars, they come with AWD std and loaded with luxury features and quality. As luxury cars they are selling very well and have been increasing market share consistently since 2006, have surpassed Mercedes Benz in global sales in 2011... so your case for "expensive" Audis is really failed.

Audi, luxury? bahahaha, sure buddy. I'll match your plastic interiors and one up you a keg shaped aluminum shifter knob (ala R8). Audi interiors are bland, gray, and riddled with enough plastic to make fisher price envious.

Limon - you are entitled to your opinion but you'll find you're in the minority on this one.

Yes, Audi LUXURY. Given that Audi interiors are the industry benchmark for ALL SEGMENTS, I take your "plastic" comments as no more than envious remarks. Facts are facts. Sound system speaker setup for Bentley taken after the B&O A8. BMW is also going for the B&O based on the Audi success. BMW and MB command controls were criticized because they were not as user friendly as Audi's. I have a million comparisons where Audi comes on top. This is not my opinion, it is what the industry agrees on. This is also why Chrysler is attempting to copy Audi-first with the city commercial which Audi did years before any rap song came out, then Chrysler TRIES to copy the interior and creates an ugly imitation of front LEDs. Another exmaple is the full front grill that has been copied by half the manufacturers out there, not to mention the front LEDs that were copied by MB (their version is waaaaaay too tacky and overdone-and I loke MB design overall!). Lexus made a blatant copy of the A5 front LEDs too- lame.

Clearly, you choose to ignore industry news and facts. If you think I am wrong, please provide a post describing Audi interiors as cheap plastic!!! ...big talker.

+100 MeanVulcan....

Surprisingly Limon's opinion this time around has a merit. ;) However assuming that there is a luxury aspect behind Audi cars it is a reason why people would pay more money for one (other than not being able to afford a BMW, or a real Lambo ;).

Similarly, there is a luxury aspect behind the Volt that entices people to buy one, though it may not be the same as the typical understanding of luxury. The tragedy of the Volt is that it is branded and associated with Chevy, and although far from being perfect it is not the same as a Chevy Cruise or a Toyota Corolla.

vdiv, if you think BMWs are more expensive than Audis than you clearly do not follow car news very closely. They are comparable at ever level, which makes any minor difference irrelevant to being priced out of a BMW. Really.

Chevy is NOT luxury. There is nothing more to add here. Period. All you can say is that their marketing department should be fired.

Meanvulcan, I've sat in and rode around in a number of audi's. I think it's hilarious that the "luxury" example you came up with is on Audi's most expensive "luxury" car. The only thing that breaks up how bland these vehicles are, are their horrendous throttle setups. By giving you 80% torque at 15% throttle they try to get a sportier image.

Limon - since you insist that Audi interiors are cheap, could you please give us examples of what you consider to be better quality interiors for each of the market segments Audi competes in?

Most Benzes, Some BMW's, and some Caddies, the newer Buicks, there are even a couple Lexi that are still better than Audi. Throughout the model range Audi utilizes components also used in vw's.

Here is an example of some awesome quality plastics in a $114,000 Audi.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/joe_limon/r8quality.jpg

Judging by the boosts/deboosts, I'd say your earlier comment is incorrect, I'm not in the minority.

You cite publications, but shrug off peoples actual opinions from having witnessed these vehicles first hand? You sir are hilarious! Have you even sat in an Audi yourself?

Bahahaha, ok so now your replies make sense. You're simply being defensive about your purchase. There is no way in hell you are going to admit to buying a car based off of other peoples perspectives, yet you will support your decision with the magazine articles.

You can be quiet now, we all know where you're coming from.

Also your reply is hilarious!

"people that actually get paid to do this stuff"

By car companies that post advertisements in their magazines and on their websites. lol

Now you're saying that random people on the internet have a better chance of having a unified agenda, then these publications that get paid by the auto manufacturers?

Think about what you're saying for a second.

Ah yes, but you aren't being presented with "so and so on autospies" you're being presented with a diverse group of people who traditionally disagree about everything with each other uniting and pointing out a common flaw.

Different companies pay different amounts of advertising to each of the mags every year. Why don't you think the same companies always clean up every year? You would think that good designs with continual improvement would constantly stay on top. In otherwords, I don't get the point you are trying to make and how that dismisses my point.

Limon - "Most Benzes, Some BMW's, and some Caddies, the newer Buicks, there are even a couple Lexi that are still better than Audi". This clearly says you can't tell the difference between quality and bling.

pondosinatra

Trust me when i tell you that you are wasting your time.

I once spent hours debating vehicle handling with Joe_Limon, then found out he was basing his opinions on the feedback he got from a VIDEO GAME. I kid you not.

I can bet you my house that the vast majority of commenters on this site have never and will never come in contact with most of the vehicles they comment on, hence why their comments are so far removed from reality or common sense.

This site used to allow people to post up pictures and as such if called out one can go outside take a current picture of their vehicle and post it up to shut others up, that feature is no longer available (I Think) so now everyone is an expert based on internet pictures.

were you the one arguing that a front heavy scirocco won't understeer?

Check this out, apparently vw's heavy hand in audi's part department will only intensify as the company tries to squeeze every nickle out of you.

http://wot.motortrend.com/volkswagen-parts-platform-sharing-to-intensify-across-brands-148649.html

but it's ok vw interiors are rivalling bentley! lol

No Joe. I was the one arguing that Front Driven or Not that VW Sirocco or Golf GTI or any of the myriad of Front Driven Hot Hatches from Europe would dance circles around similarly powered Rear Driven North American Vehicles (Mustang Included).

My argument was that your blanket assumption that all Front Driven Vehicles handled badly because they tended to understeer on your Video Game and in your Physics Theory Classes does not reflect the real life situations where so much technology and attention has been poured into eliminating said understeer.

I know i would happily drive a Sirocco or Megane 250 cup or Golf GTI round a Track or Wet Roads over a Mustang or Camaro or.......... (Fill Blank with any RWD BIG 3 vehicle with similar power)

So you ignore said physics and hard numbers and decide that a 64% front loaded fwd vehicle has neutral handling because...? Magazines say they handle well for what they are? lol, I like your trust in a general "much technology and attention" over real world facts. It's almost like believing in magic. Do you think scientists could make a space shuttle that flies into space by picking up rocks if they poured enough technology and attention to detail in it?

Hundreds? bahaha, you're more delusional then I thought!

Read any forum/new article post and under the comments you'll find many many people who find the "simplistic" styling bland and/or boring.

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=860775
http://www.bmwblog.com/2009/03/16/interior-design-bmw-vs-audi-mercedes-and-porsche/

Are we done? We have isolated that you are clearly defensive about your purchase and are trying to validate it, hence why you believe "paid" advertiser opinions and simply deflect any opinion otherwise as simply fanboy drivel.

Not once have you cared to comment on the economy components put into these vehicles as they are a vw subsidiary. I'm not surprised though, if I could actually change your opinion about Audi's interior quality you probably wouldn't have bought it in the first place after sitting in it and experiencing it yourself.

My cheap ass Impreza interior looks more appealing then your blandsville Audi. That said, at least I can admit to flaws in my vehicle.

Even though you say you aren't, you are clearly getting defensive on the subject. Every opinion that goes against what you say you not only brush off but you insult as well.

http://0.tqn.com/d/cars/1/0/B/U/ag_07a8_int.jpg

look at that will ya! Ignore the materials for a moment and pretend everything had a matte black coat on it, what on earth do you find appealing about that interior design/layout?

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/dynamic_resize/?src=http://www.autonet.ca/Donut/Autonet_ca/search/testdrives/2009/08/28/5_2009_subaru_impreza_wrx265_interior_cockpit.jpg&size=486x365

See, my car may not have as expensive materials put into making it, but at least it has what yours lacks, visual depth, and flowing lines that weren't made with rulers.

On my 2 mile commute to work in Atlanta, I saw 2 Volts on the road. Maybe he's the IDIOT, because Audi JUST recently go act together. Let'e see how long that lasts.

I meant to say "recently got its act together."

did you even read the mentioned article from 2009????

Audi did not diss hybrids or electrics. What they said was that given the current state of hybrid technology (and battery tech) that diesels made far more sense than hybrids. The point and diss of the Volt was due to its irrational (According to Audi) pricing strategy... why pay $40K+ for a hybrid when you can get one (Prius) for much less. Attmepting to price an economy car at luxury entry levels is, in Audi's opinion (and I agree) stupid.

So you say you saw 2 Volts on your "short" drive, so what? what are you proving? I would love to read what you can conclude from this observation!!!

...furthermore, Audi mentioned it would start introducing hybrids of its own when it believed technology was available at the appropriate price level and it provided practical performance.

I've said that from day one!! Only idiots buy not just the Volt, but any car made by the garbage 3.

All I have to say is:

" he's CAN'T be bias, right?"
and
"all your base is belong to us"

and
Spellcheck.

The problem with the Volt isn't so much a pricing or sales issue from what I hear from most dealers locally.

First and foremost, 'Cruzitis' The Cruz is there and even GM admitted most people come to look at the Volt and end up buying the Cruz. The Cruz offers pretty good economy and that seems to be good enough for most

Second is 'Priusitis', people who hate the Prius usually won't buy the Volt as it's a philosophy thing, the thought of a hybrid car in some states is the equivalent of tearing off your Penis. Most Prius buyers buy another Prius.

Third is GM'itis', people don't quite trust GM with that amount of tech inovation. Reliability and dependability are not that often associated to the letters GM. The Volt has been pretty reliable and steady, but news of battery fires in controlled tests will be sure to turn off a few buyers and confirm that it's worth waiting for the PHV Prius and Toyota's prudent release.

I would add to the "GM'itis" the Chevy image and the level of sales and service people receive in a Chevy dealership.

It surprises and disappoints me that people do not see the significance in the evolutionary step that the Volt offers. The Volt is different from the Prius and even the plug-in Prius based on the capabilities of its electric drivetrain and how it was designed to meet everyone's needs by maximizing its use.

It scares me that this opportunity to move onto practical EVs will once again be missed for another 10 years.

angryinch, would that mean most cars aren't practical because they are more expensive than a chevy sonic? lol.

It is practical for an EV from usage perspective, and frankly comparable if not competitive from cost perspective when compared to other EVs. Also notice that I used the terms "evolutionary step" and "opportunity" to describe the Volt as the EVs will continue to evolve. The issue is the pace and the rate of adoption necessary to sustain the process.

Why is the Volt so important? Because it shifts the paradigm of vehicles mostly powered by ICEs to vehicles mostly powered by electricity. Is it inevitable to switch to EVs? IMO yes because they decentralize and diversify the sources of energy and also decrease and shift the polution from the points of using it to the points of generating it where it can be more easily contained.

I am very optimistic about the future of Extended Hybrids, but I think that the card to play is : Better safe than sorry.

GM should have done an extensive marketability research into this car, and if they did ? They should have done 10 more.

In the end, the Volt story could end up sounding like the Edsel story if GM doesn't take the necessary steps to ensure it doesn't

What those steps are, I do not have a clue

The key is exposure. People will not be as frightened once they know more. I was a huge skeptic of the Prius until I got a change to ride in one for two days while house-hunting. I still don't like driving one, but now understand why others do.

I think GM could offer Volts as rentals, as service loaners/demos, and continue their relatively reasonable marketing programs. Maybe hold auto-cross events like the Germans do. They really need to improve the level of customer service at their dealerships and have extended test-drives for curious customers. When I first test-drove the Volt I had to deal with four people, neither of which left me with a good impression and my test drive was 2 minutes around the block -- hardly enough to convince me.

I get your point, but even with no dealer markup, it's an expensive car for a fairly misunderstood technology, maybe what some people have said about the car being launched as an entry level Caddy would have been a better bet

Is obama the socialist fool an idiot for nationalizing GM and giving 40% of it to his communist union pals?

This car would be very impractical for me, If I bought it I would be an idiot,with a family of 5, but for some people with loads of disposable income wants to green wash himself and commutes within the all electric range and has no kids or dogs it would be a great fit.

Well arguably your family would have more than one car, so having a Volt for quick trips or commuting to work in addition to say a minivan that can carry everyone would make sense.

The argument that because the Volt is expensive and therefore doesn't make sense is not very strong considering people are paying that much money and more for other "luxury" or high performance cars that have similar "practical" limits.

Comments like this from a guy that thinks his Audi cars are so special that US dealers don't need to offer assistance to potential customers in the showrooms - "if you want an Audi, you need to beg for it".... Nice strategy!

Not very classy from the head of a car company whose products are way overpriced for what they are.
One could be equally correct to say that people who buy Audis are fools when there are way better performing and handling cars at better price points.
People in glass houses............................

On my second test-drive we took the Volt on an interstate where I drove it at 80 mph for about 4 miles (next exit) without the ICE kicking in. There is no setting other than the battery being sufficiently charged and being easy on the throttle at high speed.

Saying that the Prius (1.4 kWh NiMH, PHV 4.4 kWh Li-ion battery, 60 kW el. motor) and the Volt (16 kWh Li-ion battery, 111 kW el. motor) drivetrains are the same is factually incorrect, biased, and ignorant.

Does the gas engine send power to the wheels on a Prius sometimes? Yes. Does the gas engine send power to the wheels on a Volt sometimes (if not much less often)? Yes.

Yes, and they both have four wheels, five doors, and a radio antenna. Does that mean they are the same?