Myths about Audi

Well, since I've heard all sorts of non-sense on this site, I decided clear a fwe things up.

So here goes.

1. Was Audi the first to use turbos ?
2. Was Audi the first to use AWD on production and/or racing cars ?
3. Was Audi the first to use a dual/twin clutch gearbox ?

So the answers are no, no and no.

1. The turbocharger was invented by Swiss engineer Alfred Buchi.

The first production turbocharged automobile engines came from General Motors. The A-body Oldsmobile Cutlass Jetfire and Chevrolet Corvair Monza Spyder were both fitted with turbochargers in 1962. The Oldsmobile is often recognized as the first, since it came out a few months earlier than the Corvair.

In Europe, in 1969, BMW were the first to use a turbocharged car in the European Touring Car Championship, known as the 2002 TIK.
In 1973 the production version, called the 2002 Turbo, went into sale.

2. The first automaker to use AWD, on a racecar, was Spyker.
And that was in 1903, yes 1903.

Others such as Bugatti, Lotus, Jensen followed.

The Bugatti Type 53 model was historically significant in that it used four wheel drive. The Type 53 was one of the first racing cars to attempt to drive all four wheels.
The Type 53 was an adept hill-climber. Louis Chiron broke the records at La Turbie and Mont Ventoux in 1932. René Dreyfus reclaimed the La Turbie record from Count Carlo Felcie Trossi in a Type 53 in 1934.

The Jensen FF was an all wheel drive GT car produced by the British manufacturer Jensen between 1966 and 1971. Preceding, by far, the Audi Quattro it was the first non all-terrain production car equipped with all wheel drive.

The Subaru Leone AWD car was put into production in 1972.

3. The twin/dual clutch gearbox was invented by Andolphe Kégresse in the late 1930s.

Known as the "Transmission autoserve Kégresse" it was intended for the legendary Citroen Traction Avant.
However, due to circumstances, it never made into the Traction Avant.
After improvements it was presented at the 1947 Salon de Paris on a Citroen 11 CV.

After more than 45 years since Andolphe Kégresse first created it, Porsche had the PDK twin-clutch put into their endurance racers. This PDK gearbox was also used by Audi in their some of their rally cars.

Today BorgWarner is currently the leading manufacturer of this type of transmission.

They are most commonly sold under the name Direct-Shift Gearbox, as sold by Volkswagen Group.

In August 2005 BorgWarner, who call their technology "DualTronic", signed further agreements with two other (unnamed) European automotive manufacturers to incorporate their gearbox.

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 12:54:09 PM

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So now coments please.

chewy - 8/17/2006 1:19:43 PM

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How about this. Audi was the first to mass produce a passanger car with all wheel drive, everyone else followed. Audi is the first one to really used direct injection successfully on all of its engines (Mitsu had it before but they don't anymore, I guess it didn't work out that great for them) Audi is the first company to put direct injection on a turbo, Audi was the first one to introduce a diesel with electrical/direct injection, I might have got the terminology wrong there. Audi was the first to make a car with an aluminum frame/body the A8. Audi and VW were the first and only company so far to use a dual clutch gearbox on a production car. I bet other companies have their own achievements, but Audi has been on top of technology and still is.

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 1:28:31 PM

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Production AWD cars camed from Jensen and Subaru way before Audi.

And I'm not contesting Audi's merits, just contesting some myths created by biased un informed fanatics.

chewy - 8/17/2006 1:36:39 PM

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Jensen made very few cars compared to Audi. You were right about Subaru, but Audi started the trend for luxury cars to have awd.

PlanoA4 - 8/17/2006 1:39:09 PM

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So what was the point.of this post. I don’t recall anyone claiming Audi to have “Invented” any of these.

AWD- was first introduced on the Jensen and was extremely bulky and lacked torque sensing abilities. Audi was given credit for making the first SUCCESSFUL AWD with torque sensing capabilities.

I don’t recall anyone stating Audi invented the turbo, but you are correct in the fact that they did not, nor were they the first to incorporate the turbo in a gas engine.

Dual Clutch Gearbox- There have been several variations on the concept. The VW/Audi DSG is merely the most successful.

So you are correct, but still a bit off base. I’ll give this to you, since I never saw the bogus claims and we wouldn’t want you to be misinformed.

Mark - 8/17/2006 1:41:04 PM

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Okay I have a question for all you people that like writing this stuff....who cares who was first.

Where is Spyker? Where are GM's turbo's now? Jensen? Etc..? People waste more and more time barking about who was first and apparently a lot of people think that makes you king of that technology.

What were you trying to clear up? Nothing that you wrote hasn't graced these posts in some capacity.

Chewy's right - other car companies have made their own "first" achievements and either still to this day lead the pack or have passed on the technology and someone else picked it up, example DSG. Yep, Audi's got it and in a few years you'll see something like it on a few other makes as well.

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 1:45:38 PM

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OK, so now it's gone from "Audi was first others just copy them" to "who cares who was first or who invented it" .

How ironic, I guess no more <insert name here> copied Audi, cause Audi themselves copied others.

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 1:50:09 PM

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Also were is Spyker ?!

Read:
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Spyker D12 Peking-to-Paris
Dutch company Spyker claims to have invented a new category of vehicle with its Peking-to-Paris car, er, super sport/utility vehicle. Spyker has 90 orders for Peking-to-Paris, which won't be built before the end of 2007. The vehicle, powered by a Volkswagen-derived W12 engine, takes its name from a 1907 road rally that charted new ground, much the way Spyker hopes Peking-to-Paris will. Prices start at $290,000.
------------------------------------------------------

I guess a good line would be,
"From the people that brought you the AWD car. "

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 2:01:44 PM

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No it's not another Audi follows article, it's a clearing thru the BS article.

quizz - 8/17/2006 2:11:24 PM

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And so why is everyone so upset that Lexus became successful by "copying" the look of MB? They just made that look more accessible with more reliability just as Audi made AWD more successful with torque sensing.

And now that Lexus is the FIRST luxury car maker to produce hybrid luxury cars, does it suddenly make them better? Hell no. If BMW comes out with a better hybrid, who cares who was first?

PlanoA4 - 8/17/2006 2:20:14 PM

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DarkOneForce - Name the "inventions" you are talking about it is not as clear-cut as you imply.

Examples:

Did the Wright brother "invent" the flying machine. Nope the Greeks had drawings before before then. So they may have invented the concept. The Wright Bros made the first practical flying machine. Actually the first caveman that looked to the sky and saw a bird and wonder how to fly probably did it.

Did the first guy who wiped a glass surface with his hand invent the wiper?

Was the first “brake” actually a foot stuck out of something to stop it?

Was the first “Xenon” headlight invented by BMW (first in production), Nope invented by Philips?

Perhaps you confuse INNOVATION with INVENTION…

The advances you mentioned are all INNOVATIONS not INVENTIONS

Here is a little help:

Innovation: is the introduction of new ideas, which are intended to be The main driver for innovation is often the courage and energy to better the world. An essential element for innovation is its application in a commercially successful way. Innovation has punctuated and changed human history


Invention: a creation (a new device or process) resulting from study and experimentation

As you can read, (if you haven’t dozed off yet) the main difference is the application of the idea in a commercially successful way.

PlanoA4 - 8/17/2006 2:22:55 PM

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correction: intended to be got cut off it should be intended to be useful.

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 2:40:57 PM

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I never said Audi invented or claimed to have invented things.

I just said they were not the first to use many things that people around here implied they did.

PlanoA4 - 8/17/2006 2:44:07 PM

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Darkone of limited mind- you refer to BorgWarner and Audi utilizing their advances. Well Duh! That is why you use a partner.

Audi used BW for DSG, Magneride (sp?), TSI with Turbo were co developed, I think even CVT.

To get technical Quattro was initially a Torsen product that was co developed for use by Audi as well. However there are multiple technologies under the Quattro banner.

PlanoA4 - 8/17/2006 2:48:26 PM

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Just remember a lot of people spout off inconsistencies with little regard for accuracy or validity. While there are numerous innovation (verified with a patent), Inventions are much harder to trace to the roots.. I have heard numerous one from all camps. (I would never admit it but maybe I had spouted off one or two). The key is to correct it on the spot, and not limit it to one camp. After the poster gets bit and you nail him a few times he will soon watch his posts bit better.

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 2:49:23 PM

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Again, that was my point.

My point was in AWD, turbos, twin clutches, direct injection (forgot about it) they were
NOT THE FIRST = THE PRIMORDIAL INOVATORS as some people around here claimed.

Others got there first.
Whether you infuriated Audi fans like to admit it or not.

DarkOneForce - 8/17/2006 2:57:48 PM

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Also I know very that Audi are inovators.

07mcs - 8/17/2006 3:03:31 PM

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I would say the first to invent is the one who not only comes up with the idea, but has a concept or model that proves his idea is true, that is what I would call invention.

Anyone can say they invented time travel, but no one has come up with a device that enables you to do it

Mark - 8/17/2006 3:25:02 PM

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Unfortunately DFO, by trying to dismiss some claims that are made on this site you went further than you needed and got bit by some people. We all do. The feeling goes numb after your first few.

Mark - 8/17/2006 3:26:15 PM

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I am sorry, I should have added that you will also see that when someone is puffing up their chest about "so and so was first to do this" you will normally find a level headed person that follows with "so what?".

It's like comparing a 5.4s and 5.3s 0-60 time. Stupid.

PlanoA4 - 8/17/2006 4:48:29 PM

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logical you left off the "IL" at the beginning of your name. You might wanna correct that buddy.

AlexTx - 8/17/2006 6:33:26 PM

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Audi was the first to pionneer FWD in a car, first to pionneer steering wheel on the left side, and first to do crash test back in the 30's by rolling cars down a hill.
Also first car back in 1937 to pass 250mph mark!!!

GermanNut - 8/17/2006 6:43:03 PM

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Logical you are proved wrong yet again. I have an Audi and also a BMW!

You said Audi was just for people considering a LExus, Infiniti or Acura but you are wrong yet again.

IamEvilHomer - 8/17/2006 8:31:23 PM

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wwill - yes spyker is in america and uses AUDI ENGINES :)

Logical did you leave the BMW post again? Nothing fun going on there?

Soho - 8/17/2006 9:07:23 PM

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let me throw a log on this fire. Audi has the best finish under the skin of any car maker in its class or below. Audi also spends more money building each car than any car maker in its class or below. The finish of hinges, bolt head, screws, edges are far superior to anyone else. And another trivia: Audi does not use any twist ties or electrical tape under the hood or anywhere else. No one else comes close. Go check it out.

chewy - 8/17/2006 9:37:57 PM

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Cartrash

You are absolutely correct, the next generation of TDIs will be some very awesome diesels.

http://www.audiworld.com/news/06/2006archive.html

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/050601.html scroll down about half way.

Steve - 8/17/2006 10:42:30 PM

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I likes AutoSpies a LOT more before the days when anyone could post anything on this site :-(

SixxFive - 8/18/2006 12:26:15 AM

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DarkOneForce - I understand your point. Thanks for the research and for setting the record straight.

The 'I like Audi and need to defend my decision' insecurity continues in full force.

Matthew1 - 8/18/2006 2:11:27 AM

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Wow avanti5010,

Way to dig up false and shameful journalism, and problems on cars from over 30 years ago!

Because the 1970's sure was a time when all cars had sublime quality levels!

Duuuhhhh.

RefuG - 8/18/2006 4:20:33 AM

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Audi ppl need to calm down, they're just mad cause they're drivin rebadged VW's. So they will find any useless info to back up an argument. Get over it and let it go. Like darkone stated in this post, Audi was not first one to come wit this AWD/turbo/DSG, I dont care what you wanna argue but darkone got the correct facts, but Audi boneheads always wanna use stuff to their adventage... sory ladies but its not gonna work. Audi=Company without emmotion, plain designs.


G

chewy - 8/18/2006 4:45:51 AM

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The whole "uninted acceleration" was a rigged by the scums as 60 minutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi#The_modern_era_of_Audi

Mark - 8/18/2006 6:38:21 AM

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RefuG....and where would be the point of your post? Come up with something original next time you want to get in on the Audi bashing.

Rebadged VW's.....you all are just insane.

iown1 - 8/18/2006 10:13:17 AM

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following some of the logic on here, if audi is a rebadged volkswagen and porshce owns the majority of stock in vw, isn't audi a rebadged porsche?

GermanNut - 8/18/2006 12:48:11 PM

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I get such an icky feeling knowing that my Audi has the best build quality out of Audi, BMW and MB and that it also has a universally appreciated and emulated interior.

What an icky feeling.....

RefuG - 8/18/2006 8:04:51 PM

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^^^ "very good interiors" that one always gets me. Are you ppl crazy.


G

Matthew1 - 8/18/2006 10:10:10 PM

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Shut up logical.

BMW's aren't the pinnacle of motoring, they are just a normal german car which happens to have good handling.

Get your arse out of your BMW brochures and look around. Not everyone is satisfied with only a badge, like you are.

if you weren't such a shallow prick, you might wake up to the fact that BMW don't make the best cars.

Go test-drive some other brands. Or go home.

Matthew1 - 8/19/2006 3:19:14 AM

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You won't tell my wife, will you?

GermanNut - 8/19/2006 5:32:01 PM

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Logical your lack of logic is sooo funny. An RS4 which costs $66K is for someone who couldn't afford the $56K M3.

A whole lot of logic in that post

GermanNut - 8/21/2006 1:33:22 PM

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yes, you can price it as high as you want but how can the Audi RS4 be a CHEAPER alternative if it COSTS MORE.

That doesn't make any sense logical....