Is the new Lexus ES350 a better car than the Acura RL for $15k less? We say YES!

Not exactly. The Acura does have all wheel drive, more power. The two are in different segments, or at least Acura want the RL to belong in the upscale sedan class (Audi A6, BMW 5 series, Cadilla STS, Infinity M, Jaguar S Type, Lexus GS, MB E class) As you said the RL hasn't done too well in that particular class. The ES350 actually looks really good (the IS does too) Not sure how it drives. The previous ES was basically a Camry rebadge (only slightly ahead of GM style rebadge, think Audi A3/VW GTI) I am not sure if the ES shares Camry bits.

DMX1,

Yes, I am the founder of AutoSpies.com

001

Actually, I would agree with everything everyone says, except for the looks part... I like the RL's looks over the Lexus's looks...

001, after cruising this site for a couple years now, I'm thinking you don't like the RL so much....
But I have to agree. The ES350 blows the RL out of the water... but I bet if you go to a dealership you get heavy (Read 10K, I would bet) discounts on the RL and pulling teeth is required to get a dime below MSRP on the ES.
As refined as the ES is, I'd like to Lexus grow some gonads. The ES is soft and cushy. They could expand their appeal considerably(for people like me) if they even pretended to have a smidgeon of sport in the ES.

Acura has never been able to compete at the Lexus price range of 40K+. However, for how small Honda is they are certainly among the most innovative; and for the most part they "get it," sans the RL. Acura at the TL price range has the mixture of luxury and attitude that Lexus could take some notes on... 6-Speed manual? A REAL manumatic? Not even close on the ES... not even on the IS.

DMX1

I drive a VAG product (Volkswagen Automotive Group) I try my best to be on top of new cars and stuff like that.

I have tested the RL, and well this car is TOO heavy and not "Fun" to drive, but feature a LOT of Cool security Stuff, and the SH-AWD is very impressive.

I have had two Lexus ES's. True a person could buy a Camry cheaper or a Kia even cheaper or a Vespa cheaper yet or a Schwinn even cheaper and I saw some Nikes on sale in the mall! It all depends on what a person wants. There is no comparison between the ES and a Camary in overall ownership satisfaction. Now there are two issues; 1) Is that the leases on an ES are as high as a $60k Mercedes and 2) No AVS is offered this year. Not having the AVS will steer me toward a CTS or MB or Infinity this time. My wife likes the more compliant ride but I like it firmer which the AVS accomodated until this year. So for the first time in five years I will likely not buy a Lexus in February even though I like the new ES very much. Addition of the AVS option would swing it for me.

There is no way you can compare the Lexus ES to the Acura RL. The Lexus is way out of his league. Have any of you ever test drove the RL. It sales numbers to that vehicle no justice at all.

The Lexus ES is a upgraded Camry. The question that should be asked is "if" it can rival the Acura TL. These are two different classes.

KaiserSoze,

I've driven them both extensively and the ES is by far the better driver in my opinion...much lighter and more nimble.

I have no problem with the engine power of the RL.

I am totally convinced that anyone who is critical of the new ES has yet to drive it or even sit inside it.

And it's definitely NOT a glorified Camry.

Just like an Avalon is not a budget LS.

Go drive it and you will see.

The new ES is nothing less than the original LS400, modernized, refined and even better than the original article, for the same price of the original LS.

001

Both cars are ok but not worthly spending money on. I would choose neither.

to sell a luxury car at that price
u must have the image of heritage to sell

the customers are either want
V8 -> caddy
german -> MB BMW Audi
go cheap and want big car -> which RL has neither

lexus has the brand image ,acura never dose, it can only complete with M35x , at least at the moment , even M can equip a V8

if ES350 has AWD , no question RL is not gonna win.

What is the purpose of this article except RL bashing by Agent001???

JeffLA - most posters here are pro-BMW & MB and anti-everything else.

Yes

Yes

Thanks courtstone, I have picked up on that.

I'd have to agree with chewy and mromar here.

- Also, I went to the dealership with my wife to look at the new IS350 about a month ago and sticker prices for the ES350 (from what I saw)were in the low to mid 40's (I assume with addition of package, etc.). Note that the Acura comes loaded and ready to go at 48K. In the real world, the 15K difference seems a bit large here.

And yes, I agree with most of your sentiments, the RL is both a better driver's car and performing car than the ES350. They are both in different classes, and yes, I do think the Acura TL (33K loaded, 35K with navi) is a better car than the ES350.

I agree, buy Lexus instead of the Acura RL, but consider the Acura TL as well. The RL is not made to fight against the heavyweights in the Large Luxury segment, where is the V-8 (yes it is needed, no matter how much Honda or Acura say it isn't). But if you really want to spend the 50k check out the others too.

One more thing, it may be up to your tastes though, but the RL just may not be worth the 50k, remember the RL cost 15k more than the ES. So it is pretty much bang for the buck here.

001, you really didn't do your homework. A 15K difference in price makes for a good headline, but when equipped as closely as can be accomplished (obviously, one cannot order anything close to the steering or chasis of the RL), the difference is more like 8K. But as others have said the real comparison is with the TL--now the prices are equivalent, but the suspensions are not!

and why do you guys think that Acura is thinking of getting rid of the 6 cyl version of this car and making it an 8 cyl? A $50k 6cyl Acura doesnt sell. the numbers speak for themselves. Too big of a gap between the Acura Tl and the RL. The Lexus will always sell the ES350, have a pretty large market share. I like the Lexus ES350.

I've driven both the RL & ES350.... Living in the North east I'd take a Demo RL over the ES all day long.

Many things that are said about the RL here apply to the 6-cyl. Lexus GS as well. It's more expensive, has less room inside than the ES, etc. But they are (obviously) not in the same category. And neither are the RL and the ES.

It is true that Acura has not yet been successful at selling a $50K+ car, but to compare the RL with an upscale Camry is not fair.

ES is not a rebadged Camry. Last gen wasn't. Current gen isn't.

I owned last gen ES. No one saying this has owned one, I'm sure.

The new ES is based on the Avalon platform. But of course, you'll keep hearing how it's a rebadged Camry.

99% of people who talk about Lexus are ignorant. But that doesn't stop them from chiming in. Why is that?

Well,are you employed by Toyota/Lexus?The idea of comparing ES350/upscale camry with the RL is insane.The
ES350 is engineeringly inferior to the TL

Ricemaster, come on a better car will sell. People will buy the better car, but maybe the RL is not convincing the buyers that it is a better car. Now about RL blowing away the competition, namely GS, 5 series, A6, and the E-class, the RL is supposed to be the flagship vehicle in the Acura lineup. So the RL is supposed to compete with the LS, 7 series, A8, and the S-class. However it can't because to play in the big leagues you need a big engine, a V-8. So comparing the RL to the GS, 5 series, etc is unfair and wrong in terms of place in the model lineup. It is like comparing a Corolla to a Accord (Well not exactly).

The RL is a sales disaster but still a solid (if someone numb) performer based on my test drive. An ES350 is not really comparable. Toyota/Lexus still need to go back to the drawing board on suspensions. Body roll and road feel are still lacking in nearly every vehicle they make...even a new V6 Sonata when shod with 17" wheels feels like a Mini Cooper compared to a new Camry (have not yet driven the new ES but had to assume Camry SE suspension compliance at best)...It is very overpriced IMO...The TL is a far best entry-level value and the TSX, even more so (admittedly the TSX is a not a direct competitor).

I think that Toyota is purposefully making their vehicles soft as their are trying to build a luxury car not a combo luxury/sport car. They can build more sporty cars, and I think that they should, but they are not doing it. Toyota needs to make their cars sportier, because this is what luxury cars are now and have been for a while.

A Lexus "drives" like a Lexus. That's why those of us that drive a Lexus, love our Lexus. Enough already guys. If you don't like how a Lexus drives than go drive something else! End of story! And these comments about how Lexus is just a dressed up Toyota, I'll guarantee are coming from those who don't own a Lexus, much less ever driven one. They just like being on that "Anti-Lexus" bandwagon.

Kart1, I am confused why you think the RL is designed to be competition for the A8, 7, S Class and LS. Are you thinking because the RL is the top Acura sedan it has to go up against everyone else's flagship sedans? If so, there is a huge price different between the RL and the others and Acura hasn't marketed a V8 yet. Maybe Acura just has purposely not entered that market (yet)? The RL is priced and competes better with the A6, 5, E Class and GS, which it is designed to do.

I just picked up a New 06 RL for $41,400 not to mention the 4.9% finance for 60 months deal. I priced up a 07 ES350 with the feautures that the Rl has and came up to $41,670 MSRP. Figure a 1000 off maxx. Thats basiclly the same price. So when consedring the RL discounts they are giving it becomes a much better value. PLuss the RL has AWD and better handeling. Granted the Es350 looks stunning. and the es350 is much faster because its alot lighter then the RL. BUt then again i think there two different cars.

Your RL will be worth 25 a year from now and the ES will 33...so how much did you really save?

001

are you crazy. This is not a caddilac. You really think that the rl is going to be worth $25,000 in a year from now? No doubt the lexus has the best resale but acura has pretty good resale too. The Tl has amazing resale value.