Motor Trend Comparison Test: 2013 Audi S4 vs. BMW 335i xDrive vs. Cadillac ATS vs. Lexus IS350 AWD vs. Volvo S60 T6!

While the BMW 335i xDrive won this comparison test, BMW's excellence over the competition is certainly not a given anymore:

"Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed. Said Lago, "I don't like the steering." What's wrong with it? Like the S4s, it's detached. "Steering actually has some feel. Not a lot, but some," he continued. Adding all that AWD hardware sure didn't help the 335ix out. Kong noted that the BMW "feels ready to oversteer." Its ride was the softest of the group.

The Audi S4 matched the newer BMW 335i xDrive to 60 mph and was faster through the quarter-mile in terms of speed. The Audi S4 had a shorter braking distance from 60 mph and lapped the Motor Trend Figure Eight faster.. All this from the Audi S4 that costs $3,000 less and is 6 years old.

It looks like BMW is doing the following and barely nudged out the Audi S4. Given that an all-new more aggressive, lighter and faster A4 is coming out next year in 2014, BMW will likely be resigned to second place behind the upcoming all-new Audi S4.

German I love the back arguments when BMW bests your beloved Audi in a Comparison test. Another New 3-series win. F30 is doing quite well in the comparison tests even though the steering is not as tight and sharp as the previous generation.

"Despite how bone-deep ugly it is on the outside, the little Lexus surprised us all."

Love that line.

From Motor Trend

5th Place: Volvo S60

4th Place: Cadillac ATS

3rd Place: Lexus IS 350

2nd Place: Audi S4

1st Place: BMW 335i xdrive

And once again subjectiveness screws up the ranking. The Volvo consistently placed 2nd or 3rd in most of the objects, including being the 3rd fastest and tied for most fuel efficient, but was dinged for: "...failed to get anyone's pulse racing." I was glad to finally see a Volvo in the comparison, but if you're going to be subjective about your rankings, why bother to include any numbers or tests?

Well done. The 335 was the most well rounded car, it had the best fuel economy, second lightest, matched the S4 for acceleration(within a tenth all the way to 90), and tied for the fastest car with 8 inch wide tires around the figure 8 (S4 had half inch wider 8.5 inch tires on all four wheels so obviously more lateral/braking grip). Once the M335 comes out it should take the performance/handling envelope that little bit further...this is the car I'm excited for!!

Finally the 3 series was tested with a decent tire! Personally I would opt for a lighter RWD 335 (with non run-flats) which would be about another 170 lighter (3,530 lbs). That would improve the economy/ performance & handling even more. A 360hp m335 would be nice though, I read it may debut this fall : )..I Also agree with Jeffy as I would also like to see the Volvo place better as it is good overall package IMO, but all the cars are honestly really good so it obviously comes down to preference.

Great for BMW and where is Mercedes ?

I don't believe the comparable C-Class, C350, is available with 4Matic, only the C300.

Good for Audi and BMW. Proving, still, that as all-around cars, they are still on top, despite some negative criticisms of recent models.

Motor Trend Forum: Ask the MT Editor

Q: "Which one you like better: S4 or 335?"

MT Editor Scott Evans: "That's actually difficult to say. I like a lot about the S4, but it has some significant drawbacks. I dislike a lot about the current 3 Series, but it has a lot of strengths.
Despite my reservations about steering feel, I think I'd personally take the S4. I like the sound, the acceleration and the corner-exiting grip better. I also like the design better, though I know a lot of people find it bland."
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9462442/the-general-forum/ask-the-editor-audi-s4/index.html

The new lighter, faster, better A4/S4 and A3/S3 sedans in 2014 will displace the BMW 3 series.

Clearly BMW's strategy is to sway gullible testers by giving them cars loaded with options. The BMW 335i was loaded with $15,785 of options (hmmm, the BMW M6 test car was loaded with even more options -- $25,000 of options) -- obviously BMW is desperate to win these tests yet has no confidence in its base cars. The Audi had only 8,725 of options -- about half the cost of the BMW's options. Audi might possibly have won the test had it provided a test car optioned with its highest quality interior, better steering (e.g., dynamic steering, like on the RS6), better suspension (e.g., sports suspension plus with dynamic ride control like on the RS7).

The S4 was 251 lbs heavier and $3,240 cheaper than the 335i, yet, as German Nut said, "The Audi S4 matched the newer BMW 335i xDrive to 60 mph and was faster through the quarter-mile in terms of speed. The Audi S4 had a shorter braking distance from 60 mph and lapped the Motor Trend Figure Eight course faster."

Not surprisingly, the BMW-biased MT testers somehow managed to improve on the 335i's first test numbers.... whereas the S4's first test numbers remain the same. On first test results, the S4 was faster in figure 8, faster to 60 mph, faster to quarter mile, even better braking.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1202_2012_bmw_335i_first_test/

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1307_2013_audi_s4_first_test/

Even the 2009 Audi S4 Avant wagon was significantly faster than the new 2012 335i on the Sachsenring track.

When you look at the new 335i's track numbers you realize that it is as slow or slower than the previous generation 335i.

No wonder BMW had to stuff the 335 with over $15 thousand of options to make the car drive faster and look better. The options on the BMW increased its curb weight by 145 lbs from the first test... and somehow made the car look better and drive faster and brake better in the comparison test -- otherwise the S4's numbers would have been even more superior.

psst yet the S4 was still bested. I love the ridiculous arguments you have for every article by BMW, Lexus or anything but Audi. Didn't we just go through this with the M3.

" BMW simply didn't do enough to clearly make the 335i xDrive the best car in test and for that it will pay a heavy price once this existing 335i xDrive is easily eclipsed by the upcoming, all-new Audi S4.""

Yet the truth is that the BMW was a better overall car. Yet I love the 'Wait til Next Year'... What have you done this year? bested by the 3-series again. Just like your beloved S5 has been beat up by a 5 year old M3.

BMW is setting itself up to constantly lose comparison tests once the competition comes out with its newer models. The brand-new BMW 335i xDrive only matched the 6 year-old Audi S4's performance figures and won due to the fact that it was newer, had a more updated interior, and achieved slightly better fuel economy.

Unfortunately for BMW, the 2015 Audi S4 will be more aggressive in appearance, even faster, newer, have a completely re-designed and updated interior and better fuel economy than the existing model.

Given that the BMW 335i xDrive only matched the 6 year-old S4's performance figures shows just how much of a let down BMW's performance claim has become.

BMW no longer goes beyond the competition, it simply matches Audi's 6 year-old S4 and waits patiently to get handily beat by the new 2015 Audi S4.

What a shame

"BMW no longer goes beyond the competition, it simply matches Audi's 6 year-old S4 and waits patiently to get handily beat by the new 2015 Audi S4"

Same thing you said about the beloved S5 which has been handily bested by the M3. Then you said the RS5 would destroy the M3 only to get bested again. Actually, the performance of the 335xi is pretty amazing considering it is less powerful than the S4. Yet better fuel economy, more space and from what they considered a better interior and the I-drive was the best around

Since when does the Audi S5 compete with the BMW M3? The S5 would compete with the 335i xDrive coupe (now known as the upcoming 435i xDrive). The Audi S5 starts at $10,000 less than the BMW M3. Not to mention the two cars don't come close to the same horsepower figures.

"Actually, the performance of the 335xi is pretty amazing considering it is less powerful than the S4. Yet better fuel economy, more space and from what they considered a better interior and the I-drive was the best around"

That's BMW's exact problem. The 335i xDrive achieves 2 mpg better than the Audi S4 in both city and highway, has slightly more room, a better interior and a better infotainment system with its iDrive.

The fuel efficiency, interior room, quality of interior and infotainment system are categories that Audi has built its reputation on as best-in-class for many successive model generations.

You can bet that the upcoming Audi S4 will be significantly more fuel efficient than the current generation, its interior will be larger, the interior quality will once again rise to the top of the class and the MMI infotainment system will equal or surpass iDrive.

BMW used to be the undisputed performance leader but that is no longer the case. Instead, BMW excelled in areas such as fuel efficiency, interior room, interior quality and quality of infotainment system. Audi constantly beats the competitions in the areas that gave the BMW 335i xDrive the win and you can bet Audi will bring even better performance figures and an interior that once again trumps BMW's in 2014.

The BMW 335i xDrive will not be able to rely on its performance figures or fuel efficiency, interior room, interior quality or superiority of infotainment system.

BMW4me4ever, you must be in a daze as you're replying to German Nut's comments on my comment thread... instead of German Nut's comment thread.

BMW4me4ever: "I love the ridiculous arguments you have..."
For your customers' sake, you should check the facts of your sales spiel with me first :)

BMW4me4ever: "psst yet the S4 was still bested."
Do you really believe yourself? Bested by what? The 335's younger age, interior, fuel efficiency, safety rating, comfort, no-glaring-faults-but-master-of-nothing-in driving -- if you actually believe that this is what makes BMW the better overall car, then you're admitting the BMW no longer makes "ultimate driving machines".

This is what MT said the S4 has done this year, despite being in the last year of its life: "The Audi S4 is the numbers champ of this test... The S4 was the runaway champ around our figure-eight loop, laying down a world-class time of 24.9 seconds. Much of that was the S4's seven-speed S Tronic transmission. From Ayapana: "Hands down, the best transmission in the group. It's like it has precognition... Evans liked the A4's big trunk and proclaimed that, for sporty driving, the Audi had the best seats here... Muscular, brutish, and confidence-inspiring, the S4 is let down by its age... what an impressive athlete." Hmmm, sounds like the S4 is closest to the ultimate driving machine :)

what did they say in final placing of the Audi?

" The Audi, while faster than it needs to be, is starting to feel a bit long in the tooth. We've seen the interior; we're getting bored with the styling; and we're totally indifferent at this point to its numb steering and FWD bias. As Angus MacKenzie often states, RWD is the proper way to build a car."

"2nd Place: Audi S4
Muscular, brutish, and confidence-inspiring, the S4 is let down by its age and a slightly underwhelming driving experience. Still, what an impressive athlete"

*** basically they are saying that the steering is numb and not so good overall driving experience. It is like a one trick pony for Sunday driving yet not for a real world everyday use ............ enough said...

What did they say in the conclusion of the BMW?

"This leaves the BMW and its combination of luxury, comfort, and curb appeal. There's a reason every other car in the segment is measured against the 3 Series. Even with AWD, it remains the benchmark."

"1st Place: BMW 335i xdrive
Featuring the best combination of everything, the latest 3 Series just doesn't have any glaring flaws. It's still the master of the segment it created."

** Basically the BMW is the 'Benchmark' and everything else is still trying to follow. It is the best overall package that offers great performance while still able to drive it everyday of the week and provide a great value to the consumer. Having my cake and eating it too.

You want to bring up performance... What performance item does the Audi have that no other car in the test has? That is the adaptive sport rear differential will have a major impact in the handling of a car as it allow the driver to exit corners at a much higher rate of speed. It basically acts like LSD that works separately and together for the rear wheels. BMW offers this on our X6 and provides a huge advantage over the X5 when it comes to handling prowess. A S4 without that would get dominated.

BMW4me4ever: ""*** basically they are saying that the steering is numb and not so good overall driving experience. It is like a one trick pony for Sunday driving yet not for a real world everyday use ............ enough said.."

Using your words, what did MT say about the BMW? "Oddly, the BMW features the laziest handling here. As you're probably aware, BMW has been drifting away from its Ultimate Driving Machine image for several years now, moving more toward a techno/luxury future anchored by ferocious straight-line speed. Said Lago, "I don't like the steering." What's wrong with it? Like the S4s, it's detached. "Steering actually has some feel. Not a lot, but some," he continued. Adding all that AWD hardware sure didn't help the 335ix out. Kong noted that the BMW "feels ready to oversteer." Its ride was the softest of the group."

Moral: before you throw stones at the Audi, look at your own BMW's limitations.

BMW4me4ever: "This leaves the BMW and its combination of luxury, comfort, and curb appeal. There's a reason every other car in the segment is measured against the 3 Series. Even with AWD, it remains the benchmark... It's still the master of the segment it created"

This is the Luxury SPORTS sedan segment -- yet the biased MT reviewer mentioned the non-sporty aspects (luxury, comfort, and curb appeal) but not the sportiness of the BMW, lol. How can it possibly be the master of the Luxury SPORTS sedan segment?

This is not a 'Luxury Sedans' test from ten years ago when an all-round comfortable Lexus ES 330 might have won based on luxury, comfort, high-quality interior, quietness, reliability, fuel efficiency, safety, best overall value. And yet MT gave its 'Luxury Sports sedans' top ranking to the BMW 335ix -- largely for its younger age, interior, luxury, comfort, curb appeal, fuel economy, safety rating, no-glaring-faults-but-master-of-nothing-driving.

How much of the BMW's 'objective' measurable scores as well as subjective scores (interior quality, luxury, comfort) were attributable to BMW's almost $16,000 options (e.g., better Bridgestone Potenza S001 tires, yellow brake calipers, interior options)? No other test car came padded with so much options -- and very few car buyers would spend $16,000 on options. Would the base 335 (without options) have received such high marks for its luxury, comfort and interior? [BMW has been supplying car mags tests with highly-loaded cars, no doubt to influence testers into giving the BMW cars higher scores than their base cars would have received. E.g., the $115,000 BMW 650i was also fully-loaded with $25,000 of options in MT's "Comparison: Audi S7 vs. BMW 650i Gran Coupe vs. Mercedes-Benz CLS550"].

Audi's options do not amount to $16,000 of fluff. At the very least get the $1,400 S-Tronic transmission and $1,100 sports rear differential with Audi Drive Select. About $8,700 of options gets the very best out of the S4: Seven-speed S-Tronic transmission for $1,400; Driver Assist packa

Audi's options do not amount to $16,000 of fluff. At the very least get the $1,400 S-Tronic transmission and $1,100 sports rear differential with Audi Drive Select. About $8,700 of options gets the very best out of the S4: Seven-speed S-Tronic transmission for $1,400; Driver Assist package (Audi drive select with rear sports differential, dynamic steering, Audi adaptive cruise control, color driver information system) for $3,250, Dynamic steering and adaptive damping suspension for $1,250, Fine Nappa leather seating surfaces for $1,250, interior decorative inlays for $750 and 19" wheels with summer tires for $800 (or, better still, buy your own wheels with the very best performance tires).

putting too many options on the car is a RISK rather than an advantage. you forget that part of the subjective rating is VALUE for the money. that puts a $61,000 BMW at a DISADVANTAGE. plus i don't hear them commenting much at all on the fancy options. try again.

"VALUE for the money" was a measure, but Motor Trend rationalized the BMW by stating "sure, each car had a superfluous option or two, but we all believed they reflect the reality of a spendy segment." Huh? The BMW had $16,000 options on a $62,000 BMW 335 -- you can buy a 550i for $62,000 -- yet the MT reviewers claim that $16,000 options reflect the spending realities of the 3 Series segment... thus turning a fully loaded car into an advantage. Very, very few car buyers in this lower-end luxury segment would spend $16,000 on options. MT bent over backwards to give the test to BMW.

enthusiastx11: "i don't hear them commenting much at all on the fancy options. try again."
Other than saying "do you really need the $3040 yellow brake calipers" (which probably helped improve the heavier 335ix braking distance over the lighter 335i in another MT test), MT did not mention what the remaining $13,000 of options were. Obviously this car was fully loaded. In their comparo of the BMW 650, they went gaga on at least three options (e.g., seating materials, B&O sound system, etc.) without mentioning these were part of the car's $25,000 options.

As wise BMW drivers love to say, the proof is on the track.

The latest BMW 335i and facelifted Audi S4 lapped only one track: Germany's Hockenheim track (which co-hosts the German F1 Grand Prix):
2012 facelift Audi S4 was 1:16.46
2009 pre-facelift Audi S4 was 1:16.70
2012 BMW 335i was 1:17.80
2011 BMW 550i was 1:16.50
2007 M6 Cabrio was 1:16.50
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/hockenheim_short.html

At Sachsenring:
2009 pre-facelift Audi S4 was 1:42.39
2009 pre-facelift Audi S4 Avant was 1:43.83
2012 BMW 335i was 1:45.08
2010 BMW 335is M Sport was 1:44.28
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/sachsenring.html

At Virginia Raceway:
2009 pre-facelift Audi S4 was 3:10.80
2012 BMW 335i was 3:13.20
2010 BMW 335is M Sport was 3:13.80
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html

In ALL three tracks lapped by the latest 2012 BMW 335i, even the original pre-facelift Audi S4 was faster. In the only track lapped by both the latest 2012 BMW 335i and facelifted 2012 Audi S4, the S4 was faster.

There is no doubt that the S4 is the superior car on track. Yet the biased Motor Trend testers were unable to find performance gaps between the S4 and 335i in comparison tests that they were able to find in individual tests. That's fishy.

Bimmer fans love to claim that their cars are proven on track... even though no independent driver has broken the 8-minute barrier at the Nurburgring track on any regular production BMW (the 2011 M5 was driven by a BMW factory driver; the very expensive 2003 M3 CSL and 2010 M3 GTS are both limited edition M3 with reduced weight and more power)
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

The poor, shameless Bimmer boys who vote down the rational posts of German Nut and myself... must hurt to vote down the truth, lol.

Oops, at Hockenheim it was the 2011 BMW 650i coupe that was 1:16.50 (not the 550i)

Truth... I love the truth comment. The S4 is quicker than the 335i on a race track. So that is your argument for what exactly? This is an overall comparison not only about how the cars perform, yet how they manage real driving scenarios in regards to fuel economy, comfort level, features. The BMW like it or not was the best in the test.

This being said, Kudos for BMW and Audi for blowing the doors off the competition. Very surprised that Lexus & ATS are so sluggish in comparison as they are the Both Brand New this year. That doesn't bode well for either car.

BMW4me4ever: The BMW was BARELY the best in the Luxury Sport Sedans test because of what exactly? The 335's younger age, interior, fuel efficiency, safety rating, comfort, no-glaring-faults-but-master-of-nothing-driving.

This is the Luxury SPORT Sedans test not the Entry-Level Luxury Sedan test. If you actually believe that, for a Luxury Sports Sedan, what matters most is what the BMW won on (fuel economy, comfort level, features) rather than how these cars performed (including on the racetrack)... then it's obvious that making the "ultimate driving machines" is no longer important to BMW.

"This is the Luxury SPORT Sedans test not the Entry-Level Luxury Sedan test"

Why only capitalize sport, and not the word in front. It a LUXURY SPORT sedan test. They have to be able to do BOTH well, and it sounds like the 3 series excels at both.

I capitalized the sport in 'Luxury SPORT Sedans' because that's what distinguishes this sub-segment from the rest of the larger 'Luxury Sedans' segment it is part of. Disproportionate weight was given to the 'luxury' aspects of the equation at the expense of the 'sport' aspects.

In the larger compact luxury car segment (or entry-level luxury car or compact executive car)

- Does the BMW 335 offer the best luxury? No.

- Does the BMW 335 offer the best sportiness? No

"I capitalized the sport in 'Luxury SPORT Sedans' because that's what distinguishes this sub-segment from the rest of the larger 'Luxury Sedans' segment it is part of. Disproportionate weight was given to the 'luxury' aspects of the equation at the expense of the 'sport' aspects."

Im glad that what YOU chose to do, but the 3 series won b/c it was the BEST BALANCE of LUXURY & SPORT. The 3 series matches 97% of the S4's performance, while also being a better luxury car.

MercedesSL: You are assuming that MT's rationalization that the 335 is the BEST BALANCE of LUXURY & SPORT is correct.
Uh, nope. Your opinions and MT's views are superseded by the views of the Germans -- they are the best makers, testers and drivers of cars in this compact luxury sports sedan segment.
See my post below about the three Auto Motor und Sport comparos between the S4 and 335 -- some of their conclusions contradict the questionable Motor Trend conclusions.

Audi's S4 proves just how competent Audi has become in making performance cars. The only real criticisms the Moor Trend editors had regarding the S4 was that it was old, it's interior was the same as all other Audi models albeit of excellent quality and that the steering lacked feedback.

Performance wise it tied the 335i xDrive to 60 mph, through the quarter-mile, lapped the figure-eight track faster, pulled more grip and braked from 60 mph shorter.

This just proves that the upcoming all-new 2015 Audi S4 due out next year will take the segment to a new level and once again defeat the 335i xDrive. The new S4 will obviously not be old, will have a completely re-designed interior and it' will weigh less. The new S4 will once again rule the segment.

After having 6 years to match the existing S4 in performance, BMW barely achieved its goal. It just shows that BMW is only barely able to win a comparison test that it should have had no trouble with.

BMW simply didn't do enough to clearly make the 335i xDrive the best car in test and for that it will pay a heavy price once this existing 335i xDrive is easily eclipsed by the upcoming, all-new Audi S4.

haahahahaha. yeah...a volvo over the 3-series. as common as a corolla? didn't realize bmw is selling 50,000/month in the US.

For real, a123. At this point a BMW only catches any attention if it's a 6 series or an M3. The rest blend in entirely. Heck even the new Accord stands out more to me. Ok so it's pretty fast in a straight line. Ok but so is any muscle car. I think I would really like BMWs (and even Audis) a lot more if they felt more exclusive, but right now the streets almost seem oversaturated with them and it sadly kills any desire to own one myself. An M, ok I can go for that (well I can't afford it but if I could I would consider it). But to be stand out from your upper middle class coworkers the way to go is going to be the next Lexus F coupe or the ATS-V or even a baby Jag or something along those lines.

good for BMW but they need to redesign 3 series already. The current its ugly. The 3 series of old days is gone. Now its soft with numb steering and ugly face. However none of other cars in this comparo are any better. Sad days for enthusiasts. Maybe M3/4 but this face that only mother can love.

Comparing their track laptimes, it is obvious that the current generation F30 BMW 335i has slower laptimes or the same laptimes as the previous generation E90 335i (2005 to 2011).
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/hockenheim_short.html
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/sachsenring.html

The fact that the outgoing S4 (both facelifted 2012 and even pre-facelifted 2009) has significantly superior laptmes to the 2012 335i on the every track that the 2012 335i has lapped casts doubt on the validity of the Motor Trend tests. Obviously the S4 is a better performance car than the 335i.

It's obvious that the current sixth generation F30 BMW 335i does not have any real performance improvements over the fifth generation E90 335i, just mainly cosmetic changes like interior, body shape and options like yellow brake calipers (yet the S4's brakes are still better).

BMW has been making a lot of money off customers who bought the new 335i because they have bought into the BMW myth -- while BMW makes more profit having saved on the development costs of performance improvements.

This does not bode well for the upcoming 4 series or M3.

BMW could have easily given the 335 wider tires, a double clutch, and stiffer suspension, but they are positioning the standard 335 to appeal to a broader market. The result is the 335 matched the S4 for acceleration, got 2 mpg better, and was the more comfortable/practical car. With that said BMW does have upgrades in store for the f30, a n55 replacement is around the corner with more power and torque (340hp, 360lb-ft rumored), and also an m performance model is expected (M335) which will be the true competitor to the S4.

mclaren428: This is the Luxury SPORT Sedans test... not the 'Broad-Appeal Luxury Sedan test'. You rationalizations (fuel economy, comfort, practical) to accept the 335's runner up in performance results are not relevant to a Luxury Sports Sedan test.

"the 335 matched the S4 for acceleration"?? For a luxury sports car, what's more important than straight-line acceleration is the car's performance on MT's Figure 8 course. Indeed, this is this test that MT uses to gauge the quality of a car's handling: "straight-line acceleration is great and all, but those who really love driving know our figure eight is how we swiftly evaluate a vehicle’s handling potential". The S4 lapped the Figure 8 course at an average of 24.9 sec @ 0.78 g -- that's near supercar numbers. The MT testers know full well the importance of the Figure 8 results to the Luxury Sports segment, yet chose to close both eyes to the importance of the S4's success on this measure.
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/the-10-best-handling-cars-motor-trend-tested-in-2011-148669.html
Follow us: @MotorTrend on Twitter | MotortrendMag on Facebook
http://wot.motortrend.com/the-10-best-handling-cars-motor-trend-tested-in-2011-148669.html
http://wot.motortrend.com/10-worst-handling-cars-tested-2010-20318.html

What's more important than slightly wider tires is the performance ability of the tires. BMW gave the 335i the Bridgestone Potenza S001 tires, which are better performance tires than the S4's ContiSportContact 3 (comparable tires to the S001 would be ContiSportContact 5P, even better would be tires like Michelin Pilot Sport 3).

How does a dual-clutch transmission not "appeal to a broader market"?? If you ask 100 dorks if they prefer the 335's 8-speed automatic or the S4's 7-speed dual-clutch transmission... 90% of them would choose the dual-clutch within five seconds of their first acceleration onto the on-ramp to the highway. The sensations are mildly addicting. The primary reason BMW stuck with the cheaper 8-speed auto was because they could get away with the cost cutting (since BMW customers tend not to question what's on their BMWs).

If Audi wanted to give the S4 better suspension, it could have offered the option of the magnetorheological suspension that's similar to the Caddy ATS (Audi offered Audi Magnetic Ride on the R8 and TT).

Bottom line, the 335 has not distinguished itself as a sports sedan. At Sachsenring, the 2009 pre-facelift Audi S4 as well as S4 Avant were faster than the previous generation 2010 BMW 335is M Sport as well as the current generation 2012 BMW 335i! At Virginia Raceway, the 2009 pre-facelift Audi S4 was faster than the previous generation 2010 BMW 335is M Sport as well as the current generation 2012 BMW 335i!

I guess, according to your 'old Lexus' logic, that BMW had also positioned the 335is M Sport to appeal to the rest of the broader market that they did not capture with the previous generation 335i. If BMW truly was the luxury sports

If BMW truly was the luxury sports car leader, it would have responded to the 2010 BMW 335is M Sport being bested by the S4 by making the small performance improvements necessary for the 335i to compete with the S4. Instead BMW simply recycled the 335i but compensated with a new skin, more comfort, better features.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/sachsenring.html
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/virginia_international_raceway.html

The N55 engine replacement and M335 would have to deal with the next generation Audi S4 -- which is likely to be significantly lighter, faster and more agile than this outgoing S4. If the 2010 BMW 335is M Sport was unable to respond to this S4, it does not bode well for M335 against the next S4.

"How does a dual-clutch transmission not "appeal to a broader market"?? If you ask 100 dorks if they prefer the 335's 8-speed automatic or the S4's 7-speed dual-clutch transmission... 90% of them would choose the dual-clutch within five seconds of their first acceleration onto the on-ramp to the highway."

The 8 speed appeals to a broader market b/c ...er It has an extra gear ratio over the DCT which aid in the superior fuel economy, along with the tire width. Maybe 90% of Canadian teenagers would choose the DCT, but a lot of people who buy these cars are well you know mature..in there 30's, 40's, 50's ect..So im pretty sure they can deal with a tenth of a second/later G for a better overall package. Also the best form of the 335 is RWD which BMW is know for. A RWD 335 would get Even better economy, while handling better due to less weight (around 400lb less then the S4). Also I'm fairly confident the M335 will address the need for those wanting the sportiest 3 series this side of the M3, and do just fine against the B9 S4.

Listen carefully... ZF will tell you that its DCT is more fuel efficient than its 8-speed transmission.

Who is ZF? The BMW 335's 8-speed automatic transmission is made by ZF (they also have a 9-speed). The Porsche PDK dual-clutch transmission is also made by ZF.

Car and Driver's technical dept: "ZF says the 8HP (8-speed automatic transmission) is six percent more ­efficient than the outgoing sixer (ZF-6 speed transmission) and nearly as efficient as a dual-clutch automated manual, which ZF also produces."
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/zfs-8-speed-automatic-transmission

http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/innovations/8hp_automatic_transmissions/8hp_automatic_transmission.html

http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/products/product_range/cars/efficiency/7_speed_dual_clutch_1/7_speed_dual_clutch_3.html

It's amusing you don't know what you're talking about since 90% of Canadian teenagers and 90% of mature car buyers of luxury sports cars probably prefer the McLaren MP4-12C's DCT for its fuel economy and smooth, creamy, quick, refined shifting over an 8-speed transmission.


mclaren428: "I'm fairly confident the M335 will address the need for those wanting the sportiest 3 series this side of the M3, and do just fine against the B9 S4."

I'm fairly confident you're just speculating on hope and assumptions.

Thats all great, but AWD 335 still gets better fuel economy, and the RWD version is even better yet thanks in part to the 8 speed.

A car buyer who can afford to buy a $62,000 BMW 335ix with $16,000 of options is not going to care much about the 2 mpg he saves on the BMW. In any case the next gen A4/S4's lighter frame and latest technologies will probably raise the bar on fuel economy.

"thanks in part to the 8 speed"? A dual-clutch transmission is even more fuel efficient.

Riiight b/c everyone will get 16K worth of options..And the RWD 335 will get even BETTER fuel economy.

""thanks in part to the 8 speed"? A dual-clutch transmission is even more fuel efficient."

I think your missing the point the 8 speed has shorter gear ratios, than the 7 speed which allows for the superior fuel economy. Audi RS6 uses a ZF 8 speed also.

Actually, you are missing the point.
I provided the evidence that a dual-clutch transmission is more fuel efficient than an 8 speed automatic transmission. "ZF says the 8HP (8-speed automatic transmission) is... nearly as efficient as a dual-clutch automated manual, which ZF also produces." That means that the 7 speed DCT is more fuel efficient thanan 8 speed automatic transmission. To understand why this is the case you need to understand how gears work, how an 8 speed auto transmission works as well as how a DCT works. An 8 speed delivers more fuel efficiency (than a 6 speed) but it is not as efficient as a DCT because of how it works.

It's pointless continuing as this blog is dead. You should read by post below about the three Auto Motor und Sport comparos that ranked the Audi S4 over the BMW 335ix, 335i Sportline, and 335.

Your right it is pointless to continue, b/c the BMW gets better fuel economy in AWD, and better yet in RWD form than the Audi, while delivering the same level of performance, in a better luxury package.

It sounds like BMW is setting themselves up for performance-oriented-minded buyers to have to upgrade to the M Performance Model. In a way it sounds like a potentially brilliant selling point. Those buyers wanting the "spirit" of vintage BMW models will have to pay extra for the M Performance package. In a way, it's mirroring the strategy that Audi took, in that buyers had to make a substantial leap up to the S package cars for true performance above the base models. The difference is that BMW has decided, smartly, to still offer an in-between model with the 335.

"The Audi, while faster than it needs to be, is starting to feel a bit long in the tooth. We've seen the interior; we're getting bored with the styling; and we're totally indifferent at this point to its numb steering and FWD bias. As Angus MacKenzie often states, RWD is the proper way to build a car."

"2nd Place: Audi S4
Muscular, brutish, and confidence-inspiring, the S4 is let down by its age and a slightly underwhelming driving experience. Still, what an impressive athlete"

Well if the 2015 Audi A4/S4 Audi is newer, has a brand-new, larger and better quality interior and more aggressive styling then what advantages does the BMW 335i xDrive have over the S4 exactly?

The fact that the BMW 335i xDrive is RWD and has more involved steering than the FWD bias and number steering Audi S4 will not be enough to give the BMW 335i xDrive the win.

Chris Harris shows how quick and easy it is to increase the supercharged S4's horsepower and torque. And he shows the before and after impact of the change in two drag races with an RS4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KfMY96v_Gc

This is another reason the Audi S4 is better than the BMW 335. NO wonder Chris Harris owns that red S4.

If Audi wanted to thump the BMW M3 with the S4 -- Audi engineers could have boosted the S4's power-torque any time.

Lol the n55 is just as tunable... Also Chris Harris also owns an M3 and 911 gt3, the S4 is his beater car.

Ok, so you're admitting that Chris Harris bought the S4 over the 335? And using the S4 for his daily driving? Nuff said :)

What's the maximum HP & TQ gain that an aggressive tuning of the N55 on the 335i or ix can achieve?

"Ok, so you're admitting that Chris Harris bought the S4 over the 335? And using the S4 for his daily driving? Nuff said :)"

Na not really. He didn't get it new, he bought it used from a friend for super cheap.

What's far more important than the questionable Motor Trend test are the German car mag tests about the S4 and 335, since the Germans know more about luxury sports sedans than anyone else

Auto Motor und Sport did THREE different tests of this generation of the Audi S4 (both pre and post facelift) against the BMW 335i (F30 and E90 generations). The Audi S4 won ALL three tests. [Auto Motor und Sport is the ssecond largest car mag in Germany and in Europe]

Audi S4 vs BMW 335i x-drive test
- First place: Audi S4 3.0 TFSI Quattro 498 points ("The high-quality Audi S4 performs especially well on handling, engine, transmission, yet does not compromise required comfort and safety")
- Second place: BMW 335i x-Drive 494 points ("Visually subtle, but almost as fast as the Audi S4, the economical, convenient and easy to use 3 is only just beaten")
http://tinyurl.com/p9ved5v

Audi S4 vs BMW 335i Sport Line
- First place: Audi S4 3.0 TFSI 505 points ("High-quality, high traction, driving safely, comfortably and quickly collects enough points for the four-wheel drive S4 to offset its higher cost level and just defeat the 335i")
- Second place: BMW 335i Sport Line 502 points ("Second Place, but no cause for grief. The cheaper price of the 335i combines good comfort with high agility and driving dynamics, and a fiery, frugal turbo engine")
http://tinyurl.com/p4bx93s

Audi S4 vs BMW 335i
- First place: Audi S4 482 points ("The S4's driving dynamics sets the new standard. Whether in snow, rain or sun, the hottest A4 drives with superior precision, balance, neutrality and super sportscar brakes. The merciless brakes are also a reason why he wins despite significant increase in consumption and significantly higher costs")
- Second place: BMW 335i 474 points ("He is a proud second best. A powerful, economical and reasonable beautifully bassy sounding engine in the 335i is paired with the usual excellent handling on dry roads. The classic rear-wheel drive Three makes those who are not living in alpine regions completely happy -- at significantly lower cost")
http://tinyurl.com/lb2eag6

Thats great, but the F30 won this Motortrend test and it Also also won this sportauto test you forgot to post..

http://www.sportauto.de/vergleichstest/audi-s4-gegen-bmw-335i-im-vergleichstest-bayern-sportler-im-ring-duell-4982919.html?show=3

"What's far more important than the questionable Motor Trend test are the German car mag tests about the S4 and 335, since the Germans know more about luxury sports sedans than anyone else"

LOl, this statement lacks common sense, your from Canada so do you know more about hockey than anyone else....NO. Apple i phone are designed in america so that must mean an American review knows more about it than a Canadian one? NO. The fact is they all drive the SAME cars and draw their own conclusions bases on the experience, and data they collect. They are all legitimate and fair EVEN if the AUDI looses.

It's been my view for many years now that results of US based car magazines are suspect and too often heavily influenced by writer/editor bias. I don't even waste time reading them anymore, but that's just my opinion; you make your own.

"The Big Test" is supposed to be a (limited) comparison of (a few) 2013/2014 Luxury Sport Sedans. That said one really should define what is expected from this comparison. This is important to prevent "comparing apples to oranges". It's easy to define "Sedan". It gets more difficult to define "Performance" although at least this is quantifiable. The term "Luxury" has quite a bit of subjectivity depending on who you talk to. So, was this a fair comparison?

I can go into a diatribe about my views on this but it'll be a waste of time in a forum where too many express opinions based more on their emotions than on facts. What I will suggest is that those expressing opinions should avoid taking counter-arguments personally and should avoid making personal attacks when other's opinions don't agree with their own.