Audi Feathers Ruffled Over Tesla Success

I would expect Audi-fanatics to get defensive about Tesla's sales but to see a comment from corporate Audi America, that seems childish. Having said that, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised given how Audi likes to poke fun at BMW with their ads from prior years.

The #1 cause of hearing loss is noise from your environment. You shouldn't have that problem with a Tesla.

Tesla sold 4750 Model S's last month? Really? Wow. That's actually pretty amazing, I never would have thought they'd sell that many in a month. That's a huge number considering the price of the car and the limited infrastructure for charging stations. I don't know if it's sustainable once all the preorders are filled and the "new" wears off but still that's very impressive.

More amazing is that Mini is almost equal in sales to Scion. So much for Scion capturing the "youth" market.

That was first quarter, not a month. Still not bad for the price. I'm waiting to see how the production version of the model X comes out.

Ah, so the original article is wrong, it was 4750 for the quarter, or 1583 per month. Still good, since it's higher than the 7-Series, S-class, A8, and XJ, and LS it competes with pricewise.

That's embarrassingly whiny. What are we, 9 year old boys at the school yard??

Suck it up Audi. That press release did absolutely NOTHING to make you look better or lessen Tesla's achievement, other than get your name in the paper in a less than flattering way. Does the heavy weight professional champion care if a light weight amateur is talking trash?

Yes, Audi has a penchant for resorting to playground antics sometimes, taking direct shots at their competitors on a consistent basis. BMW, Mercedes, and Audi have all been in Audi's advertising crosshairs. So, this latest reaction isn't a surprise. What Audi fails to acknowledge is that Tesla has just one model.

Predictably, the Audi haters have jumped to respond here, without thinking first about the facts.

It’s ignorant and ridiculous to compare the Tesla Model S with an Audi A8, Mercedes S Class or BMW 7 Series.
Audi A8 4.0T (A8 L 4.0T) vs Tesla Model S
- Length: A8's 202.2 in. (207.4 in.) vs Tesla's 196 in.
- Wheelbase: 117.8 in. (122.9 in.) vs 116.5 in.
- Rear leg room: 38.7 in. (42.9 in.) vs. 35.4 in.
- Rear headroom: 38.1 in. (39.1 in.) vs. 35.3 in.

The Tesla Model S is an overpriced mid-sized luxury sedan given its dimensions – it’s slightly shorter in length than a Hyundai Genesis and Acura RLX. So it’s competing with the Genesis, RLX, Audi A6/S7, BMW 5/6 Series, Mercedes E/CLS Class, Jaguar XF, Lexus GS, Infiniti M, etc. Indeed, the Audi A6/A7 and Hyundai Genesis have more rear passenger legroom, headroom and shoulder room than the Tesla has.

Audi sold 6,458 A6/A7 cars in the first four months of 2013, compared to Tesla’s 4,750 cars in the first quarter of 2013. In total Audi sold 34,186 cars in the first quarter this year. Unlike Audi, Tesla’s buyers get the incentive of a $7,500 Federal tax credit subsidizing their purchases. How many of those 4.750 Teslas would have been sold without this subsidy?

Audi has every right to correct an ignorant and incorrect headline such as CNNMoney.com’s "Tesla sales beating Mercedes, BMW and Audi."

It has nothing to do with being an "Audi hater". FYI - I am currently an Audi OWNER, and, mostly, proud of it. It's about reality. The price point for the Tesla is more commensurate with the A8/S/7. The starting price for the Tesla S is at least $15k more than that of most of the cars you insist it competes against. And that's for the battery that probably no one bought anyway. Realistically, most of the buyers opted for the more powerful batteries, which would price their cars about $25k more than your stated "competition".

That being said, if what you say is true, then it could be seen as more of an embarrassment for the Big Three that Tesla has a price tag similar to their big guns, but its size is more inline with their midsize offerings, yet it still outsold them. Even with the tax credit, the Tesla S is still priced above the midsize cars.

If you truly wanted to compare apples to apples in terms of size, price and performance, then the Tesla S would strictly compete directly with the S6/S7, E550/E63, 550i/M5. I have no idea what the breakdown in specific sales are for those "specialized" models, but something tells me that the Tesla still comes out on top..comfortably.

If this is really about reality, then...

You ignore reality when you incorrectly claim “(the Tesla’s) size is more in line with their midsize offerings, yet it still outsold them.” My previous post showed that Tesla did not outsell Audi’s A6/A7 (Germany’s Federal Motor Transport Authority KBA classifies the A6/A7 and their S/RS variants as one model line). Indeed, Tesla DID NOT ‘outsell’ Audi, BMW or Mercedes. In first quarter 2013: Mercedes sold 13,689 E-Class cars, BMW sold 12,139 5-Series cars and Audi sold 6,458 A6/A7 cars. Tesla sold 4,750 Model S cars in first quarter. It’s likely that some of those sales was due to factors such as: no need to buy gas, $7,500 Federal tax credit, new car on the block, pent-up demand by Tesla fans waiting for the introduction of Model S, other car manufacturers (and some reviewers like Consumer Reports) buying the Model S to analyze it.

You are trying to rationalize comparing a grapefruit against an orange. It’s rare to use price point to compare vehicles from different segments/classes in order to sensationalize some difference.

“If you truly wanted to compare apples to apples in terms of size, price and performance, then the Tesla S would strictly compete directly with the S6/S7, E550/E63, 550i/M5”. Uh, Nope. Because of how Tesla offers its products, the Tesla ‘Model S’ is one model line just like the Audi A6/A7 (and S/RS variants) is considered one model line by Germany’s Federal Motor Transport Authority (KBA). Other ‘conventional’ car manufacturers clearly distinguish their model variants by designation (e.g., A6 2.0 TFSI, A6 3.0 TFSI, S6, RS7) while Tesla uses a different way to distinguishes its model variants -- by ‘options’.

Tesla has three clear sub-models of the Model S, “each offering different range and performance characteristics” (Tesla's words):
- $62,400 ‘Tesla Model S with 60KW smaller battery’: 302 hp, 317 lbs-ft torque, 5.9 sec/14.2 sec acceleration, 120 mph top speed, 230 miles range
- $72,400 ’Tesla Model S with 85KW larger battery’: 362 hp, 325 lbs-ft torque, 5.4 sec/13.7 sec acceleration, 125 mph top speed, 300 miles range
- $87,400 ‘Tesla Model S Performance with 85KW larger battery’: also has upgraded drivetrain, interior and suspension, 416 hp, 443 lbs-ft torque, 4.2 sec/12.6 sec acceleration, 130 mph top speed, 300 miles range.
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options

“If you truly wanted to compare apples to apples” then only the overpriced but subsided ‘Tesla Model S Performance’ “would strictly compete directly with the S6/S7, E550/E63, 550i/M5”.

But something tells me you don’t know how many ‘Tesla Model S Performance’ sub-model cars were sold.

Read more carefully next time. when I stated that Tesla's size if more in line with their midsize offerings, yet the price is more inline with the large size cars, my "outsold them" comment was referring to the fact that the Tesla S outsold the larger cars.

Actually you need to read and understand much more carefully.

I had made three points earlier: First, it is wrong to categorize or compare the Tesla Model S as a large luxury sedan (e.g., Audi A8). The Tesla Model S is really a mid-sized luxury car (e.g., Hyundai Genesis, Acura /RLX, Audi A6/A7, BMW 5 Series, Merc E Class). Second, the Audi, BMW and Mercedes mid-sized luxury models clearly outsold the Tesla Model S in the first quarter, 2013.

In response, you said: “if what you say is true, then it could be seen as more of an embarrassment for the Big Three that Tesla has a price tag similar to their big guns, but its size is more inline with their midsize offerings, yet it still outsold them. Even with the tax credit, the Tesla S is still priced above the midsize cars.

I’ve already showed you why it is “ignorant and ridiculous” to compare the Tesla S with the large luxury sedans – yet you still insist on saying “the price is more inline with the large size cars, my "outsold them" comment was referring to the fact that the Tesla S outsold the larger cars." That’s poor logic: the mid-sized Audi RS7, BMW M5 and Merc E63 AMG also have prices that are more expensive than some of their larger cars (A8L, 750i, S550) yet the sales and performance of the RS7, M5 and E63 do not embarrass the larger cars. They are different model levels.

Furthermore, the Tesla website does not compare the Tesla Model S to a large luxury car like the BMW 7 Series, Audi A8 or Mercedes S Class. However, the Tesla website compared its Model S to a BMW 535i: “Compared to a vehicle like the BMW 535i, Model S will save its owners approximately $8,000 over five years in fuel costs alone.” Tesla knows that its car competes in the mid-sized luxury segment like the BMW 5 Series – and it compared the Model S with a cheaper model in the 5 Series line. Tesla cannot have it both ways – officially use the BMW 535i for real fuel savings data yet use the BMW 7 Series for its publicity.
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/facts

The three Tesla Model S sub-models are really comparable in real price, features and performance to mid-size luxury cars (e.g., Audi A6/A7/S6/S7). The first two Tesla S sub-models compare with the Audi A6 3.0 TFSI (starts from $50,400 to $56,950, depending on package) and/or the A7 3.0 TFSI (starts from $60,100 to $66,150). The third Tesla model compares with the Audi S6 (starts from $71,900) and/or the S7 (starts from 78,800). Just the Tesla’s tax incentives alone ($7,500 to $15,000) lower the Tesla’s base cost ($62,400 to $87,400) to the price level of the Audi A6/A7/S6/S7.

However, to an intelligent buyer, a Tesla Model S is really cheaper than the German mid-sized luxury cars. That’s because in comparing the true cost of buying and owning a Tesla versus a gas car, you have to deduct from the Tesla’s base prices the incentives and savings: tax incentives ($7,500 to $15,000), fuel savings ($15,000 over 5 years) and other savings (e.g., $5,000

you have to deduct from the Tesla’s base prices the incentives and savings: tax incentives ($7,500 to $15,000), fuel savings ($15,000 over 5 years) and other savings (e.g., $5,000 over 5 years ) from using an electric car rather than a gas car.

To a buyer, these $20,000 to $30,000 in real savings effectively lower the Tesla’s real prices ($62,400 to $87,400) to just $32,400/$42,400 to $57,400/$67,400 over a five year period.

The following shows how the Tesla’s base prices ($62,400 to $87,400) are effectively reduced by $20,000 to $30,000 due to the true cost of owning the Tesla instead of a gas car.
http://www.teslamotors.com/true-cost-of-ownership

- The base price of the three Tesla Model S sub-models: ‘S-60’ is $62,400 (60 kWh battery); ‘S-85’ is $72,400 (85 kWh battery); and ‘S-85P’ is $87,400 (85 kWh battery plus Performance).
http://www.teslamotors.com/models/options

- You deduct from the Tesla’s base prices the tax incentives for electric cars, which range from minimum $7,500 to $15,000, depending on state. The government tax incentives consists of federal tax credit ($7,500), possible state tax credit (e.g., West Virginia $7,500, California $2,500, Colorado $13,500) as well as possible state sales tax exemption (e.g., New Jersey, Washington, DC).

- You deduct from the Tesla’s base prices the fuel savings over the next five years of about $15,000 (or alternatively add fuel costs of $15,000 to the price of the Audi A6, BMW 5 Series and Merc E Class). Tesla estimates an average fuel cost savings of $261 per month (which amounts to $3,132 over 1 year or $15,660 over 5 years) from using your house electricity ($0.11 per kWh electricity price) instead of going to the gas station to fill up with premium gasoline ($4.90 gallon of premium gas, 20 mpg fuel economy) assuming you drive 15,000 miles per year. This is a much bigger incentive to buy a car than BMW offering free maintenance for four years (though it works similarly to motivate the buyer).

- You deduct other savings from using an electric car: e.g., the future cost of time saved over the next five years from not going each week to the gas station; being able to drive the Tesla on the carpool lane everyday in most states; less maintenance costs for electric vehicle; etc.

Audi has every right to be upset with the misleading article title. Although most people do understand that Audi is a much larger company than Tesla in terms of its model variants, revenue, etc. the headline is not correct.

Audi should have probably launched its rebuttal against the Bloomberg article titled, "Mercedes Leads BMW And Audi In April On Strength Of Entry Level Offerings" considering Mercedes-Benz is a closer competitor to Audi as a brand overall.

Even with Audi's rebuttal, it won't make any difference to the big picture, Audi sells many times more vehicles than Tesla and that isn't changing because of one misleading headline.

We should all thank Business Insider for its journalistic integrity and ability to reveal the big picture regarding Tesla's sales in comparison to Audi's and BMW's.

The article entitled, "Tesla is Not Really Outselling BMW, Audi" when searched through Google or, "How Tesla Sales Stack Up Against Four Large Luxury Automakers"

http://au.businessinsider.com/tesla-is-not-really-outselling-bmw-audi-2013-5

No surprise here, this is after all the most insecure and juvenile car company, based on their past ads. Also the most full of sh*t company too, based on their fact-twisting and word play. So, funny how theyre all butthurt when the same thing happens to THEM.

If they had a valuable name and could stand on their own, based on reputation and loyalty, then they wouldnt need to respond AT ALL, like other luxury bigboys. But since theyre still invisible and overlooked, despite their 'best' and most childish efforts, they have to stoop down and respond to anything that isnt praise.

poor journalism fishing for clicks as usual... the only reason the model s is being compared to s class, a8, and 7 series is because elon musk was defending its price against the s class. its pretty dumb, the car is clearly competing against a7/s7, 6 series gran coupe, and cl class.

It's interesting that several posters jumped to hypocritically criticize Audi's legitimate comments (and/or to vote down the comments of those agreeing with Audi's rebuttal).

Yet these same posters hypocritically choose not to criticize the Tesla company and those auto journalists/bloggers who have misleadingly/falsely portrayed that the (a) Tesla Model S is comparable to an Audi A8, Mercedes S Class, etc and (b) that "Tesla sales beating Mercedes, BMW and Audi." It's hypocritical not to apply one's principles and standards in a consistent way.

Tesla marketing is likely happy with such misperceptions, and probably helped generate such publicity. I wonder how much of Tesla's sales were due to these false perceptions influencing their car buyers?

Here's the interesting part. Audi is the only company that has published (to my knowledge) a response to the supposedly "misleading" headline. Why? Because Mercedes and BMW don't care and have confidence in their products and sales results. It's also called class and professionalism. They've manifested a long history of success that they don't feel defensive about. Makes one wonder why Audi feels the needs to be defensive, doesn't it? I'm not proposing any specific reason for it, just posing the question. It also makes you wonder why Audi is the only one of these 3 that consistently features advertisements denegrading the competition, by specific brand. The only other luxury brand that I know that has done that is Lexus, mainly with the RX. I cannot recall (though I could be wrong) ever seeing a BMW or Mercedes ad where its specific brand competition was presented in a negative light.

Headlines are rarely going to tell the full story. Educated people know that. Technically, this headline can be considered misleading. Technically, it can also be considered 100% correct. It's all about how you react to it.

To add:

When I was purchasing my Audi, the sales person was taking me around in the golf cart to show me the campus and service areas. He specifically stopped next to a Mercedes model at the adjacent dealership, pointed out what was wrong with the design, pointing out what he didn't like on the equipment list, then pointed out that the specific model had a fairly non-exemplary safety crash test recently. All unsolicited (and frankly, I didn't care because I wasn't shopping for that specific Mercedes). I guess it's just a company culture.

It’s incredible that you stereotype Audi (“I guess it's just a company culture”) jumping to conclusions from your one experience at an Audi dealership you claim to be “purchasing my Audi”. I can tell you far worse stories about BMW and Mercedes sales people – but I would not stereotype those companies based on my few personal experiences.

“I cannot recall... ever seeing a BMW or Mercedes ad where its specific brand competition was presented in a negative light.”
- BMW mailer: “What an Audi does well, a BMW does brilliantly”.
http://www.ausmotive.com/images2/BMW-mailer-01.jpg
- BMW advertising above an Audi dealership
http://motoringnbeyond.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/bmw-audi-ad-war.jpg
- Another BMW put down ad.
http://blog.rickbannerman.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/BMW-1.jpg
- In 2010, BMW subsidiary Mini USA took out a full page ad in The New York Times to challenge Porsche to a race. (The invitation was turned down.)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_-C5wG-lKiWQ/TA9lJkpIwuI/AAAAAAAAB4E/lOPb_gArOSg/s1600/miniVSporsche.jpg

You make a lot of assumptions and jump to conclusions.

You also assume that “Mercedes and BMW don't care and have confidence in their products and sales results… they don't feel defensive about.” You simply don’t know what goes on in the minds of BMW and Mercedes management and what counter-measures were or will be taken by them – there are many ways to skin a cat. And you jump to conclusions about Audi based on a blog post on the Audi USA website posted by some lowly-paid Audi employee (it does not mean that Audi management approved the posting, since removed).

Regardless, Audi had every right to respond to the headline: “Tesla sales beating Mercedes, BMW and Audi”
http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/13/autos/tesla-sales-bmw-mercedes-audi/index.html

Experts such as advertisers, publicists and newspaper publishers know that headlines are the sound-bites burned into people’s memories. Most people don’t bother to read the full story. Intelligent people would reach only one conclusion: Tesla sales are beating Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

Such a conclusion is highly inaccurate.

So Tesla sold 4,750 cars in the first quarter? Big deal. 3,689,089 cars were sold in the USA, first quarter. Tesla would have been only Number 33 among 36 auto brands – i.e., among the bottom 5 of those 36 brands. Mercedes is No. 16 (73,021), BMW No. 17 (64,902) and Audi No. 22 (34,186 cars sold). Porsche, Lexus, Cadillac, Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln, Volvo all sold more cars than Tesla.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/04/march-2013-usa-auto-sales-brand-rankings.html

More Hyundai Genesis (8,113) and Cadillac XTS (7,130), Lexus ES (16,801), Audi A6/A7 (6,458), BMW 5 Series (12,139) and Mercedes E Class (13,689) were sold than Tesla Model S (4,750).

Furthermore, the sales of the Tesla Model S did not seem to negatively the sales of most major large-sized luxury cars (except BMW) in first quarter 2013 compared to first quarter 2012. In a

Furthermore, the sales of the Tesla Model S did not seem to negatively the sales of most major large-sized luxury cars (except BMW) in first quarter 2013 compared to first quarter 2012. In a relatively poor economy, this suggests that Tesla S customers were not customers looking for large luxury sized cars such as the Audi A8, Merc S Class or Lexus LS. It should have decimated the sales of the A8, S Class, Lexus LS, Cadillac XTS and BMW 7-Series had 4,750 customers switched to buying Tesla.
- Audi A8 (1,462, +37.3%)
- Mercedes-Benz S-Class (3,077, +20.2%)
- BMW 7-Series (2,338, -30.8%, however April sales up 68.8%)
- Lexus LS (2,860, +72.0%)
- Cadillac XTS (7,130, NA)

On the other hand, the sales of most major mid-sized luxury cars (BMW 5 Series, Mercedes E Class, Lexus GS, Infiniti M, Volvo S80, Cadillac CTS, Porsche Panamera) decreased in the first quarter 2013 compared to 2012 (except for Audi A6, Jaguar XF and BMW 6 Series, which increased). This may indicate that the Tesla Model S had taken sales from cars in the mid-sized luxury segment.

As well, part of Tesla sales may also be new (pent-up) demand in the market for the only viable luxury electric available. For this, such customers were willing to pay a premium just as they pay a premium for the Audi RS6 or BMW M5 -- as well as a premium for perceived savings in operational costs over the lifetime of the Tesla.

Audi whines, BMW and Mercedes yawn, nothing new here.

Audi is such a pretentious brand, their whole corporate culture is a big turn off IMO.

You would not understand pretentiousness if you looked in a mirror.

Audi was voted Europe's top employer and Germany's most admired company. Obviously there is something to Audi's corporate culture that intelligent people admire -- except its rivals.
http://3d-car-shows.com/2013/audi-is-europes-top-employer/