U.S. Lexus IS vs BMW 3-Series sales. How do they stand?

I know you want to post this as a way of getting a dig at Lexus for still not selling as many as BMW, but remember Lexus has 2 entry level sedans. Combine the 2 and you're getting a more accurate reflection of Lexus' success in this market segment.

1970toyotamarc- Actually you are about 180 degrees off. I think BMW is the one that needs to worry. I am not a Lexus fan, but I do report good things about them because I would rather see a better balance. So I guess stop looking for an angle and just read the news. Not everything is a slam against you.

It refers to the US alone, world sales of the 3 series is/will be much greater than the IS in any respect. Thats what counts when it comes down to it.

Plano what happened, your name is gone? I like the styling of the IS a lot, it looks really good. Styling wise I would put it above the 3 series.

I hate idiotic biased articles. Nearly 1000% increase? Well the idiot that wrote the article did not add in the IS 200. Of course when you compare 2 cars being sold to just one car that was sold the numbers would be higher. Anyways the new IS is way better then the last model (minus no manual for 350???), but when it comes to sales BMW is in the lead. Of course if Lexus continues in this pace it may outsell BMW in the States. Then again kinda lame to compare a new BMW to the aging IS (pre-new model).

These are US sales. There is not an IS200 in the US.

simple math... if I sold 1 car in 1 month in 2005, and sold 1,000 a year afterwards, thats 1000%, but thats still not impressive. I believe in 2004/5, the IS sales were horrible... just because they have a o

sorry, I submitted by accident...

just because they sold a little bit cars in one year and sell more in another doesnt make it successful...

Since the new Lexus came out I swear I have only seen about 6

There are 14 people who own the 2006 BMW 3 Series sedan and one that owns the first generation IS

IMO, the IS is more of a C-Class rival, not 3-Series. Ok, I've said enough...

chewy- I'm back! Looks like I "accidentally" got banned and couldn't log in. All is better now.

Huu76- I posted this in support of the Lexus boys. While I am not in their camp, I do see the need to post on all sides of the issues and this was an interesting article.

the new ES looks like crap.
and who would buy the IS when the 3 series and a4 drive and look better both inside and out.

i havent seen much of the new IS and havent seen the new ES at all.

oh yeah. lexus is a chick car.

huu76, I see more "Fobs" driving the IS and mostly rich trust fund girls driving a 3 Series.

Personal preference though I'd take the new IS over the 3 Series anyday.

huu76, corners at 120 is not bad... try it some times... btw, BMW beats the IS in speed... why do people compare the IS350 to the 330i? it should be compared to the M3 no? its 50 hp away from the 330i, while only 27 hp away from the M3. But no, the Lexus people have to compare it to something that is less power... and yes, when the IS500 or what ever comes out, the new M3 will come out, and that will be more in class...

I'm not talkin highway corners... btw, $$ has nothing to do with car classes... those who use $$ as excuses are dumb... you think people care if a RR is 328K+ and Maybach is 369K+? money is an excuse for people to get the cheaper crap...

btw, E36 M3 4 door does comparable performance with 240 hp...

What the Lexus LS did more than a decade ago to the luxury segment, the IS is clearly poised to do to the sporty 4 door small/medium size segment. With the anticipated arrival of the coupe, the convertible and the IS500 the IS will appeal to an even broader segment of the buying public and its sales are sure to continue to rise at a significant rate.

There will always be those who prefer the MB and the BMW over the LS and the same is true for the IS segment but the pie is about to be cut differently every year from here on and an ever increasing segment is going to Lexus.

Competition is good for the enthusiast in every way and we should be glad to have so much variety to pick from. vive la difference

Huu...

BMW and Mercs and Audis don't say that... its Lexus who talks of price... German cars say is that if you don't want to shell out some money, than fine, go with the cheaper stuff... I mean, if a Pentax digital Camera is 8.0 MP v. a SONY 8.0 MP N1 digital, if you don't want to shell the money out for a SONY, then buy the Pentax...

huu,

Actually, no. I don't see where you are getting your info from, because the only car that Lexus' base is higher than MB or BMW is the GS300 v. 525i, which the GS300 is equivalent to the 530i, which has a higher base price than a GS300... Otherwise, Lexus is cheaper in price. Now price them out... theres not a single Lexus more expensive than a BMW or MB in its respectible class and trim...

But persay, if you were right, which you are clearly not, then why would you say that comment about BMWs using $$$ as an excuse when they never...

It sounds to me that all you BMW guys are all a little bunch of butt hurt idiots. I feel sorry for your mothers!

Lexus FTW!!!!!!!!!!!

Jovi,

Your the man!

huu,

you're canadian prices are a rip off, US market prices are a lot different... all your BMW prices (US) are $8K cheaper, Lexus prices are $10K cheaper...

Ever notice that the manufacture's performance times are always conservative for the Germans, and always right on spec for the Japs and Americans? Thats because Japs and Americans put performance numbers. German cars put numbers for everyday driving, ie not track numbers, like Japs and Americans...

Second, what the hell are you talking about? 5.2 sec close to the M5? WOW! Your BMWs in Canada must be defective... Last I saw, M5 does conservatively 4.2 (btw 0-60 is not everything) what are you smokin?

So your logic is that the 911S is actually close in performance to the Enzo (3.9s to 60 v. 3.2s to 60) Hell, 911S is almost as fast as the Bugatti Veyron!...

Lemme guess, the 316d (0-60 in 8.2) is not far from the IS250 (0-60 in 7.9)... wow!

Where are those figure from? Honestly?

Anyways, this article is about how sales stands... so how do they stand? YTD, Monthly, US sales, Worldwide Sales, NA sales, Sedan sales...

One answer of whose on top...

BMW 3er

When I said where are those figures from, I meant performance, dummy. Perhaps Canada doesnt get Car and driver or Road and Track, which M5 goes 0-60 in 4.1.

That makes it a 1.2 sec difference... thats a Mclaren SLR (3.7) vs. Bugatti (2.5)...

Traditionally, Canadian $$$ is 75%, but now, its 89% (market price). Actually, I don't think you have ever heard of it... Keep up to date buddy...

btw, Lexus profit = $870 Million (US) do you need me to convert that for you? BMW's is $2.7 Billion (US) need conversion on that too?

thats 976 million Canadian $$$ v. 3.03 BILLION Canadian $$$...

Or is Canadian $$$ rates more for Lexus than it is for BMWs?

HUU,

I'll be happy to give you a lesson on Currency Hedging and Investments if you need...

I do it for a living, I don't mind teaching you...

actually, its not R, its RMB, and yes, I do. Actually, its not a good time to get into RMBs because market prices are dropping. Also, the price to invest in RMB for getting into the Chinese market is more than currency prices. Bet you didnt know that huh? Before I get off on a tangent, just want you to know that market prices on currencies do fluctuate over time. to say 75% over the past 20 years is also wrong. Its not a spike. 3 years is not a spike. if you know market prices, its been steadily climbing.

Anyways, funny, so what was your other point. Toyota sells about 6 times the car BMW sells, but profit is only 4 times. so whats your point. my point is that BMW v. Lexus profits, BMW is more.

Heres one for you. give me a site with the best IS numbers. 5.2. best m5 numbers 4.1. why am I even trying to justify M5 v. IS? thats just stupid.

But yes, I am a financier. I'm in investment Banking and currency Hedging, like I said.

What numbers do you want me to prove you wrong on?

I agree that the M5 is def. not in the GS class... M5 is light years ahead.

Btw, the Renmimbis are market currencies, though not fully floating. 40% consists of market values against the big 4 currencies. and the only reason that ignorant people believe that the level of the RMB should be about 3-1 to 5-1 is that the loans that the chinese banks are giving out are being written off as operational costs, while they are loans that are not really going to be paid off, its just money to invest into the economic infrastructure. And there are limited barriers to FDIs in China, because of the resistance to shock and awe economic conversion. You know little about China, so lets not go there, and theres nothing to do with China in this posting, except that BMW sales are higher than Lexus sales in China (since it is talking about sales)

But lets not go too far with currencies. M5 is consistantly at low 4sec. If you read articles carefully, they will constantly state that 4.7 is manufacture's claim. they never test them out.

You still have not given me an answer on what numbers you want me to prove you wrong on...

But lets not get off topic... 3er sales are still better than IS sales. PERIOD. 5er sales are better than GS sales. PERIOD. 6er sales are better than SC sales (if they are in the same class). PERIOD. 7er sales are better than LS sales. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!

When IS sales are better than BMW 3er sales, then we'll talk, and I'll admit that IS sales are better than 3er sales. Until then. 3er is better. PERIOD!!!

I'll respond later... I'm a little busy, but I will respond... ha ha

huu, sorry, theres no point to arguing with a person who will not admit wrongness in any which way, and will beat around the bush

btw, I don't see anything wrong with sales 5-1 going down to 3-1. Congrats IS, but 3er sales are not down. thats my point.

About china, US has this thing about not paying debts, so yes, under normal market the currencies would go up, but with debt, and lack of circulating currency, no, currency remains, and more is produced, thus, the rate of inflation goes up, thus value declines. Thus, it is a bad time for investing in RMB, or CNY.

I never discredit your factory numbers, because they are what they are. I just asked what you were smoking, comparing M5's numbers in there, and to let you know that 4.7 sec to 60 is not realistic for M5.

Its ok, you run 100 test, get 4.1-4.2 and get 1 bad shift, they will abort the run, and not count it. Even if they do, and get a 4.7, the margin of error of 1 blown test in 100 is small. The deviation will likely be noted. In case you would like to know how those things work.

Anyways, if you wanted me to respond, here you go...

1. I don't do street races (those are not races)

2. When the RMB floats in the market completely, which it is floating now, but not completely, the greenback will not drop. you do not sound like you know much. The rates of the RMB will drop, if you know anything. Then, the EU banks and Japanese banks will then buy the RMB, which will cause the value to incline. But only once it starts to float, and once the value drops for the foreign banks to purchase its currencies, and only then, will it become a good time to purchase the RMB.

3. It can climb at a faster rate but the point is if it shows it can go faster, it doesnt mean that it will catch up. you could have $1, $2, and then $4, and then $8. You have gone up by 100% each time. but if you have $1000, $1500, $2250, $3425, etc, you only go up by 50%, but when your 100% goes flat, then it doesnt matter, the 50% rate is still yielding more...

BTW, greenbacks are dropping right now. I don't know what market you have been looking at. But actually, I don't care about hypotheticals that will probably not happen. I care about things that are going on and trends for the near future, ie, thats investment banking. You do not put investments into one thing and leave it for years at a time. you constantly evaluate it. got it?

btw, this conversation is completely pointless, because the RMB is not good to invest in right now... key word, right now...

Oddly enough, thank you for proving my point... (your 2nd paragraph) its only floating for 1.5%. So its not good to invest now, because until it floats, then invest, but until then... and only then... Do you invest.

You sound like a gov't bond type of guy. want sure income, but at low rates... Thats not really for me.

Reality doesn't change, you are right, but BMW is still leading, and until it does faulter, it will still be in the lead. I trust the people in Bayeriche will do well...

why wait 10 years for real estates to triple when it could happen in 2 years with more liquid assets?

actually, I like Bangle's designs... They are quite unique...

I don't feel like talking about the RMB right now...

Jovi.... sorry for huge delay in making this comment but wow....where did you find Lexus profit numbers? These are deeply hidden, I'd love to learn how you dug them up! Best,

gearhead40@aol.com