What Keeps You From Owning a Hyundai? Brand Fine Tunes Approach For New Genesis And Equus Models

The fact that it's a Hyundai. I'm sure they've come a long way but I just can't get excited about a brand like this. Add Kia to that as well. With that said, brand recognition is a big deal. Lincoln has a stigma and it's probably next to close it's doors. Saturn is already gone. To me... these are brands that have historically appealed to certain segments of the population. Lincoln to the older gen, Saturn to the younger gen, followed by Hyundai and Kia appealing to a more "frugal" customer. Saturn went bye bye. Lincoln has tried to change but it's not executing. Hyundai and Kia are kicking out new models but I don't see anyone converting other than former Saturn owners. I'm sure their sales are better than the other brands I mentioned but I just don't see the appeal. They do look better than previous offerings so I give them that. Will be interesting to see how they fare in the long term reliability categories.

A lot of people said that about Lexus. They eventually overcame it.

Well, I still don't drive a Lexus so... I guess a lot of people say a lot of things. I will say I've never had that impression of Lexus or Acura for that matter. Largely because they had the backing of reputable brands to begin with. Hyundai has... well... hyundai..

id get a lincoln if they offered a design that i like.. what im saying is, lincoln has a name and is known as a luxury brand, hyundai will never be on the same level as acura or infiniti.. hell i wouldnt take a hyundai over a toyota or nissan.
if i got a rental or loaner car, i would take an equus over an avalon. if i was buying, id take the avalon.

The lincoln to me doesn't differentiate enough from it's Ford underpinnings like the acura and infiniti brands do. You throw some additional sound deadening and better leather in a taurus and it's the same friggin car for the most part. Agreed on the rental thoughts for sure.

Hyundai and Kia are trying to do what Mazda and VW failed to do decades ago: create luxury/premium models within a mainstream name brand. Mazda scrapped the idea of the Amati and sold cars as the Millenia and 929 instead, and it didn't work. VW tried with the Phaeton and it didn't work.

Name and brand association are very real in the market.

When those attempts were made there were lines in the sand of what is luxury and what wasn't, now those lines are blurred.

I do not agree that the luxury/mainstream lines are blurred. I believe that companies like Hyundai and Kia are attempting to blur them, without much success. Consumers still have a very clear understanding of what a luxury marque is vs. a non-luxury marque.

In some sense, we are talking about two different things. A consumer who truly wants a luxury brand knows where to go. A consumer who is looking for the most for their money knows where to go. Of course, you will definitely get some buyers who close a deal on a Hyundai Equus who will state that they cross-shopped a 5 Series or E Class. But those types of sales will be a very small percentage of the total sales.

Like most Asian cars, They look good on paper by checking the box on key features, but they lack in quality of the drive and materials used. Would argue the same for Lexus, Infinity, and Acura.

Until Hyundai can separate Genesis and Equus nameplates from the rest of the Hyundai lineup and create a completely different dealer network and marketing assault, they will never live up to their potential, no matter how good they are...PERIOD!

That might be the biggest issue of all.

That is a big issue for sure.

Here's an idea, if I were "hypothetically speaking" (VERY) remotely interested in purchasing a said (not really) "premium" car like the Genesis and Equus, then I would like to step into a dealer with services, dealers, decor that is not selling a sonata or a forte or w/e they call the rest of their econo lineup. It's really about presentation of products as well as reliability and might I add ORIGINALITY.

For rapid-learning and improving organizations like Hyundai -- which are capable of jumping the curve -- what they can achieve in the future may not be a logical progression of what they did in the past or what image they had. After all, both Audi and Lexus have shown that things can change in a few years. Interesting to see how Hyundai's next generation luxury models turn out (2015 Genesis, etc.).

Korean companies are synonymous with imitation and cheap. I was over in Niagara and saw Samsung giving away Galaxy S3s for free because the BlackBerrys are out now. Even their brand spanking new Note 2s were going for 50 bucks or something like that.

The same thing goes with cars, unless there's a huge discount, nobody will buy an imitation car if they can afford the original.

Audis may be fine and dandy but if I pay a premium price, I expect premium parts in a car, not some VW or other miscellaneous Euro make in an Audi. Definitely wouldn't pay premium for a Korean car.

Acuras et al may have Jap parts in them but Jap parts have more reputation than some crap parts from Korea.

Sorry Genesis, no discount, no sale, doesn't matter how many fake Bentley emblems you put on. Sorry Equus, I'll never mistaken you for a Rolls Royce

AWD.
My view is keep it as a sub-brand, no separate dealer network ( but require minimum standards), and keep a very high value factor differentiating them from Lexus and the Germans. This work for another cycle and then that. Reposition from a much higher perch. A credible sports version similar to M-Sport and S-Line wouldn't hurt either.

People kept referring to Toyota's success with Lexus but forget about Acura and Infiniti. The difference being Toyota had a strong line up with their Toyota cars that had a strong market leading reputation, so it's easier to introduce a premium line. Hyundai and Kia do not have that market leading position with their low to mid-level cars. Likewise, VW's effort with Phaeton didn't take off because their low to mid-level cars were not world renown. The only exception is Audi but even then, look at the limited success their A8 does against the S and the 7. Hyundai need to dominate their entry to mid-level car segments and then their Equus will have marketing credibility.

...The thing that Lexus had going for it, over what Hyundai is trying to do without creating a seperate Luxury Division, is it had tremendous succeess from its principle conception 50 yrs before Eiji Toyoda, cousin of Kiichiro Toyoda founder of TMC, launched the first upscale product from it's seperate Lexus Division the 1989 Lexus ES250 sedan. This was a brilliant idea that alerted potential buyers that this was not a Toyota. As powerful a name that they had, they knew from then and into the future it had to seperate and create a significantly appealing Luxury Division and build thereon. They had the Automatic Loom Works Inventor and founder of Toyoda, Sakichi Toyoda, current Pres/CEO Akio Toyoda's great-grandfather.

So, I mean listen. You'd have to check out the foundation these guys laid even before the 50 yrs I mentioned and you will discover that Toyota and Lexus have a second to none philosophy and legacy that has propelled them to their relentess pursuit of perfection. Which is an ongoing process to this day. So to even say Hyundai is doing what Lexus did is a very mis-informed statement. As much as one would be led to believe Hyundai will end up with the same results as Toyota or Lexus is simply not likely. There's just way too much ground to cover for Hyundai and it really shows when you look at the 2 Corporation's Market Value as a whole. I mean if we were to genuinely compare Hyundai to Toyota on all but value for a given dollar amount Hyundai would get tanked! The public at large knows innately (the essential character of something) that a Toyota or Lexus product is far superior to a Hyundai/Kia product conceptionally or literally speaking. Finally, the numbers reveal the big picture.

What keeps me from owning a Hyundai is that I have actually driven one–if I recall it was either a Sonata, or the model under it–and it was one of the most mediocre-riding vehicles I have ever drove. Every expansion joint the thing encountered was enough to cause the steering wheel to fight in my grasp.

Not exactly reassuring. Not at all

While The Chevy Cruse I rented a few months prior was one of the best compact rental experiences that I have yet had. It vehicle was solid, well-assembled, and agile.

Hyundai/Kia is making great strides very quickly, but for me, they aren't there yet. But, that's not to say they won't get there in the next few years.
Fuel mileage does not meet their claims. Their engines are coarse compared to the rest in the industry, rev one up a bit. The fit and finish is better all the time, but still rough edges. Most of the Asian cars lack feel in the steering, brakes, seat of the pants, etc., but the Korean makes are the worst.

lexworld: "So to even say Hyundai is doing what Lexus did is a very mis-informed statement. As much as one would be led to believe Hyundai will end up with the same results as Toyota or Lexus is simply not likely. There's just way too much ground to cover for Hyundai"

Car and Driver Comparison test (Feb 2011): 2011 Hyundai Equus vs. 2010 Lexus LS460L
First place: Hyundai Equus
http://tinyurl.com/7r7c4gp

lexworld: "it's seperate Lexus Division the 1989 Lexus ES250 sedan. This was a brilliant idea that alerted potential buyers that this was not a Toyota. As powerful a name that they had, they knew from then and into the future it had to seperate and create a significantly appealing Luxury Division and build thereon."

The LS 400 and ES 250 debuted at the same time in 1989. "In order to avoid introducing the nameplate with only one model, the LS 400, Lexus debuted the ES alongside their flagship sedan." The ES 250 was heavily based on the Toyota Camry Prominent/Vista (V20). The first five generations of the ES were built on the Toyota Camry platform.

Although the Lexus division was formed in 1989 to market and service the LS 400 and ES 250 globally outside Japan, the Lexus division was not given much independence from Toyota's executives. Even Toyota's chairman admitted that "...back then we did not regard Lexus as a brand, but as a distribution channel". It was only in 2011 -- 23 years after the Lexus Division was started -- that organizational changes had Lexus senior managers report directly to Toyota's chairman for the first time in the brand's history.
http://tinyurl.com/czxttzd

"Lexus was born out of a unique situation," says Toyota CEO Akio Toyoda. "A single company giving birth to two brands is unique. We wanted a car to compete with the S-Class. However, back then we did not regard Lexus as a brand, but as a distribution channel." And that's a key insight. It's why Lexus vehicles were sold for many years in Japan as Toyotas, and why Lexus did not have brand or product champions at a senior level within the Toyota organization in Nagoya. Many of the Toyota managers who cycled through Lexus were short-termers who barely understood the concept of a luxury brand. Turning the quotidian Camry into the Lexus ES 250 was as bad an idea as it was when GM created the Cadillac Cimarron from the Chevy Cavalier, but it happened because Toyota belatedly realized Lexus dealers needed an entry-level car. The Camry's reliability and quality --and Lexus' dealership experience--meant Toyota got away with the ES 250. But it also reinforced the notion that Toyota and Lexus cars could basically be one and the same. To fix Lexus, Akio Toyoda has created a stand-alone Lexus division responsible for the design, development, and marketing of Lexus vehicles worldwide. Its senior managers all report directly to him, an organizational structure that is unique within Toyota."

I laughed when I read this "When Korean engineers set about copying the modern LS, they swallowed their inventiveness and simply deployed a really good Xerox machine". They imply the Korean have inventiveness to begin with.

One of the strong points they gave the Equus is that they will pick you up for services. They must pick you up in a Lexus because that point makes no difference to the car you're supposedly buying.
Lexus' knock was its too expensive. Equus knock is that you still have to admit to people its a Hyundai, no matter how much badge hiding Korea does.

Those who can afford it will still go for the original. Those who can't have to admit its just a Hyundai.

Equus verdict: As clones go, this one is uncanny.
Lexus verdict: Still positively abiding by its original mission statement.

I find it rather bias that they fault the LS for not feeling like a sports car (strange considering its a 4000+ lb limousine but don't seem to care with the Equus because its so damn cheap.

I had a bigger laugh to hear that Koreans have no inventiveness to begin with. Koreans apparently invented the retina display used in iPhones, touchscreen mobile phone, world's first multiple rocket launcher, world’s first iron-clad warship, underfloor heating system, taekwondo, and the world's first mass-produced hardware MP3 player – all critical pre-requisites for becoming the world’s best luxury car brand.

Dominic Barton (CEO of McKinsey & Company, a major management consulting firm): “The Koreans, for instance, are just very aggressive. I love that. I lived and worked in Seoul for six years. There is nothing that the Koreans will not do or go for. I have a picture of Park Chung-hee – former president and dictator of South Korea – in my office in London. The picture is from 1969, and shows a dark pit, which was the pit for what would become POSCO – today one of the world’s giant steel-making companies. I keep the picture as an inspiration because the South Koreans built POSCO against the stern advice and protestations of the World Bank. The World Bank told them, in no uncertain terms, not to do this, because South Korea has no natural resources, and no energy. Why, then, would the Koreans try to build a steel company? I am certain that if McKinsey were advising at the time, we would have agreed with the World Bank brief. But the Koreans went ahead anyway, building what is today the world’s most efficient steel company. POSCO has done very well. The POSCO case is emblematic of Korean behaviour. Once they decide – take the auto industry (remember how Korean cars were once perceived?), or even electronics (Samsung was a joke in 1998) – they power ahead. There is just this drive and cohesion among Korean business leaders and among the Koreans more generally… However, the Koreans would bring real ambition and daring to the table.”
http://globalbrief.ca/blog/2013/03/05/asia’s-titans-play-the-long-game/

Why is Samsung the only phone company willing to "sell" its premiere phones for $0? Even BlackBerry's piece of crap, 2 year old models don't go for $0.

Oh, by the way, "Retina" was actually developed by Sharp and another Japanese company, but they were unwilling to sell them for nothing, so in come the Koreans and their marketing machine to make stupid white people believe the Koreans invented everything, including Mercedes Benz. Its amazing what you find out when you do some research instead of simply believing Samsung/Hyundai marketing.

Funny, America teaches Japan how to do things. Japan teaches Korea how to do things, Korea spends a bunch of money and pretends they invented it. The Koreans probably think they invented baseball too.

That sounds like a lot of discovery channel crap. Did the Koreans develop Retina which more a trademark than a technology (I believe its hi-dpi) or were the just contracted out to do it because no one else is willing to do it as cheaply as Koreans? Koreans are a sub-group of the Chinese, historically speaking.

As for Mr. Barton, its easy for the Koreans, or any Asians for that matter, to take an industry when they get unlimited money from their gov'ts to bankrupt whitey by using whitey's technology and selling it for pennies. There's no glory in placing second, you just get to wait until whitey decides what you'll be good at next.

The Koreans are so good at subsidizing their champions that Koreans are drowning in debt because their money is worthless. Good for whitey at Walmart, not so good for the Koreans who work for basically nothing..

You should do some actual research before blurting out what you don't know. Your attitude about the Koreans sounds racist, but it also sounds similar to what was said about the Japanese in the past. Fortunately the vast majority of luxury car buyers are more open minded and will consider these cars on their merits.

Are you sure it is Samsung "selling its premiere phones for $0" or is it the carriers like Sprint giving away phones (to sucker subscribers to switch wireless providers and get into a mutiple-year contract with them)? The new Samsung Galaxy S4 is being released soon so of course the prices on the older Samsung Galaxy S3 are dropping. Carriers are going to look for ways to get rid of their existing Galaxy S3 inventory, while making the money on the contracts.

Samsung was the only company that could produce and originally was the sole supplier of the Retina displays at the launch Apple's third-generation iPad (Sharp and LG started supplying apple only months later). Sharp initially failed Apple's quality standards (resolution, power consumption, etc.) and so was not used as a supplier. In any case, Sharp's version of the Retina display was based on its IGZO display technology -- it is slightly different from Samsung and LG's version of the Retina display. Sharp's version initially failed to meet Apple's display requirements for the retina display, so how could Sharp have invented the Retina Display? LOL.
http://tinyurl.com/d4z2j29
http://tinyurl.com/99z6ckb
http://tinyurl.com/co3tjo8
http://tinyurl.com/cmnc369

There are numerous Korean and Asian companies that are successful without government subsidies. Anyone who understands world history should realize that the West's -- to you, it means "whitey" -- economic success was partly built upon centuries of stealing natural resources from third world countries and forcing open markets for Western products. It's also good for Walmart: Walmart using cheap overseas labor today only continues what many Western businesses have been doing for doing for many years -- in order to earn its massive profits.

Here listen to this Asian intellectual to begin to understand why Asians are successful. Then go read his book "Can Asians Think? Understanding the Divide Between East and West". All this might bring you up to date on these issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwRQjlGXlS8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NfO_7hj5s

"Fortunately the vast majority of luxury car buyers are more open minded and will consider these cars on their merits."
Why do Asians only buy German luxury makes? The Japanese will buy their own cars because they feel theirs are better than American cars but they still yearn for German cars. My Korean friends would rather take a taxi than buy a Korean car. Actually, they generally avoid Korean products because they're not stupid.

Sharp invented, Samsung copied and refined it. No Sharp, no Retina for Samsung to pretend to invent.

Answer my question, why are Korean companies the only ones willing to sell at a loss? Hyundai always sells for less and are crapping themselves now that the Yen is nearly as worthless as the Won. Without government protection, Samsung/Hyundai can't compete.

Racist? Yeah, that's why I generally have few issues with Japanese products. I suppose it would make your argument much easier if I were a charter member of the KKK?

Hey, look, Toyota just released the 2015 Kia Sorrento.
http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/highlander.html