Why Do Germans Hate Lexus So Much?

Why Do Germans Hate Lexus So Much?
Lexus is one of the greatest automotive brands ever. To see all of the success of this Toyota subdivision and how far the brand has come in such a short time is absolutely amazing. With any and nearly all success stories, comes jealousy, and spite. So out of curiosity, I pose the question, just why do fans of German and other European brands hate Lexus so much?

All of this info is collective information from the web, and there's no sugar coating, unlike the "prestigious brands." This is a way more fair view of the history and future of Lexus.

The Lexus Brand
Lexus was inspired by the success of the Toyota Supra sports car and the luxury Toyota Cressida models. Both the Supra and Cressida were rear wheel drive cars with a powerful 7M-GE/7M-GTE engine. The first Lexus-badged models, the V-8 powered LS 400 and the smaller, Toyota Camry-based ES 250, appeared in 1989.

The Lexus marque was launched in the United States in 1989, prompted by the successful launch of the Acura marque by Honda three years prior. Lexus launched later in the United Kingdom, Canada and Australia, in 1990.

An image consulting firm presented a list of 219 names, from which Vectre, Verone, Chaparel, Calibre and Alexis were top candidates. While Alexis quickly became the front runner (possibly due to the association with the Alexis Carrington character on the popular 1980s primetime drama Dynasty) and later morphed to Lexus, the name has been attributed to the combination of the words "luxury" and "elegance." According to Toyota, however, the name had no meaning and was just meant to be pleasing and easy to remember. Just prior to the release of the first vehicles, the database service LexisNexis obtained a temporary injunction forbidding the name Lexus from being used as they stated it might cause confusion. Upon reflection, the court lifted the injunction, deciding that there was a low likelihood of confusion between the two products.

Another theory has surfaced, claiming that the Lexus name was given to the project by Toyota in the mid-80s, as an acronym for Luxury EXport United States.

Hunter Communications, the agency who designed the "L" logo and also presented the name to Toyota management, says Lexus was born of the "LE" on the automaker's luxury edition vehicles, which created the acronym "Luxury Edition for the United States" or "LEUS" with the "x" from "luxury" added to form "LEXUS".

The marque was finally introduced to the Japanese market on July 26, 2005. The compact IS 250\IS 350, convertible SC 430, and midsize GS 350/GS 430 will all be available in Japan in the 2006 model year.

In some countries, like Malaysia, New Zealand, Ireland, and the UK, where there is a market in grey imports of Japanese cars, some equivalent Toyota models have been retro-fitted with Lexus badges, although they still differ slightly from officially imported Lexus models, especially in specification and equipment levels.

Lexus directly competes with such luxury brands as the Europe's Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, and Volvo,Cadillac and Lincoln, and Japanese peers Acura, which launched three years before, and Infiniti which started later in the same year.

Vehicles
The flagship LS 400, known as the Toyota Celsior in the Japanese domestic market, had a unique design, sharing no major elements with previous Toyota vehicles, with a new 4.0 L V8 engine. It was widely praised for its silence, well-appointed interior, fine engine performance, outstanding build quality, and value. (In some markets, it was priced against mid-sized six cylinder Mercedes-Benz and BMW models, while offering size, performance, and quality comparable to their full-size cars). It was generally regarded as a major shock to the European marques, but was criticized by automobile columnists for anonymous styling and a suspension regarded as too compromising of handling for ride comfort. Nonetheless, the LS 400 won several major motoring awards when released.

These attributes have been maintained in subsequent versions of the LS, including the LS 430, and the range has been expanded with other models (the Toyota Windom-based ES 330, the small, sporty, rear-drive IS 200 and IS 300 (based on the Japanese Domestic Market Toyota Altezza), the Toyota Land Cruiser-based LX 470 SUV, and the GS models, based on the Toyota Aristo). The world's second mass-production hybrid SUV was a Lexus (After the Ford Escape SUV in summer 2004). The SC 300/400 (based on Japanese Domestic Market Toyota Soarer) was Lexus' first coupe that made its way to the United States. Subsequently the second generation SC 430 became the first convertible ever to be offered by the company. In terms of volume, Lexus has been the number one selling luxury nameplate in the United States for the past 5 years

Factories
Many Lexus vehicles are manufactured in the Tahara, Japan plant, a highly sophisticated, computerized manufacturing plant. The North American-market RX 350 (since the 2004 model year) is produced in the city of Cambridge, in Ontario, Canada, and is the first Lexus plant located outside of Japan.

Service
Lexus has become known for efforts to project a luxury image even with service provided after the sale. The waiting areas in the service departments are complete with such amenities as a refreshment bar, business center that is soundproofed and stocked with computers and a fax machine, and the service bay is lined with large picture windows to allow the customers to watch the repairs.

In 2005, Lexus came first in the Top Gear Survey, "the UK's biggest independent car satisfaction survey" with over 76,000 respondants

Motor Sports
Lexus has been participating in endurance racing, in particular the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona. In 2005 Lexus was runners-up and in 2006 it won the championship. Although Toyota has won this prestigious race in the past it was the first time that its luxury arm emerged as the winner. Lexus is also going to participate in 12 Hours of Sebring which now form a part of American Le Mans. There has been speculation of a Lexus F1 operation in the near future, in line with its expansion into the luxury car markets, and increasing competition with BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Lexus may enter for the 2007 Formula 1 season as an engine supplier to the WilliamsF1 team, using Toyota engines rebadged as Lexus, but these rumors are purely speculative.

After the release of the Lexus brand on the Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) in 2005, four SC 430 coupes were entered in the SuperGT series in the GT500 class. In the first race of the 2006 series, an SC 430 took the chequered flag.

Lexus Trivia
In the United States, Lexus Financial Savings Bank, in conjunction with US Bank, has launched a Lexus Pursuits Visa Card.
Lexus was requested by Steven Spielberg, an ardent fan of Lexus and himself an owner of LX 470, to design a vehicle which would fit the requirements of year 2054 for his movie Minority Report. Lexus came up with an advanced vehicle which would run on fuel cells and have many advanced safety features including a crash-proof structure. (Lexus' cinematic concept car also appears in The Island, though it's colored blue, not red).
The ES series is roughly based on the US Toyota Camry.
After being discontinued in 1992, the X chassis code for Cressidas was still in use in Japan under the Mark II, Chaser, and Cresta names until the early 2000s.

Future of Lexus
Although Lexus has had phenomenal success in the US since 1991-1992 — within 3 years of its introduction in 1989 — it has been struggling outside North America, including its home country, Japan, where the Lexus brand started marketing in 2005 and is still waiting for the arrival of the LS series due later this year, and in particular Europe. Automotive analysts have pointed out that Lexus has been so successful in North America because the wide consumer base of Toyota and in particular the baby boomers wanted something more luxurious as they were becoming older and their surplus incomes were allowing them to migrate to brands such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW. The huge success of Lexus was in part due to the fact that its higher levels of quality and cut-rate prices enabled it to retain those migrating customers and keep them "in the family".

This also had negative repurcussions as Lexus gradually cemented an image of cut-rate brand, which would offer similarly equipped cars at tens of thousands of dollars less than its primary competitors, Mercedes-Benz and BMW. The former chief of BMW, Eberhard von Kuenhiem predicted that this strategy would work to some extent in US, but not in Europe, where the words premium and luxury do not go well with cut-rate pricing. Some automotive experts believe that Lexus' failure to woo European customers and its very slow incremental increase in European arena is because of the serious damage Lexus has done to its brand image. This has led some automotive thinkers to believe that unless Lexus prices its products head-to-head with the European premium brands and emphasizes its superior quality, reliability and engineering, it will not be able to succeed globally.

However, in general Initial Quality Reports (IQRs) of European brands are seemingly dwindling, while Lexus continues to score highly on such reports. Also, in order to attract European buyers, diesel engines have been added to the lineup, and with Lexus LF concept cars making it into production, Lexus is quickly beginning to re-invent itself as a global luxury car. Some of these new models will come with a sticker price of around $100,000, setting these models against their European rivals in terms of price.

And all this talk of awards? "How many Ward's Interior Awards has Lexus won?" A little advice to the Germans, don't play the "awards" card, you'll lose every time.
How many J.D. Power's awards and surveys has BMW won? How many IntelliChoice awards?

Here's the list of awards for just the Lexus brand overall:
Never mind, it would take up too much page space. Just know that Lexus has won some type of J.D. Power award every year since 1990!

Now, it seems that (once again) the majority of you are getting hung up on the word "prestige." Even i have posted that Lexus doesn't have the "prestige" of Mercedes. However, Webster's defines prestige as "standing or estimation in the eyes of people : weight or credit in general opinion." So by this definition, Lexus is "prestigious" because in the eyes of the majority of the American people, Lexus is regarded as a very successful luxury brand!

The ultimate reason for the German's dislike of Lexus is their success. Lexus was created exclusively for the North American market, and in North America, Lexus has been the #1 seller of luxury cars for the last 5 years! Also, calling Americans "uninformed" and "stupid" because they buy Lexus models is simply wrong, and what a truly "stupid" person would do. Lexus isn't a success in Europe, you got me there. I would expect for the European brands to remain popular... in Europe! However, pay close attention to the 'Future of Lexus' section. I think it maps out what's going to happen in Europe over the next decade...




mstangpny07mstangpny07 - 8/12/2006 1:54:46 AM
0 Boost
Did you really type that all by yourself? Or did you cut-and-paste?
Anyways, you have to much time on your hands.


maikoazumaikoazu - 8/12/2006 2:27:19 AM
+1 Boost
I'm Japanese ;) Two sentences into this and zZZZ...


00JT00JT - 8/12/2006 2:30:51 AM
+1 Boost
The way BMW and Mercedes are precieved here in North America is very different than how they are precieved in Europe. Here most people think of BMW and Mercedes as companies that only make the finest luxury cars, however in Europe they sell many low-end models.

Lexus has the same image as BMW and Mercedes in North America, which is why they are doing so well. Many people say they need lower end models with smaller engines and less features to satisfy the European market. But then what's the point? They have Toyota for that.

Europeans see BMW and Mercedes like how we North Americans see Toyota and Honda. Because BMW and Mercedes have a much more broader range of cars in Europe. Also since they need not to be shipped overseas, the price is also relatively less than what we pay here in North America. Buying a Camry or Accord to us is like buying a C Class or 3 Series to them.

Think of what would happen if Mercedes and BMW started to sell some of their low end cars here. The C Coupe didn't do so well because it was too cheap for a Mercedes. The BMW 1 Series would meet the same fate if it was sold here.

I also think that it's very unfair the way people call Americans "stupid" where the North American market is one of the largest and toughest places to sell cars and do well!

Lexus achieved popularity in North America in less than a decade. It will take them a little more time to win over new fans from all parts of the world.


IamEvilHomerIamEvilHomer - 8/12/2006 2:32:51 AM
+1 Boost
I don't think they hate them they just don't respect them/

and you need more pictures to get me to read all that


kart1kart1 - 8/12/2006 2:33:16 AM
+1 Boost
yeah this is long, but the answer is short:

The competition is scary. No matter how worse people think Lexus is when compared to the German trio it is still competition, and a successful competition too.


JoviJovi - 8/12/2006 2:43:19 AM
+1 Boost
Will...

No Lexus in F1 for the near Future... Williams says no to Toyota rebadging engines as Lexus and will look to another company if Toyota rebadges... It will be Toyota...

Lexus has gone far, in North America... I am a German Car fan, and think Lexus has done well in North America, but will struggle world wide, in Europe and China




AUDIMAN4AUDIMAN4 - 8/12/2006 2:43:21 AM
+1 Boost
I wouldn't say I dislike Lexus--I, along with the everyone else in the world, do not think they should be regarded as highly as Audi, BMW, or MB.

maiko: I lived in Japan for two years and had an awesome time. I speak Japanese fluently. I also love Japanese women!


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/12/2006 7:47:55 AM
0 Boost
"Lexus is one of the greatest automotive brands ever."

It will be a long time before this statement is true. They're a great car company, but not one of the greatest brands ever. A "great brand" is internationally renonwed and successful. Lexus is only successful in the US so far.


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/12/2006 7:52:30 AM
+1 Boost
00JT

Lexus has the same image as BMW and Mercedes in North America, which is why they are doing so well. Many people say they need lower end models with smaller engines and less features to satisfy the European market. But then what's the point? They have Toyota for that.
--------------------------------------------------

BMW and MB have always done this in Europe, especially after the post World War II period. Not everyone could afford a luxury car, and hence BMW and MB had to offer cars like the Isetta or 170V / 170D: cheap and economical transport for the masses to get the companies started again.



Europeans see BMW and Mercedes like how we North Americans see Toyota and Honda. Because BMW and Mercedes have a much more broader range of cars in Europe. Also since they need not to be shipped overseas, the price is also relatively less than what we pay here in North America. Buying a Camry or Accord to us is like buying a C Class or 3 Series to them.
-------------------------------------------------

The C-Class Sportcoupe failed because it wasn't marketed properly. This car wasn't aimed at your typical Mercedes buyers but at a younger audience to get them introduced to the brand. Many people didn't understand that and criticized the car out of their own ignorance. The BMW 1-Series, IF marketed properly, can be a success. BMW should learn from their mistake with the 3er Compact in the USA.

Marketing is the key to changing perceptions.



AlexTxAlexTx - 8/12/2006 10:01:00 AM
+2 Boost
Lexus was created for the U.S market primarely.
Lexus only entered its home market this year.
They are way too soft for Europeans and European roads.
Europeans love to drive; for them a car is not something they use to go to work all the time. They usually take the excellent public transportation and use their cars on weekends to escape.
They want to drive and have fun. Lexus cars for them don't have any "soul" and Europeans do not feel connected with the car nor the road.
They are too floaty and these few owners might feel like sitting in their sofa.
Toyota is doing very well in Europe, but when you get to the luxury car segment, they want something with more to it than just sheet metal, an engine, seats and steering wheel.
Give me something that drives and handles well.
That is where the European cars are king.
Also most of the Lexus models are sold through Toyota dealerships; until they move out, it won't improve much.
Europeans know that it is a rebadged Toyota. They share the same body panels for most cars between the 2 brands.
They will also tell you that when you shut the door of a Lexus or any Japanese car, they don't have the same "solid" feel as a European car. The doors don't feel as heavy.
Don't get me wrong, Lexus do make some nice cars, but when you are looking for something responsive and sporty, they cannot stack up against European cars.


JCF110JCF110 - 8/12/2006 10:41:16 AM
+1 Boost
its because a Lexus is just a re-badged Toyota! It's ulike Audi which is a re-badged Volkswagen though! Toyota is a premium/value brand. Volkswagen has some pretty expensive cars... and the prices in Audi's don't range much higher than in Volkswagens... and Audi's have better standard features! Lexus is just all about the name!


RupertRupert - 8/12/2006 10:54:32 AM
+1 Boost
00jt, i kind of agree with what you say. bmw 3 series' are ten a penny, and mercs are everywhere.
does america see toyota as a reasonably high end brand?
as in above ford below merc? as that is how we view vw and honda (only recently).
honda is now getting more high end, but to have a merc, bmw or audi is still a status symbol, no matter what model it is. lower end bmws are veiwed as more prestigious than lower end m-bs.
are mercs "exclusive" in america? are they rare?
i am now seeing many new s classes, they are popular with taxi firms and limo services. this is helped by the smaller engines we get, the 320cdi and 350 petrol.
smaller engines do lower the prices, as cars are very expensive here, but the average wage is probably more. in the uk it is 25000 pounds, or 45000 dollars.
most vehicles here though (of whatever size) have a well constructed interior, good handling and ride, and even something as small as a toyota aygo is 7000 pounds (12600 dollars), but it handles, is good looking and has quite a good interior, and is ipod compatible as standard.
off topic, but i have an american friend who says you can't send text messages on phones in america, is this true?


RupertRupert - 8/12/2006 10:56:04 AM
+1 Boost
jcf100, toyota has no cachet here at all. vw does.
golf is better than corolla, passat better than avensis (think we only get that here), touareg better than lexus rx or toyota land cruiser.


BMWMPowerBMWMPower - 8/12/2006 11:00:56 AM
+1 Boost
LEXUS = TOYOTA IN DISGUISE..

Yes...i know... it is really that simple...

back to some discussion worth having now.


AlexTxAlexTx - 8/12/2006 11:02:35 AM
+1 Boost
jcf100.
There is a huge difference...
Toyota created Lexus.
VW purchased Audi.
You will not find the VW body panel on an Audi, but you will find Toyoto body panel on a Lexus.
The GS has a Corolla trunk on it.


CinosCinos - 8/12/2006 12:04:12 PM
+1 Boost
I should just point out that Lexus is not the biggest selling premium brand in all of North America, America maby, but BMW is the biggest seller in Canada. Not sure why though, toyota is extremely popular even though they do rip off the entire country. The Tacoma for instance starts at 33 thousand CDN, and 13 thousand US, with only a 10 cents difference in the dollar. And the situation just adds insult to injury when you find out that alot of Toyota models are manufactured not only in north america, but in Canada itself. Oh and American dealers have an agreement not to sell to Canadians aswell. Seriously, somebody must of told them that its not the best business practice to rip off 30+ million people for no reason. I do believe I hate them now, and will celebrate when Hundai, or some chinese company rolls in with a better deal all the while matching there "quality" and slowly errodes away the companies marketshare and beats them down so they reflect the slowly dieing rock they came from.


DarkOneForceDarkOneForce - 8/12/2006 12:19:04 PM
+1 Boost
Good points 00JT except for one thing, MB and BMW are not seen as americans see Toyota and Honda.


Read:
Mercedes Benz, BMW and Audi Seen as Top Three Car Manufacturers in Terms of Overall Brand Quality By Europeans, According to New Harris Interactive Survey

LONDON AND ROCHESTER, New York, September 13 /PRNewswire/ -- Harris Interactive(R) has conducted new research to understand the values that adult consumers from Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Spain associate with 21 major automobile brands ahead of the firm's attendance at The 61st International Motor Show (IAA) Cars in Frankfurt, Germany.


Key findings from the study include:

-- In the five European markets surveyed overall, consumers regard
Mercedes Benz (#1), BMW (#2) and Audi (#3) as the top three car
manufacturers in terms of overall brand quality. Fourth on the list is
Volvo, the only non-German brand to make it into the top five on the
overall list, while Volkswagen takes the fifth spot overall.

-- Only two of the European markets surveyed have Japanese brands in
their top five lists for overall brand quality (Lexus #3 in the UK and
Toyota #5 in Italy).

-- Among the 21 automobile brands measured, Fiat is considered to be the
worst brand for overall quality in the five European markets surveyed
except in its home market, where Italians have only a poorer opinion
of Skoda. Skoda is amongst the worst five brands across all five
European markets, as is Hyundai. Citroen escapes this dubious
distinction in France alone. In most countries the indigenous brands
are rated more favourably. However, a notable exception is the United
Kingdom, where Rover follows closely behind Fiat as the second worst
brand in terms of overall quality.

-- Prestigious German cars, including BMW, Mercedes Benz and Audi, are on
the overall top five lists for brands that convey the values of
success and financial security; however, they do not make the lists
for brands that convey the values of family, freedom or sociability.

-- A third (33%) of European adults surveyed believes Alfa Romeo conveys
a sense of freedom to consumers. After Alfa Romeo, it is mainly the
Far Eastern brands, including Honda (27%), Mazda (26%), Toyota (24%),
Hyundai (20%), which signify freedom to consumers.

-- Some mass market manufacturers (Ford, Opel/Vauxhall, Renault and
Skoda) convey family values to Europeans surveyed overall, while
others, particularly Fiat, Hyundai, Citroen and Peugeot, imply
sociability, but for many, they do not convey financial security or
success.

-- Consumers are more likely to associate family values with cars
manufactured or badged in their own countries. So, in Italy, Fiat
conveys the strongest family values; in F


DarkOneForceDarkOneForce - 8/12/2006 12:20:16 PM
+1 Boost
Fiat
conveys the strongest family values; in France, Peugeot, Renault and
Citroen; in Germany, Volkswagen comes in third on the list after Ford
and Vauxhall/Opel, and likewise, Rover in the United Kingdom.

"The ability to tap into the perceptions and values held by car buyers, and indeed, customers of any product or service, is a critical factor in understanding what drives human decision-making," comments George Terhanian, President of European Operations and Global Internet Research, Harris Interactive. Terhanian continues, "Our ability to quickly and efficiently interview large numbers of Europeans, all members of our multimillion member panel of consumers, makes it much easier for us to generate the kind of evidence we need to inform and guide the development of our clients' marketing and communications strategies."


TABLE 1
OVERALL QUALITY PERCEPTIONS - SUMMARY BY COUNTRY OF HIGHEST SCORING
BRANDS
"How would you rate the following in terms of their overall quality as a
car brand?"
Base: All Adults

Overall for Great France Italy Spain Germany
Five Britain
Countries
(n=6,717) (n=2,080) (n=1,179) (n=1,181) (n=1,079) (n=1,198)
Mean Mean Mean Mean Mean Mean
Score Score Score Score Score Score
(Ranking) (Ranking)(Ranking) (Ranking) (Ranking) (Ranking)
Mercedes
Benz 6.1 (1) 5.9 (1) 6.2 (1) 6.2 (=1) 6.5 (1) 5.6 (3)
BMW 6.0 (2) 5.7 (2) 6.1 (2) 6.2 (=1) 6.4 (2) 5.8 (=1)
Audi 5.9 (3) 5.6 (=3) 6.0 (3) 6.0 (3) 6.3 (3) 5.8 (=1)
Volvo 5.5 (4) 5.3 (=6) 5.4 (=5(a))5.6 (=4) 6.0 (4) 5.4 (4)
Volkswagen 5.4 (5) 5.3 (=6) 5.5 (4) 5.6 (=4) 5.8 (5) 5.0 (7)
Lexus 5.2 (6) 5.6 (=3) 4.9 (=11) 5.0 (=8) 5.3 (=7(a)) 5.1 (6)
Saab 5.2 (7) 5.4 (5) 5.0 (=9) 5.3 (=6) 5.3 (=7(a)) 4.7 (=8(b))
Toyota 5.2 (8) 5.2 (=8) 5.1 (8) 5.3 (=6) 5.4 (6) 5.2 (5)

Note 1: Twenty-one car brands included: Alfa Romeo, Audi, BMW, Citroen,
Fiat, Ford, Honda, Hyundai, Lexus, Mazda, Mercedes Benz, Nissan,
Opel (Vauxhall in GB), Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Saab, Skoda,
Toyota, Volkswagen, Volvo

Note 2: Ratings on a 7-point scale, where 7 equals outstanding quality
and 1 equals poor, unacceptable quality. Rankings based on mean
scores in each country.

(a) With Peugeot (not listed on table)
(b) With Honda (not listed on table)


TABLE 2
OVERALL QUALITY PERCEPTIONS - SUMMARY BY COUNTRY OF LOWEST SCORING BRANDS
"How would you rate the following in terms of


DarkOneForceDarkOneForce - 8/12/2006 12:21:07 PM
+1 Boost
their overall quality as a
car brand?"
Base: All Adults

Overall Great France Italy Spain Germany
for Five Britain
Countries
(n=6,717) (n=2,080) (n=1,179) (n=1,181) (n=1,079) (n=1,198)
Mean Mean Mean Mean Mean Mean
Score Score Score Score Score Score
(Ranking) (Ranking) (Ranking) (Ranking) (Ranking) (Ranking)
Fiat 3.7 (21) 3.6 (21) 3.6 (=20) 4.0 (20) 4.2 (=20) 3.4 (21)
Hyundai 4.1 (=19) 4.2 (18) 3.9 (19) 4.3 (19) 4.4 (19) 3.9 (18)
Skoda 4.1 (=19) 4.3 (17) 3.6 (=20) 3.8 (21) 4.2 (=20) 4.2 (20)
Citroen 4.5 (=17) 4.1 (19) 5.0 (=9) 4.7 (17) 4.9 (=17) 4.1 (19)
Rover 4.5 (=17) 3.9 (20) 4.8 (=13) 4.8(=14) 4.9 (=17) 4.3(=14)


TABLE 3
TOP FIVE BRANDS ASSOCIATED WITH "SUCCESS" - SUMMARY BY COUNTRY
"Which one of the listed values do you think best describes the following
car brands?"
Percent selecting "success"
Base: All Adults

Overall Great France Italy Spain Germany
for Five Britain
Countries
(n=6,717) (n=2,080) (n=1,179) (n=1,181) (n=1,079) (n=1,198)
% % % % % %
BMW 56 56 70 48 54 54
Mercedes Benz 53 53 68 42 52 49
Audi 48 49 56 38 49 45
Lexus 45 49 51 32 44 46
Alfa Romeo 34 39 41 30 34 24


DarkOneForceDarkOneForce - 8/12/2006 12:22:23 PM
+1 Boost
TABLE 4
TOP FIVE BRANDS ASSOCIATED WITH "FINANCIAL SECURITY" - SUMMARY BY COUNTRY
"Which one of the listed values do you think best describes the following
car brands?"
Percent selecting "financial security"
Base: All Adults

Overall Great France Italy Spain Germany
for Five Britain
Countries
(n=6,717) (n=2,080) (n=1,179) (n=1,181) (n=1,079) (n=1,198)
% % % % % %
Mercedes Benz 37 39 22 50 32 40
BMW 29 32 20 42 26 25
Lexus 27 30 17 35 24 26
Audi 26 24 19 38 27 21
Saab 25 23 24 32 25 18


TABLE 5
TOP FIVE BRANDS ASSOCIATED WITH "FREEDOM" - SUMMARY BY COUNTRY
"Which one of the listed values do you think best describes the following
car brands?"
Percent selecting "freedom"
Base: All Adults

Overall Great France Italy Spain Germany(c)
for Five Britain
Countries
(n=6,717) (n=2,080) (n=1,179) (n=1,181) (n=1,079) (n=1,198)
% % % % % %
Alfa Romeo 33 23 37 31 26 52
Honda 27 15 26 36 30 36
Mazda 26 25 20 33 29 24
Toyota 24 15 24 36 34 19
Hyundai 20 17 19 30 21 13
(c) Rover 32%
<end_table)


AlexTxAlexTx - 8/12/2006 12:34:27 PM
+3 Boost
Zedani; Find me an Audi that has a VW door, trunk or roof on it.


TilloTillo - 8/12/2006 2:34:34 PM
+2 Boost
Nice essay, A+


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/12/2006 3:19:39 PM
+1 Boost
Will,

Marketing is one of the very few reasons BMW and Mercedes are still afloat in the American industry. Newsflash: WWII ended well over some 60 years ago. 00JT has very valid points. Go to Europe, and the exclusivity that makes Mercedes and BMW so popular in America totally disappears. Base models of every car in the two brands' line-ups are about as common as... the Toyota Camry, which has been the #1-selling car in America for how many years?
-----------------------------------------------

So? This is their home-turf. They continued to make cars for the "masses" while at the same time offering luxury. Think of it this way. Someone in Europe with a decent income can buy a stripper BMW 318i and feel good. Someone, again, in Europe, with a higher income can buy a 335i or an M3 and still relish the prestige factor. It works two ways. I wouldn't say a 318i is luxury, but it is PREMIUM. Starting with the 325i, you enter the luxury world of BMW I suppose.


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/12/2006 3:21:05 PM
+1 Boost
AlexTx,

Also most of the Lexus models are sold through Toyota dealerships; until they move out, it won't improve much.
Europeans know that it is a rebadged Toyota. They share the same body panels for most cars between the 2 brands.
------------------------------------------

I generally agree with most of what you said, but I've been over to Europe many times and Lexus' cars are sold in LEXUS dealerships, not Toyota.

Most Europeans also wouldn't know that some Lexus are rebadged Toyota's from the JDM market because those cars are not sold in Europe.

Just correcting you. ;)


UPshiftUPshift - 8/12/2006 4:12:22 PM
+2 Boost
Blah, blah, blah.

It's simple. Regardless of what Lexus is or isn't, it had effectively cut the German marques' market share. That makes them the enemy of the established luxury brands. One could argue all day about what's better (witness the silly Audi vs. BMW debacle this site has become) but at the end of the day it comes down to sales and market share.


RupertRupert - 8/12/2006 4:24:42 PM
+1 Boost
my nearest lexus dealer is also a toyota one.
the lexus/toyota link is known, as is the fact that it is japanese, which carries many negative feelings with it.


crackityjonescrackityjones - 8/12/2006 5:57:14 PM
+1 Boost
Will, that was one tour-de-force. You go girl!

We both know the topic of Lexus renders otherwise-intellgent people complete idiots.

BMW people can rest peacefully tonight knowing they don't have a door handle from another car model on their 530i. Oh brother!


LexusLexus - 8/12/2006 6:48:38 PM
-2 Boost

German auto fans hate Lexus because of the success Lexus has have. In less than two decade Lexus is either on par or above it German competitor. The IS350 beat the 330i and Audi A4 from 0-60 time. Now BMW just came out with a twinturbo 335i to catch up with the IS350. As far as interior design and design wise Lexus is way superior than both the Audi and BMW and Mb brand for sure. Go read the survey done by J.D. Power Associates on this website. Lexus rank number # 1 on the list and their mother company (Toyota) is number #5 on the list.

Just wait entil the Lexus IS500 with 450+ hp come out, it going to gave the M3, RS4 and C-class AMG a run it money. Stop your hating and just accept the success Lexus is having. Unlike most you German nut auto fans I admire all type of cars. But Lexus happen to be my favorite.

Lexus for life




sewingmachinesewingmachine - 8/12/2006 8:07:55 PM
+1 Boost
[I should just point out that Lexus is not the biggest selling premium brand in all of North America, America maby, but BMW is the biggest seller in Canada. Not sure why though, toyota is extremely popular even though they do rip off the entire country. The Tacoma for instance starts at 33 thousand CDN, and 13 thousand US, with only a 10 cents difference in the dollar. And the situation just adds insult to injury when you find out that alot of Toyota models are manufactured not only in north america, but in Canada itself. Oh and American dealers have an agreement not to sell to Canadians aswell. Seriously, somebody must of told them that its not the best business practice to rip off 30+ million people for no reason. I do believe I hate them now, and will celebrate when Hundai, or some chinese company rolls in with a better deal all the while matching there "quality" and slowly errodes away the companies marketshare and beats them down so they reflect the slowly dieing rock they came from.]


the reason most things are cheaper in the us, even though the canadian$ is almost par with us$ is because theres 10x the population. us move way more products. if u acutally see how many cars canada sells to the states, its pretty miniscule.





AUDIMAN4AUDIMAN4 - 8/12/2006 9:58:10 PM
+2 Boost
huu76:

I don't think that is what Rupert was implying at all. Please don't try and turn this into something it's not. I lived in Japan for two years, but look at Lexus much the way Japanese do--a brand not on par with Audi, BMW, and MB.

I should also add that I'm black and drive an Audi.


00JT00JT - 8/12/2006 10:14:36 PM
+1 Boost
BMW530i,

"BMW and MB have always done this in Europe, especially after the post World War II period. Not everyone could afford a luxury car, and hence BMW and MB had to offer cars like the Isetta or 170V / 170D: cheap and economical transport for the masses to get the companies started again."

Understandable, however the Lexus is Toyota's luxury marque. If they offered low end cars, why would Toyota bother selling cars in Europe all together? There would be no point.

"The C-Class Sportcoupe failed because it wasn't marketed properly. This car wasn't aimed at your typical Mercedes buyers but at a younger audience to get them introduced to the brand. Many people didn't understand that and criticized the car out of their own ignorance. The BMW 1-Series, IF marketed properly, can be a success. BMW should learn from their mistake with the 3er Compact in the USA."

Also because it was a poor value when compared to other cars for the same money. I believe the old C Coupe was about 25-30k. For the same price or less you could get a Honda Accord EX V6, VW Jetta GLI, VW Golf GTI, Acura TL, Nissan Maxima, Infiniti G35, etc.

When Mercedes and BMW offer a car that is low-end, North American consumers will begin to see what other cars they can get for the money. In that aspect BMW and Mercedes cannot make a good car for as little as 25k.



SixxFiveSixxFive - 8/12/2006 11:14:39 PM
-1 Boost
efoxS4: awesome interiors don't mean a thing if you have a vehicle that is unreliable. Audi ranks the lowest out of all the German "luxury" makes...although I would consider Audi "near luxury".


LexusLexus - 8/12/2006 11:17:42 PM
0 Boost

efoxs4, you need to stop whatever you smoking bro!:) VW better than Toyota, dream on bro. In fact VW Jetta copy the Toyota Corrola. Man don't goes there, even the Hyundai Sonnata interior look better than the Audi. Kia interior way better looking than the Jetta. If you want to compare the VW (People Wagon), compare it to the Hyundai and kia brand.

It won't be long when Audi the old timer auto company will become obsolete just like the whatcha!..call it, oh yeah Jaguar...

efoxS4, you are right about one thing that has spend alot of it time to make sure Audi has the higest-quality interior. Yeah...I bet because that are they have left. On the other hand in the performance side, BMW is kicking Audi ASS...left and right. Yeah big deal the new RS4 with 420 hp goes as fast as the current M3. Just wait entil the new M3 come out with 420 hp off their own and they are going make Audi their Bitch again.

Oh on the prestige side, MB hold that crown with their new S class and CLS. Between the three German car only, Performance BMW, Prestige, and playing catch Audi. It won't belong before Lexus bump Audi out of the prestige Segement to reserve a seat of prestige of their own.

Lexus


AUDIMAN4AUDIMAN4 - 8/12/2006 11:55:04 PM
+2 Boost
I have to agree that Lexus interiors are not as good as Audi's. I think the interior of my 2004 A4, which cost about $33k new is significantly better than the one in my dad's new GS. It just looks and feels, as efox put it..."richer".

Move up to an A6 and A8 and the comparisons become even more ridiculous. There is no comparison.


lexusis350lexusis350 - 8/13/2006 1:18:54 AM
-1 Boost
BMW530i:

When you said that Lexus wasn't a great car internationally, the article said that they are successful in several countries. Just give it time before the out do Mercedes and BMW.


SixxFiveSixxFive - 8/13/2006 3:37:18 AM
+2 Boost
00JT- you don't know what you are talking about when you say that Europeans consider M-B and BMW as economy cars....ignorance is not bliss.


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/13/2006 6:00:41 AM
+1 Boost
huu76,

Your logic makes sense and is precisely the reason why Toyota should remain Toyota and imo, drop Lexus. Up until this year, the Japanese home market had no beefs about buying a luxury Toyota over a BMW. Now they'll have to start scratching their heads wondering if Lexus is really an honest to goodness Toyota, or some crappy German brand.
German feelings of superiority think when the Japanese do it, they're inferior. But German hypocrisy says its okay when BMW or MB fields a model range from bare bones econo to rip-off luxo.

Basically, trying to imply Toyota is inferior is simply outright fear.
------------------------------------------

HUH?

Toyota is in Japan as what BMW or Mercedes are in Germany. Toyota, in Japan, offers MAINSTREAM and PREMIUM / LUXURY CARS. BMW and Mercedes' do the same in their home turf.

And don't let some of the German fanboys convince you that we're all like them. I've been to Japan, I've seen what Toyota offers there. Nissan, Mazda and Mitsubish do the same thing there. Heck, even BMW or MB sells watered down 318i's or C180K's in Japan, and the Japanese still buy them.

The US is one of the few markets where "image is everything". BMW sells 318i's in the Middle East, Asia and Europe of course. To all other people, a 318i is a wonderful car. It has the BMW badge amongst others. Only in power-spoiled America, where we're told "BMW 318i's are crap because they do 0-60 in 9 seconds..." is a 318i something no one wants to be seen in, because we equate luxury with power. My point is that Lexus is successful in America because their cars were designed for America. In Europe and elsewhere, big gas-guzzling V6's and V8's don't work.

And where do I say "Toyota is inferior"? Where did you get this from? I never said Toyota is inferior. Heck, I never even insulted your beloved Toyota here at all. Unlike you ("crappy German brands")...


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/13/2006 6:06:37 AM
+1 Boost
00JT,

Understandable, however the Lexus is Toyota's luxury marque. If they offered low end cars, why would Toyota bother selling cars in Europe all together? There would be no point.
-------------------------------------------------

Toyota and Lexus are two different things. Toyota in Europe isn't luxury at all. They don't sell a single car in Europe which could be considered "premium". In Japan, they have cars like the Crown, Mark II etc. which are premium / luxury Toyota's for an attractive price. America gets the Avalon. Europe? They get nothing luxurious from Toyota.

Lexus is aiming to be a luxury brand in Europe, and to a certain degree they are, but there's simply no APPEAL. That's all I am trying to say. Lexus don't appeal to Europeans because they're designed for the American market. This means softer suspensions, vague steering and big powerful engines. Europeans want a sportier suspension, direct steering and smaller engines. It's that simple. I've noticed that European Mercedes' for instance have a harder suspension and more direct steering feel than the ones we get here. Basically, Lexus HAS NOT adjusted their cars for the European market, and hence they're not doing well there. This also applies to Japan and other markets around the world. ;)



Also because it was a poor value when compared to other cars for the same money. I believe the old C Coupe was about 25-30k. For the same price or less you could get a Honda Accord EX V6, VW Jetta GLI, VW Golf GTI, Acura TL, Nissan Maxima, Infiniti G35, etc.

When Mercedes and BMW offer a car that is low-end, North American consumers will begin to see what other cars they can get for the money. In that aspect BMW and Mercedes cannot make a good car for as little as 25k.
----------------------------------------

True, it was overpriced as part of the Benz "prestige pricing" strategy. It also came poorly equipped I believe. This is what goes on in Europe too. I believe someone as Mercedes made the mistake off offering "European luxury" (aka poorly spec'd cars) in America for a high price.


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/13/2006 6:13:02 AM
+1 Boost
Lexus IS350,

When you said that Lexus wasn't a great car internationally, the article said that they are successful in several countries. Just give it time before the out do Mercedes and BMW.
------------------------------

Several countries? Like AMERICA and CANADA? That's two countries, a small portion compared to where the Germans sell their cars with success.

Look, ask your average world citizen about a luxury car and he will most likely mention Mercedes-Benz first, followed by Rolls-Royce and then perhaps BMW. Lexus, what's that?

You always talk about how Lexus will rule the world. They can't rule the world if they don't create appealing cars. Lexus sell in America because they were designed for this market and because they're cheaper than the competition. Elsewhere in the world, a Lexus has ZERO APPEAL. And unless they begin offering smaller engines and different trim levels to suit various tastes in Europe and Japan, they will only be successful in America. Period.


RupertRupert - 8/13/2006 11:02:15 AM
+2 Boost
huu76

a japanese brand still carries feelings of cheap cars, when they were introduced into britain they were cheap and were souless machines.
many british people wouldn't understand a japanese luxury brand, it doesn't make sense. japan = ordered, clinical and quiet.
luxury feelings, sporting pretentions and some soul do not apply to japanese brands in many british peoples eyes.
the germany thing disappeared quickly, we know german=best, that's how it is here.
i wasn't trying to imply racism or anything. the reason it is hindered is not because it's japanese, it's because it's not german or a jaguar.
same reason why volvo isn't totally premium.
lexus really isn't seen as a totally premium brand here. the rx competes on some levels with an ml, but on more levels with a nissan murano and volvo xc90.
the ls's competitiors don't really exist, m-b s class maybe, but in real life one wouldn't be choosing between them.
a gs's rival would be a honda legend, citroen c6 and volvo s80, not many others. people choose lexus because of the fact that it isn't german.
there are 4 levels of brand in the uk (excluding hyper luxury and supercars), with m-b, bmw, audi, jaguar and land rover at the top, then lexus, volvo, alfa romeo, saab, chrysler and vw to a degree, then honda, volkswagen and chrysler again, renault and citroen for some of their cars ,nissan, then at the bottom toyota, citroen, peugeot, renault, ford, vauxhall, seat, fiat etc.


M53RM53R - 8/13/2006 11:46:19 AM
+2 Boost
ok, let me ask u a simple question....which car do u like to b seen in, a BMW or Lexus? Without even questioning, BMW. BMW has the image, which lexus lacks. BTW isnt Lexus an american company? and a japanese? = disaster. Lexus is considered something below BMW by margins. I sat in a lexus GS430 (full options) and im not lieing when i say the materials used feel cheap. + interior is mostly plastic (except the wood ofcourse). I 4got to mention that the new LS lacks design and character.


00JT00JT - 8/13/2006 3:43:28 PM
+1 Boost
BMW530i,

"Lexus is aiming to be a luxury brand in Europe, and to a certain degree they are, but there's simply no APPEAL. That's all I am trying to say. Lexus don't appeal to Europeans because they're designed for the American market. This means softer suspensions, vague steering and big powerful engines. Europeans want a sportier suspension, direct steering and smaller engines. It's that simple. I've noticed that European Mercedes' for instance have a harder suspension and more direct steering feel than the ones we get here. Basically, Lexus HAS NOT adjusted their cars for the European market, and hence they're not doing well there. This also applies to Japan and other markets around the world. ;)"

I can't speak for other countries, but in Japan "luxury Toyotas" sell more than BMW and Mercedes. You are correct that Lexus doesn't have as much appeal as BMW and Mercedes in other parts of the world. However that doesn't mean they will never gain the level of prestige that Mercedes and BMW have worldwide. I believe they need two things before this happens: a performance devision and a redesign of all their SUV's so they are not rebadged Toyotas in every other part of the world.




phaetonmeisterphaetonmeister - 8/13/2006 4:39:57 PM
+1 Boost
You Boy's need to get laid or rub one out!!!! Geez..... this site is being over taken by car queers!!!


TheGeniusTheGenius - 8/13/2006 5:20:55 PM
+2 Boost
Why do US buyers like Lexus and most German buyers don’t?
1) In the US, Luxury features (Leather, navigation, intelligent cruise etc..) in a car are more important than brand heritage. In Europe, and especially in Germany, Brand Heritage is more important than Luxury features, and is in fact one the most essential elements of Luxury. Another essential element is exclusivity, and the Germans create exclusivity by marketing special models in small numbers that help to neutralize the effect of some of their entry level cars (think Audi RS4 which has a 9 month waiting list in some European countries and a few months in the US), AMG, M for BMW (They are not just higher performance models you know). Quite simply Lexus subscribes to the Toyota model. Mass produce, keep prices low and sell as many of everything as you can.
2) Germans can be described as "car people". They take driving seriously, look after their cars, and love cars with very good handling that can cruise at high speeds. They happen to be very good drivers relative to their US counterparts, and push their cars to levels not seen on American roads. Cars from BMW, AUDI & MBenz were designed to meets these goals. Its that environment that propels Germans to produce the sort of cars they do. For the most part, I believe Lexus has already conquered the Luxury part of the equation, but the handling and styling (nothing authentic on the road yet just copies) still have some way to go. Drive a GS (sports Lexus???) and you'll see what I mean. (Interestingly, I believe Infinity is doing a better job in the handling space than Lexus).
3) In Germany, Lexus is known as the cheap Luxury car that is basically a reskinned Toyota. Cheap and Luxury don't go together and most Germans don't want to drive a Toyota as a Luxury car no matter what its called. Most Americas don't know the origin of Lexus and quite frankly they few that do, don't care. If they can get the "luxury car” in their driveway that's ok….you worry about who makes it. I think Lexus has the best marketing of all the Luxury makes and that helps it push more cars in the US. Also, they’re managed very well and don’t mind taking some risks most of which have paid off. At the same time great marketing alone will not overcome the liability of the discounted luxury image in Germany where drivers are generally more knowlegeable and care about the origin of the car. Only time chips that away albeit slowly!
4) Germans tend to like precision, they love form, function, solidity, and perfect packaging. Look at any German car, and regardless of whether you like the design or not, you'll notice how the whole car tends to be well proportioned and balanced (i.e. tyre sizes seem the match the car, lines are clean, and there's nothing loose, hanging underneath the care. etc..) Look at the Lexus ES250 through ES330 models from early 90s through 2006 models as well as their Toyota clones Avalon, Camry etc.. you’ll notice how their small ty


TheGeniusTheGenius - 8/13/2006 5:23:41 PM
+2 Boost
Contd..

you’ll notice that their small tyres look like they belong on a smaller car. It gives the impression that all models share corolla tyres to save costs. They all had (take a look when you go out) that ugly exhaust pipe running from the left front to the muffler at the right rear, had a gap from the under carriage of at least 2-3 inches and looked like it was stuck with Bubble gum. After a few years they tended to wobble: note that this obvious packaging flaw was carried on for at least 10 years across no less than 6 different cars. Want, another example? Wheels! Lexus never seems to get this right, and the Germans never seem to get the choice of alloys on their cars wrong. I won’t even mention the feel of solidity in German cars and the quality of the metals used in the panels. Close the hoods and hit your knuckle on the side panels or roof and you’ll get it. Some of you who've been to Germany will understand that seemingly “little things” like the aforementioned won't help you sell cars there.
5) Lexus cars in the beginning had good ergonomics, and okay interiors, but were bland, boring to drive, lacked power, character and had ice-cream truck handling. Today, they have very good interiors, good power, but are still bland, boring, characterless, and are especially weak in the handling space. Tough to stack that against the German three: any model will give you what I can only describe as a bare minimum level of handling and character that will delight you. However, lets not forget that you can’t exploit all of those extras very easily in the US with the speed limits, relatively bad roads..etc.. which helps explain why a number of people in the US will rather save the money and buy the Lexus.
6) Lexus wants to compete in Europe, but lacks diesel models across the board. They need to throw in a number of diesels if it wants to compete seriously in Europe. In most countries 50% of the cars on the road are diesel. In Germany, I believe its closer to 60%

Quick Summary:
Lexus is designed more for US needs than German so it will have a difficult time competing with the Germans who clearly have a better styling, handling, performance package. However, I believe over time Lexus will catch up not just because of marketing, but because they will keep improving their cars
Germans who want Luxury cars want Luxury cars with brand heritage not Econobox knock-offs so Lexus’ image problem is the biggest handicap
It takes time to build Brand Image so over long period of time (not sure how long)
I expect Lexus to begin selling more cars in Europe. However, I doubt Lexus (in Germany) will ever be as highly sought after as the German three
Lexus deserves a lot of credit in the strides they’ve made and I believe they will continue to improve, and over time as the current generation ages, I don’t think they will be as discerning about the cars origin for obvious reasons. However, today you will find that few “very serious” Luxu


TheGeniusTheGenius - 8/13/2006 5:25:57 PM
+2 Boost
contd..
However, today you will find that few “very serious” Luxury car buyers will consider Lexus for the reasons I already alluded to. People who are agnostic to brand heritage or cannot afford the Germans will.
Hyundai that was a joke 10 years ago is now giving the Japanese brands a run for their money in the econobox space. In a few years, I bet they’ll launch Luxury models and I can bet that even current Lexus owners will want to snub them which will be very funny. (de ja vu??). However, in 100 years from now the new generation of car buyers will not car as much…




BMW530iBMW530i - 8/13/2006 5:44:52 PM
+1 Boost
Excellent post, TheGENIUS.


LexusLexus - 8/13/2006 5:53:08 PM
+1 Boost

We need to stop this shit because it getting nowwhere. If you love German Cars and hate Japanese cars, than buy a German Cars. If you love Japanese high end brands like Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti than buy them. Buy whatever make you happy. Both the German and Japanese has it strong and weak point.

Lexus


TheGeniusTheGenius - 8/13/2006 8:06:28 PM
+2 Boost
Sure, Zedani24, and Lexus met only 50% of their sales target in their home country Japan. Approx 10,000 sold even with a very low 20,000 forecasted for 5 or so months that were left in 2005. Even the Lexus execs were frustrated. Why would the Japanese who know most about Lexus and Toyota not want to touch them? The answer is actually the question "because they know the most about them ......" If someone sold you a K-mart suit today and tomorrow slaps an Armani label on it and sells it as an Armani jacket, would you buy it, especially if they told you what they were going to do? Clearly some people will as humans are as diverse as they come, but to most people it wouldn't make sense.. Mr Lexus, The issue is not whether they have strong points or not. In my post, I gave Lexus credit when deserved, but all I did was lay down facts to answer the questions posted. Dude, if they improved handling, styling and all their other shortcomings, I will still have an extremely difficult time getting over their lack of brand Heritage or the mental handicap of knowing what's really underneath.. Its like the 500lb cheerleader at a game. Even when you're not looking at her you know and feel she's there...


TheGeniusTheGenius - 8/13/2006 8:10:12 PM
+2 Boost
Huu76, if you don't understand what brand heritage is, then you're shouldn't even take part in this discussion. Real luxury buyers do! Read the K-mart example above..


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/13/2006 9:03:46 PM
+1 Boost
zedani24,

What did you say? I didn't understand you...


BMW530iBMW530i - 8/14/2006 5:00:46 AM
+1 Boost
zedani24,

The thing is that Lexus was made for "Americans" (America specs), and also what Toyota need or "did" to do before start selling the Lexus in Japan, they should stop selling the "Lexus with Toyota tags" on it, that’s one of the thing why "Lexus" isn't doing too well at home, people buying Toyota and putting the Lexus signs on them (two same cars/SUVs selling simultaneously).
--------------------------------------

Eh, the reason Lexus is flopping in Japan is because higher end Toyota's like the Celsior or that RX-looking SUV are rebadged as the Lexus LS and RX respectively. Why should one pay more for a "Lexus" when you can get the same car in Toyota form for much less?

Furthermore, they don't have smaller engines available for these cars. The Japanese have very strict emission and engine cc taxes. Big engines are expensive to maintain and provide fuel for.



So that lower the brand and the volume of branded Lexus sold there last year.
--------------------------------------

Huh!? What are you trying to say here? I see multiple grammatical errors here...



So Lexus is not doing too badly at home (was there 3 months ago and I did small checks for myself!). But there is room for improvements though.
--------------------------------------------

You assume that just becase YOU WENT to Japan and SAW some Lexus there that they're "not doing badly"? Thank God you don't work for my company! Look at facts and statistics, not your opinion. Lexus it tanking in Japan. A recent article on Businessweek even mentioned that wealthy Japanese look to BMW, Audi, Jaguar and Mercedes (even Cadillac) before they even consider a Lexus.


RupertRupert - 8/14/2006 8:29:23 AM
+1 Boost
hybrids are a complete waste of time.
hydrogen technology is the future, and bmw has been spending years researching it (i beleive they were one of the first to test it)
bmw use hydrogen fuelled 760s as their airport taxis, and they recently set a speed record for a hydrogen fuelled car.

and lexi are just boring to drive. no feel.


RupertRupert - 8/14/2006 8:03:35 PM
+1 Boost
fuel cell is a long way off, but hydrogen fuelled "ordinary" engines are close, say 3 years?
a 6.0 litre 7 series only emmiting water, that'll screw holier-than-thou prius owners


TheGeniusTheGenius - 8/15/2006 12:09:04 AM
+1 Boost
Thanks Efoxs4..Thought these guys knew what Heritage meant but they're still stuck on 0-60 and fuel mileage numbers. They just don't get it. Listen, when I shell out decent money for a car I want something more than the naked numbers..Ignoring design, handling, poise etc.. etc because Lexus lacks any..I want to enjoy the drive and the way the car talks to me (Lexus is mute for the record so people who buy Luxury Toyotas don't have a clue what I'm taking about). Listen, you can tune pretty much any wretched car (take the Corolla as an example) to give you Ferrari territory 0-60, but at the end of the day guess what, its still a freaking corolla!!! Its not just how quickly you get there, but "how" you get there, and what it feels like on your way there!! People who know cars will spend the extra $15-25K or so to get an A8, 7 series or S class because they're getting some intangibles that you don't see when you look at your EPA numbers.. Its the connection, dude, the connection! Most Imitation Luxury cars are mere transportation because that's all they can offer...get you from point A to B, and this is reflected in statements from the Luxury Imitation crew. Real car guys like Efoxs4, and BM530 clearly understand the impact a "real" car can have on something as basic as a 5 mile drive to pick up groceries!! The smile on their faces will tell you. And you're wondering why I will never buy Luxury knock-offs with the personality of a water pump??


lexusis350lexusis350 - 8/16/2006 2:24:54 PM
0 Boost
BMW530i:

Mercedes-Benz isn't even considered a luxury brand vehicle in a lot of countries. So if you ask someone in another country what a luxury car is, they wouldn't even think of Mercedes because in their own country, Mercedes is the equivilent of a Honda in this country. Lexus doesn't sell out like Mercedes does. They are luxury cars in every country they sell cars in.


lexusis350lexusis350 - 8/16/2006 2:28:13 PM
0 Boost
BMW530i:

And one more thing, Mercedes and BMW might do well in other countries, but Lexus does better than both of them in this country. Are you driving your Mercedes in Europe or the U.S. The clearer choice for a luxury vehicle is Lexus because they do well in your country. They are designed for what Americans want. They aren't sold in bulk for every other country in the world like Mercedes and BMW.


vcowmanvcowman - 8/22/2006 5:24:40 PM
+1 Boost
I think its perverse to compare bimmers to jeeps. nuff said.


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