Is it guaranteed that the new M3 will be faster than the Audi RS4? (It actually might come up short)

The new M3 will have better power to weight ratio, but as you said, Quattro really helps 0-60 acceleration. For example the RS4 is just as fast as the current M5 @ 0-60, but the M5 does win in shear acceleration with its 80 more hp. Like you said it will be close, the next gen M3 will probably match, maybe win by a tenth or so. Also, the current RS4 DOES have good handling and feedback because of the DRC, you should try to get a ride to really see.

Are 0-60 acceleration times, such as a difference of 4.2 to 4.4 seconds really the deciding fator in puchasing a M3 or an RS4?

SixxFive

They aren't really, especially if they are so close. But as Jeremy Clarkson said, "the new M3 will have to come with a free moon to be better than the RS4".

I prefer not to speculate on the performance of the M3 until we have some REAL specs. Until BMW gives a HP figure all we can do is play what if. Right now it is no more than an urban legend and must be treated as such.

With that said, one thing for sure is that the M3 will be a stellar performer. Having driven AWD and RWD in actual track situations, I prefer AWD, but I can see both sides of the equation. RWD hanging the tail out is more fun, but to me is more of a waste to the overall performance equation. No one ever wins a race with backend hanging out, if you think so then look at the pros. When you start getting 300+ HP in this size of car, traction becomes more of an issue. I prefer to get it the power to the ground in the most effective manner, and utilize that in generating forward velocity.

GermanNut has made his choice and for his own reasons. However when the day is done I think the above average driver will be faster in the RS4 due to consistency and predictability. The M3 might be faster in the hands of a pro with hundreds of hours of high speed driving experience. Now how many professional racecar drivers do we have out there?

Both cars are stellar performers and the battle will go on for quite sometime. But for now the RS4 has the upper edge undisputed. So when does the M3 come out in 2007?

it will be a hell of a fight... Audi actually brought in a challenger this time, not the S4...

Jovi

The current S4 has defeated the current M3 in several comparisons. The current RS4 demolished the current M3. Sure, the new M3 will be better than the current S4, and about equal with the current RS4. When the new S4 comes out, it will be very close to the new M3, and of course the next generation RS4 will be better than the upcoming M3.

Jovi - Chewy is right, the S4 is actually slower 0-60 and doesn't corner as good. However as a sum of it parts it is far easier to driver faster. Top Gear had a video proving this and the S4 beat the M3 by quite a bit. The final verdict was the S4 was a better balanced vehicle for the driver to go fast without making mistakes. The M3 requires a higher concentration level and skill to achieve the similar performance. If the driver never makes a mistake then I guess it is faster, however as you know when performing a balancing act you occasionally slip. The S4 is far more forgiving at the limit than the M3.

chewy, sorry, I've never seen a comparison that the S4 beat the M3 in performance...

btw, drivability wise, the M3 is much more kick a$$ than the S4, through experience... M3 is actually slower, but quite equal in feel to the RS4 in responsiveness, again, through personal driving experience...

Jovi....Why does it freakin matter? I mean I love comparing cars against each other, but their comes a time when you have to just listen to things like what Plano said.

The M3 is an excellent car, fabulous. It down right is one of the best performing cars that have been built. But guess what...so is the RS4. When it comes down to it, if you are a wannabe hard core racer type that wants to run your car hard, by the M3 and enjoy it. If you want a little more stability and comfort and OVERALL 'balanced' car, go with the RS4 or S4.

Look at the post about the IS500. That has got to be one of the longest posts on AS that I have seen in a very long time...and there are people actually saying it's becoming boring and mute. In the end you just keep saying the same thing over and over again.

Yea, well, I'm just saying, M3 is better than an S4, and is about pars with RS4...

Jovi

Did I say it beat in performance, I didn't but here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzisa6wcMNU&search=Audi%20S4%20vs.%20BMW%20M3

Do you want a tissue? Can you say owned?

I was originally going to give you this link:

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/6568/the-middleweights-compact-adrenaline-delivery-systems.html

hey, no, but I said it... and no, I do not want a tissue... No one is crying... I could just as easily find a magazine that tests the M3 and S4 and shows M3 winning... ie R&T, MT, C&D, Car, Automobile, Top Gear,... theres a lot...

Jovi

But you just saw with your own eyes that the S4 IS better performing car than the M3. The RS4 demolishes the M3.

I saw that both did well, I did not see where the S4 came out on top... The M3: faster and more agile... Perhaps thats why the S4 was going in a straight line most of the time... like I said, RS4 is faster, but M3 is up to pars... Don't get me wrong, I'm an Audi guy, I have a A4, but the S4 cannot compare to the M3... the RS4 is much more suitable...

what are you rockin around in Chewy?

You sound like an Audi kinda guy...

I am partial to Audis.

Wait for the next Subaru and Mitsu Evo and watch them turn these overrated machines to shame!

KeyserSoze

You get what you pay for.

keysersoze...???

audi needs to bring a RS4 twin turbo version!

The new M3 shouldn't have any problems with the RS4. In fact the M3 CSL which has an I6 is very close to the RS4 right now. The 2001 M3 CSL 0-60 mph is 4.5 seconds. The new 2008 M3 will have even have better power to weight ratio, thus out accelerating and out handling the RS4.

Yeah, the RS4 is a piece of $hit! At $85,000 audi was finally able to match the ferocious M3..haha... So what if BMW decides to build an M3 for the same dollar value?? DO you think it will destroy the Audi???

$85,000 econo box that is AUDI. Give me a break! DO i smell M5 anyday and on weekends? Supercars baby, Audi will never be in that league...

Razzy I partially agree and I'm jumping from the Audi camp over to BMW.

Can't wait!

German Nut you kill me! econo box? You know better than that. I hope you will be a peace with the bimmer, because it will suffer from the same german issues we all deal with. At least one thing is for sure with the current warranty you won't have to pay for squat.

razzy23 - Where is your ferocious M3 right now? You can drop the primadonna attitude, cus for now you are in the weeds without a tow truck to pull you out. The RS4 makes the M3 pale in all respects. Until we see other wise, you will be in denial.

Razzy said it was an econobox. As much as I would like to suport Audi (I do drive one of their cars although this will be my first and also last Audi) look at the bad press the Q7 is getting. Agent 001 just posted an article from the Detroit News Online which gave a very negative review of the Q7.

If Audi is to ever make it to the level of BMW and MB these negative reviews must stop and especially when the bad reviews are regarding the company's flagship Q7 SUV.

Audi, like we have said has a LONG LONG way to go.

I love it when people base their opinions on 'mixed' reports that have come out on a brand-new-never-created vehicle. So a couple of people have said some negative things about it.

It doesn't reflect the entire company and that they have a heck of a long way to go before they get to whatever platform you are putting BMW on.

Mark, that platform would be more sales worldwide than Audi annually. That platform would be creating cars with V6s that can keep up with and beat V8s. The platform would be creating cars that connect to you the road the way a Mercedes fails to. It would be a platform where designs are not boring, but are copied by the company's closest competitors. (i-Drive and that rear end of the 7)

and guess what... in just over one year from now it will be the platform that I'm on. One that I consider higher up than Audi's.

RS4 is in different league ...

yes, the RS4 is in lower league. Im surprised it even sells at such ridiculous price!! (although i havent seen EVEN one on the road yet) My God, what is audi thinking?

GermanNut, before you start to preach to me about "that platform"...go back and check your own previous posts about Audi.

But I'll give you my own. Annual sales mean nothing in quality and being a better car. Toyota has more sales, than BMW, Ford does, GM does......shall I go on?

Connecting with the road? Quattro. Hmm, AWD is overall a better drive to have unless you’re talking about hardcore racing and comparisons. Then I'll give you your RWD. And we're talking about Audi's not MB.

Where does Audi copy from? Now I am asking that, not saying you said that. So what, other companies copied from BMW. It just means they have no design talent and couldn't come up with something original. Guess what, both BMW and Audi have original designs....wouldn't that put them on the same page? Whether your opinion is that Audi has boring and lame interiors isn't really carrying any weight. Originality is the key to success and you yourself said that there have never really been any negative/complaints about Audi's interior. Now as for BMW having bad interiors, well...we can just scroll through just some old articles here on AS for a start.

So your leaving Audi for BMW....okay, have fun on that side. I'll keep my 'in the middle' position.

razzy23

Check your facts, the RS4 starts at 66k and tops out at 73k. You can say that the M3 is also an econo box.

bull$shit, the RS4 does not top out at 73k. Car and Driver tested an 85k model. Better check your facts. M3 is a legend. it's in a league of its own. Dont say commments like that in here, you will get eaten alive.

razzy23

Sorry, there is no way how you can option the RS4 up to 85 k.

http://autos.msn.com/research/autopricer/tool.aspx?ModelID=12071&Model=RS%204&TrimID=102647&Trim=Sedan&Make=Audi&Cat=Luxury&Year=2007&UTN=0

73,870 is all that is possible (without 750$ special paint)

razzy23, here's an idea...why don't you go to the Audi site and build one. That will give you true MSRP. And make sure you choose the 'Sprint Blue Pearl' for the color since that's the one color with an extra price.

Put every option on there and tell us what you came out with.

chewy, your obviously dealing with someone who believes all that he reads.

All i gotta say is BMW claims the new M3 coupe, will be faster than the M5.

Lets wait for the new M3 but till then shut up.

Ya'll just love to ride BMW's d*** I read somewhere that the new M3 is gonna have a 415BHP engine and as we all know the RS4 is rocking a 420BHP. I'm staying in the Audi camp dudes, that car is plain vicious.

Sounds like jovi needs to actually check out the comparison tests before posting. The S4 was chosen over the M3 in Car and Driver as well as lapping faster on TopGear...I drove them back to back several times before buying the S4...the M3's faster if you get the revs high enough, but lacks the torque for drivability, who wants to downshift 3 gears to pass? The M3 interior has a cheap look and feel compared to the Audi, the Audi is more solid, has usable back seats, and is a true year round performer. The M3 is a better car to compare to the Corvette or an S2000 than the S4(rear drive, limited use cars, similar build quality and materials) the S4 is just a lot more car. The RS4 is actually only a little more expensive than the current M3, anyone want to speculate what the new M3 will cost? (since BMW seems to now be trying to price themselves higher than all their competitors...)

Oh and M3's are a dime a dozen due to the incredibly long product cycle, my S4 was only produced for two years with the B6 body style...As far as which is more fun, try mountain roads full of 2nd gear turns and see what AWD and a V-8 can do, it's can be fun rocketing off corners with usable HP...

What's with all this animosity? Both are great cars. RS4 is a better performer than the current M3, no doubt. It should be for $73,000. The S4 doesn't offer quite the feedback and ride/handling mix, but it does offer 4 doors, choice of an auto tranny, and inclement weather superiority.
Nobody knows yet what the new M3 brings, other than better low-end torque with the V-8. All of these cars are amazing performers, and each shines in its own way. Competion is good for everyone.

I always said this...if you want a car for the weekend at the track...get the M3; if you want a car for everyday use that can go very fast and still be in total luxury, get the S4.
The RS4 will top out at $73k and not $85k like the rumors speculated a long time ago....
Keep in mind that most likely the new M3 will be heavier than the current one, but it will have one hell of a power to weight ratio still.
Do you think that BMW will make a car that is faster than the M5 for less??? (Keep in mind that the new M3 will also come as a sedan)
I don't think so.
All of you bashing the RS4...you need to drive one.
It will impress the hell out of you...
It's solid, incredibly fast and it keeps going when you think it should not; the brakes are incredible with no fade after a few laps at the track.
I aboslutely love the S4 as it is, but the RS4 makes it...well....almost weak next to it.
The RS4 is THAT much better than the S4 and the current M3.
The new M3 will be just phenomenal, no doubt, but I do think that for the first time, BMW will have their hands full with the RS4 and the performance of the new M3 will not be that much better than the RS4.
The RS4 is THAT good!

If you saw the Top Gear video, the M3 beats the S4 by 2 car lengths or so in a straight line sprint on dry pavement. The S4, however, beats the M3 around their test track by over 1 second (also dry pavement).

The perception that the M3 just blows the doors off the S4 is just not true.

Audi and BMW play leapfrog with each other, and the RS4 leaps ahead of the current M3. The original poster of this thread thinks the new M3 might come up short. It's hard to imagine that BMW would not at least match the RS4. But like the guy from Top Gear said, the M3 will have to be one hell of a car to just _match_ the RS4 in performance, let alone be better.

BMW DESIGNS ARE THE BEST: STRIKING, FUTURISTIC, FASHIONABLE, YOUNG MINDED, SPORTY!

You know, all you people who are complaining about BMW's recent design is just jealous of them! BMW is the no.1 luxury car brand in the world and the 3, 5, 7 sold the most cars in its market segment in 2005 worldwide, beating Merc and Audi BY FAR!

So this simply says it, BMW's design is the way the people want it, togather with reliable first class innovation, quality and character, it can be nothing but the choice of sensible and educated buyers! The new 3 Series design is a work of art, look at the sharp front and muscular side, what car in the world can match that??? It is something potent, first and striking. It stands out from the normal cars like Merc and Audi!

That's why BMW's 3 is World car of the year and top 3 for World car design of the year! If you want to moan, why not try the ugly CLS, look what Sh1t it looks like: ugly headlights with an overcurved shoulderline (looks like it has been crashed from front and rear), ugly rear lights, too! Shame, what a piece of TRASH! The other one is the new S class - headlights so dull and fogged, can't they ever come up with something orginal and exciting?

I suppose because they appeal to the almost dead old population, who still think that Merc is a respected brand! I don't even want to get to the snoek fish degin of the Audi grille and the crying taillights of the A4, the sales show! By the way, why did Merc copy the iDrive, bootlid and interior design of the 7 if it was so ugly to some antiBMW people? Bangle is King and he should stay! BMW is not BMW without his works of art! Too bad for those who do not like it, you must then close your eyes, but the majority of thsi world loves it and that's what matters. We cannot help it that you lack taste!

LWKH - Stop copying and pasting your same ramble on different posts. Have some originality like your "tastefull" BMWs.