EXCLUSIVE RUMOR: The Key Feature Lexus Will Use On Its Next IS-F To Trump The Next BMW M3

"And the reason it's so heated is that if you win THAT space it changes the whole perception of your brand and validates you being the BEST."

I don't think that is the case. I truly believe it is hotly contested because it is the most profitable segment and is easily the biggest volume segment for most everyone who competes in it, so I believe that is the reason it is the most hotly contested segment...

I've said it in the past that a hybrid system might replace a small turbo, to give some extra power and very little fuel saving. However the problem is that the hybrid cars are extremely overpriced!

As for the IS-F, adding more weight related to the batteries to the existing car is completely a horrible decision, and if this is Lexus' plan to de-thrown the M3, then I'm sorry for them. This simply means that they have no ability to win over the M3, but they'll use the mombo jombo hybrid talk as an "ATTEMPT" to do so.

To beat a competitor in this segment they need to visit the GT-R team and learn from them how they won over the 911.

Although hybrid adds weight, it allows change of weight distribution for better handling/braking. It's then just a matter of how to reduce weight, and how much to spend to make that happen.

And don't think that Lexus won't use a smaller FI engine to start with, although I don't like that soul-less linearity.

Enough already!!!! Wasn't the current IS-F supposed to trump the BMW M3? How long has Lexus been claiming to have something to beat BMW? Wake me up when they actually deliver

That 335 incident was in 2007. Problems have long since been resolved. And bringing up a low-point about the BMW 335 doesn’t make the Lexus IS any better. You ever heard the saying? "Don’t chop off someone else’s legs to make yourself look taller"

And the IS350 beating a BMW 5-series? When anyone other than an American comes to that conclusion, then it will be credible.

Are you saying that as a brand, Lexus vehicles are better than BMW? Because that level of crazy can only exist in an American mind.

it's been 20 years already....and they're still 'going to...."

"the biggest luxury sales market on the planet, than yes."

- You're funny. Also completely wrong. Or are you talking about the planet of America?

it's been 20 years already....and they're still 'going to...."

- Exactly.

Pondosinatra... I'm not sure if you are aware of this... but America is not the only place in the world where luxury items sell...

What about the rest of the planet? How does Lexus compare in sales anywhere other than America? Please answer. And why do you ignore the rest of the planet?

Is America the only place of importance in the world? BMW, Mercedes Benz, and even Audi sells more cars worldwide than Lexus. But you chose to ignore that FACT time after time because you are living in your American Bubble. A place where only America matters. And you wonder why the rest of the planet hates americans? Its because of people like you who refuse to acknowledge that they're other areas of importance other than America. You need to get out more.

Earth to pondosinatra!!!! America isn't the only place of significance on planet earth. For some reason some Americans (pondosinatra) find that FACT impossible to comprehend. Only Americans are stupid enough to think that Lexus is a better brand than BMW and Mercedes Benz.

You're still ignoring the rest of the planet. LOL!! You are hopeless. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that they're other areas of importance other than America? Please answer.

You keep coming back with "America, America, America". I'm not asking about that. What about the rest of the planet? Do they not count? Answer that question please.

Just because something is #1, doesn't mean that the #2, #3 (and so on) are insignificant. Sometimes the #2, #3 combined can outweigh the #1 (which is the case here in global sales).

For some reason you're dead brain thinks that being # 1 at something means that it’s the only game in town.

"How long have they sold vehicles in Europe? China? India? That would be less than 11 years.

Exactly, you clown."

- Wrong again dude.

"n 1990, during its first full year of sales, Lexus sold 63,594 LS 400 and ES 250 sedans in the U.S.,[42] the vast majority being the LS model.[42] That year, Lexus also began limited exports to the United Kingdom, Switzerland, Canada, and Australia."

- That's 22 years. But in your crazy fanboy mind 1990-2012 equals 11 years. LOL!!!

"You must've missed the glaring word "LIMITED"!!! Your whole argument is that in the rest of the world they get trounced, but seem to gloss over the FACTS that they have nowhere near the exposure as BMW, Benz and Audi not to mention just recently started selling on a full scale over the past decade."

- Excuses, Excuses


"Again, if Lexus ONLY outsold them because they were cheaper and Americans are as you state "stupid", try clearly explaining why neither Acura nor Infiniti outsold them, let alone why the 3-series, 5-series, E-class and S-class sold the most in the US...over Lexus. I mean, now those same stupid Americans...aren't stupid when it helps your argument moron?"

- Americans are stupid no matter what car they choose.

"No..I'm..NOT. I stated "biggest luxury sales market on the planet". Until you can point out that the US is NOT that, shut your cakehole Chrissy, because it is factually correct."


- You are ignoring the rest of the planet. Note how you are still only talking about America in reference to the rest of the planet. It's like there's America for you, and then there's the rest of the planet. I'm tired of exposing you. Typical self-centered American. LOL!! Enjoy. The rest of the planet hates you.

What a headline - should have been EXCLUSIVE Conjecture! What is exclusive about conjecture or rumor? Ridiculous.

I don't think they'll be able to pull it off. They could outperform and outmileage an M3 but I think the BMW name will give it an automatic win in comparisons.

In this segment, the two things that matter most are Drive characteristics and Street Credibility. Both things that the C63 and the M3 have over the Lexus.

Adding a hybrid system is only going to convince Five to ten percent of those looking to buy a GS to consider the smaller Lexus IS-F.

Lexus has been trying to trump German brands since 1989...and never succeeded.

oh, so supercars have to be reliable to be considered supercars. I did not know that. I am guessing Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. don't know that either. It's an interesting philosophy, since that eliminates pretty much every single supercar in the history of supercars.

Anyhoo, as for the Z8, whether it was a "supercar" or not, it sure sounds like it was a pretty "super car":

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0005_2000_bmw_z8/viewall.html

"When we can get a Z8 to our handling course, we predict it could post a 1.0g lateral acceleration figure on the skidpad. This car tracks through corners as if it were made of a single ingot of billet aluminum"

Yeah, sounds like the Z8 handled horribly all right.

"Do the math and you'll learn it takes only 14.5 seconds to run the famous 0-100-0 test, placing it fifth on our list of cars we've tested in this way-behind a McLaren F1 LM (11.5 seconds), the Dodge Viper GTS and Porsche 911 Turbo S (both 13.7 seconds), and a Ferrari 550 Maranello (13.9 seconds). These are the Z8's supercar peers, the pack with which it hunts lesser, mere sports cars. To be sure, we'll have the BMW Z8 on the roster for our annual supercar shoot-out scheduled for later this year... Suffice to say that we're all witnessing the birth of an automotive legend. As with the Cobra 427, we'll all remember the first time we saw a Z8, the first time we heard one, and, along with a privileged few, the first time we drove one."

Again, sounds pretty super to me. But hey, to each his or her own. You may now resume your bashing of all things BMW for no reason other than that they are BMW. Please, proceed.

pondosinatra... you sound very shallow... "And a $120k BMW does NOT make it supercar status"... according to this logic, cars under 120K are not supercars? GT-R? ZR1? GT500? oh, but I guess you are picking and choosing your battles using LF-A vs. Z8 (a vehicle out of production for nearly a decade)

The point about the LF-A was that BMW hasn't had anything remotely close in the past decade...nada."

- BMW had an F1 car that won races. Toyota's F1 car didn't win crap.

I cannot believe that someone is attempting to make the case that Toyota builds better cars than BMW. Only a dumb American will attempt to make that argument.

BMW doesn't have a player in that market (LF-A). Stop comparing apples to oranges. As for the GS350 bettering the 5-series? Why don't we all just rely on one person's opinion and make that fact? That's what you're doing. It's called reaching.

But since your comparing apples and oranges, does the GS350 better the BMW 550i? What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW 550i?

While were at it, lets compare competing models:
What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW 3-series?
What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW X5?
What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW M3?
What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW M5?
What competing Lexus Model can beat out the BMW M6?
What competing Lexus Model can beat out the BMW Z4?
What competing Lexus Model can beat out the BMW 650i?
Should I go on?

What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW 3-series?
What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW X5?
What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW M3?
What competing Lexus model can beat out the BMW M5?
What competing Lexus Model can beat out the BMW M6?
What competing Lexus Model can beat out the BMW Z4?
What competing Lexus Model can beat out the BMW 650i?

Answer that ^^ or shut up.

For those of you who bitch and moan. FYI, there was comparison between the 2012-2013 Lexus IS-F vs BMW M3 the reviewers said the Lexus IS-F is just as good or better than the BMW M3. Just google it.

If you paid me enough, I would say the same things as well even if it wasnt true.

"BMW M3 the reviewers said the Lexus IS-F is just as good or better than the BMW M3. Just google it."

- So why isn't that reflected in sales numbers? Since sales numbers mean everything to you guys, the M3 outsells the IS-F by such a large margin that it isn't even funny.

So the IS-F outsells the M3? Is that what you are saying? Lexus doesn't break down IS-F sales. But only a fool like you would use that to imply that the IS-F outsells the M3.

"Again, this is why everyone deboosts you, you are an idiot plain and simple."

- And you've never been deboosted?

"Not to the level and consistency as yourself, let alone getting called out as much as you by other members."

- You got called in the other thread by 2 other members. Another member called you an "Idoit". hypocritcal much? You get called out all the time over your stupidity.


"The ones that slam me are the anti-Lexus and pro-BMW posters, ironic considering I went from a Lexus to a BMW."

- You're a BMW basher. That's why you get slammed and called an "Idiot" (among several other reasons).

I hope they do, or come close to it... competition is always good for the consumer!

When all is said and done, BMW will always have the loyal following of their M3 that Lexus will never have from the IS-F. Call them blind, call them bias, call them badgewhores, call them whatever, but BMW has turned the M3 (and 3 series in general) into a cult, not just a car made to steal market share and boost the brand.

With that said, it doesn't matter if Lexus puts the V10 of the LF-A into the IS-F, people who will buy an M3 will buy an M3 and they will always say their is something wrong with the Lexus.

On the other hand, I do believe that most people to buys an IS-F makes the decision to buy because its an M3 alternative, whereas an M3 buyer will never call the M3 an IS-F alternative...

FYI---70% of luxury cars are LEASES. and guess what...somebody BUYS all those cars when they are 3 years old. what's your point?

it's been going to trump the 3-series for 20 years. still hasn't happened. so let's not expect too much the 5th time around.

The problem with the IS-F is that it looks like a boring Lexless.

Really, it lacks character, machismo, presence, stance and vibe.
All that the M3 has the IS-F is deficient in.