New A8 Targets Next Gen S-Class - But Can They Conquer The Undisputed King Of The Jungle?

The battle for global sales supremacy will be determined by the Big German 3's success in small compact cars such as the Audi A3 Sedan and Mercedes-Benz CLA along with SUVs such as the Audi Q5, BMW X3 and Mercedes-Benz GLK.

While the big luxury flagship sedans such as the Audi A8, BMW 7-series and Mercedes-Benz S-class are certainly important for brand image and are showcases of the brand's latest technology while also providing bigger profit margins, volume-wise on a global scale they represent a very small amount of sales.

You have a knack for stating the obvious....but unfortunately off topic. The average consumer does not care about "global sales supremacy".

Mercedes has no need to worry about a refreshed A8 since the S class is obviously the car to beat in this segment as it is easily the most popular according to sales numbers.

NO ! Next question please.

LOL, the question is even laughable

Based on news reports, sales of the new S-Class will begin only in September in both the USA and in Europe (hence Audi's timing to introduce its facelifted A8 on August 21).

For now, Mercedes dealerships in the USA are still selling the outgoing S-Class. Those Americans who bought the outgoing Mercedes S-Class this year have bought a car that is inferior compared to the current (pre-facelifted) Audi A8.

The Germans know more about making, testing and driving their German luxury cars than anyone else:

- That's why, in Germany, more Audi A8 cars (1,676) were sold than Mercedes S-Class (1,381) or BMW 7 Series (1,661) in the upper class luxury segment in the first half of 2013. Furthermore, Audi sold, more total cars in Germany than Mercedes or BMW.
http://tinyurl.com/mrfaequ

- That's why the top German car mags -- in their 2010 and 2011 comparison tests -- all consistently rated the new Audi A8 as best in its class ahead of the S-Class and BMW 7 Series For example...
http://tinyurl.com/kvxa4gn
http://tinyurl.com/jwo6l6s
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http://tinyurl.com/oc282pv
http://tinyurl.com/otv2tba
http://tinyurl.com/o3jfxhq

Information on the Audi A8's leadership has been reported, for years, in the luxury-lifestyle media for wealthy Americans. The Robb Report, a top luxury-lifestyle magazine, has chosen several Audi A8 cars as its best cars of the year. The Robb Report explains: "Ask any auto designer--off the record and after a couple of drinks--which marques he or she most admires and chances are Audi will be mentioned. Audi has long been regarded as a designer’s car, in the best sense of the term. Across the model line the exterior and interior plans are understated and impeccably executed. At the head of the Audi-sedan hierarchy is the A8, a taut four-door that is as satisfying to drive as it is to experience from any seat in the capacious cabin."
http://robbreport.com/Automobiles/Wheels-Audi-Brings-Its-A-Game

Robb Report Car of the Year 2013: Audi S8
http://robbreport.com/paid-issue/car-year-2013-audi-s8

Robb Report Car of the Year 2006: Audi A8 L W12
http://robbreport.com/Automobiles/Car-of-the-Year-2006-Audi-A8-L-W1212

Robb Report Best of the Best 2011: Sedans: Audi A8
http://robbreport.com/Automobiles/Best-of-the-Best-2011-Sedans-Audi-A8

Robb Report Best of the Best 2012: Sedans: Audi A8 L W12
http://robbreport.com/Automobiles/Best-of-the-Best-2012-Sedans-Audi-A8-L-W12

Cigar Aficionado: Audi A8
http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/15814

These luxury-lifestyle media were impressed by what the A8 offered.
http://tinyurl.com/k8fn5an
http://tinyurl.com/me3q9uw
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Wake up! Audi had already conquered the 'King Of The Jungle' S-Class i

2012 Global Mercedes S class = 48,238

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_S-Class

2012 Global Audi A8 sales = 35,932

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_A8

Also the average S class has about a $10k higher starting price than an A8, and the A8 can be had in FWD in some markets..

2012 Global 7 series sales = 59,184

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_7_Series

PQ40, Your numbers are wrong.
- PQ40: "2012 Global Mercedes S class = 48,238" Not sure where you got this figure but it's waaay off base here. A total of 65,128 S-Class sedans were delivered to customers in 2012.
http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-1549267-1-1597098-1-0-0-0-0-0-11702-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html

- PQ40: "2012 Global Audi A8 sales = 35,932." Nope, that's not sales. That's the number of A8 cars produced according to your wikipedia link. A total of 38,636 A8 sedans were actually delivered to customers in 2012.
http://www.audi.com/etc/medialib/ngw/company/2013_annual_general.Par.0005.File.pdf/finanzteil_2012_audi.pdf

The 38,636 people who bought an Audi A8 bought a superior car compared to the 65,128 people who bought the inferior Mercedes S-Class and 59,184 who bought the inferior BMW 7-Series (based on German car magazine tests which consistently rated the Audi A8 as the best full-size luxury car of the pack).


PQ40: "Also the average S class has about a $10k higher starting price than an A8"
So what you're saying is that Mercedes is price gouging ignorant customers for its inferior S-Class product... while Audi offers decent pricing and better value for its superior A8.

PQ40: "A8 can be had in FWD in some markets"
If some customers a few markets desire the A8 TDI with FWD for fuel efficiency, then Audi is meeting their luxury needs. Even this A8 is still a highly capable, prestigious and desirable full-size luxury saloon that's very easy to live with.

LOL. the S-class is king. end of story.

Much of Mercedes S-Class sales come from irrational buyers seeking the 'illusion of status' versus the best possible car in its class -- thus it isn't the end of the story.

Wake up! Audi had already conquered the 'King Of The Jungle' S-Class in 2010. The Audi A8 has been the undisputed King of the Jungle worldwide in full-size luxury cars since 2010 to 2013 -- at least until the new S-Class is introduced. [But even though Lions are the king of their jungle, they're not the largest population in their jungle]

Paradoxically, the Mercedes S-Class and BMW 7-Series have been the more popular cars (based on sales numbers) due to the ignorance of wealthy buyers about the leadership of the A8 -- while the Audi A8 is more successful in Europe due to Europeans being more informed and rational about buying the better car. While the Europeans learned from the German comparos that Audi was the king of the jungle, the North Americans were never given an opportunity to learn that the Audi A8 was the better car than the Mercedes A-Class, BMW 7-Series, or Lexus LS. It's this ignorance here that's truly laughable.

Mercedes contributed to this ignorance by carefully protecting the image of its inferior outgoing S-Class as king of the jungle -- Mercedes refused to supply S-Class cars for comparo tests by American car magazines. According to Car and Driver: "Mercedes-Benz ought to be here with its S-class, long the preferred shipping container for dictators and divas alike. But the current model is counting down the months to retirement, and the new one isn’t ready for C/D comparison testing, so the company requested that we proceed without it." That was 2.5 years ago -- even though today that old S-Class is still being sold by Mercedes. American car magazines know what Mercedes is doing yet have been to cover up Mercedes' hiding its S-Class from being evaluated and exposed as the inferior vehicle that it has been since 2010!
http://tinyurl.com/87x9uxm

Of course Audi has been planning to upgrade its current 'king of the jungle' A8 sedan to respond to and compete with the new Mercedes S-Class after it goes on sale in September. Now that Mercedes will come out of hiding and sending its S-Class cars for comparison tests, Audi wants to make sure its A8 remains a compelling choice.
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Both Mercedes and Audi are doing whatever they can with the new S-Class and the facelifted A8 for a key reason: China accounts for about half of the worldwide sales of both cars. Strategically, China is the most important market for both cars (even though these cars also serve the function of being the brand's flagship in all markets).

Audi's image will always be an also-ran in the luxury segment behind Mercedes and BMW, this is not even factoring Jaguars, Maserati, Bentleys, and other even higher-line Marques.

You must be living in the 1990s.

The Luxury Institute's 2013 study ranked Audi first, ahead of Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.
"U.S. luxury automobile consumers rank Audi highest in the 2013 Luxury Consumer Experience (LCEI) survey conducted by the independent and objective New York-based Luxury Institute. LCEI scores (1-10) are averages of wealthy respondents’ ratings across ten areas of consideration, including evaluations of the vehicles they own or lease, their dealership experience, and their overall brand buying and ownership experience.
In addition to earning the highest LCEI score (8.36) of the ten brands surveyed, Audi ranks first for the consistently superior design and quality materials of its cars. In addition, Audi’s dealership staff is recognized for being the most trustworthy and knowledgeable. Audi also leads other carmakers in terms of future repeat purchase intent, with 96% of respondents saying they would consider buying or leasing an Audi again based on their experience with the brand."
http://luxuryinstitute.com/blog/?p=2298

Audi - Putting Old Luxury on Notice
http://thearf-org-aux-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/ogilvy/cs/Ogilvy-09-CS-Audi.pdf

Satriani1 You love to just throw out numbers to support your case. However flawed your logic. The fact is the S-class runs the show always has and from the looks of things will continue to be the the car to beat in this category. Yes you may be able to find an article where a brand new a8 was able to beat a cycle ending S-class. But to the people who actually buy these cars the numbers don't lie. People prefer the s-class two to one over the A8. I can post articles that even state Audi executives know they are back to the drawling board with the release of this new S-class. With the latest release people are comparing this car to Bentley and Rolls Royce. The S-class is considered one of if not the best car in the world. Audi and BMW do lower end heavy volume cars well maybe better than Mercedes. But when you step into this class the s-class cl/s coupe can't be beat. As stated in about every publication review of the new S. All hail the king...

merc07: "You love to just throw out numbers to support your case. However flawed your logic."
Most others would say that diligently support my arguments with facts, whle it's your arguments that are flawed and lacking in facts.
Put your money where your mouth is: prove which of my numbers are wrong/irrelevant or where my logic is flawed.

merc07: "The fact is the S-class runs the show always has"
That's arrogant. And your misinformation contradicts the reality. The S-Class never 'ran' any show. The Lexus LS was the top-selling flagship luxury sedan for 15 of the first 17 years following its debut in 1990.

merc07: "The S-class is considered one of if not the best car in the world... Yes you may be able to find an article where a brand new a8 was able to beat a cycle ending S-class."
That's false. The outgoing S-Class has not been the best car in the world in the last three years since the Audi A8 came out in 2010. All the top German car mags -- in their 2010 and 2011 comparison tests -- all consistently rated the new Audi A8 as best in its class ahead of the S-Class and BMW 7 Series.
For example, these tests were done in 2010 (three years ago) and 2011 (two years ago), when the S-Class was still two to three years before the end of its cycle (the current S-Class cycle will end in September 2013).
http://tinyurl.com/kvxa4gn
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http://tinyurl.com/oc282pv
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merc07: "and from the looks of things will continue to be the the car to beat in this category... As stated in about every publication review of the new S. All hail the king"
Every new generation German car with new body and technology typically has the chance to re-take leadership of its segment.
'First drive reviews' are often misleading. Comparison tests are more meaningful. Let's see who wins a proper German car mag comparison test between the new S-Class, facelifted A8 and facelifted 7-Series when it is done in a few months.
There was also hype from 'first drive reviews' that the facelifted Mercedes E Class and BMW 7 Series would re-take leadership of the mid-size luxury class from the Audi A6. That is, until the first proper German car mag comparison test showed the A6 was still king...
http://tinyurl.com/ltjbewa

merc07: "With the latest release people are comparing this car to Bentley and Rolls Royce."
The Germans understand these cars better than anyone else so we should wait for their proper comparison tests.
I chuckled when 00R recently posted an Auto Express review which compared the new S-Class with a Rolls Royce. The young reviewer Luke Madden had just graduated from university three years ago. People who buy ultra luxury cars tend to fly first-class in the best airlines, stay at the bes

I chuckled when 00R recently posted an Auto Express review which compared the new S-Class with a Rolls Royce. The young reviewer Luke Madden had just graduated from university three years ago. People who buy ultra luxury cars tend to fly first-class in the best airlines, stay at the best hotels, eat in the best restaurants, be members of exclusive clubs, live in ultra-luxurious homes, etc. What actual experience could this young reviewer from Auto Express possibly have in living the luxury lifestyle as well as in reviewing high-end luxury cars to qualify him to assess a Rolls Royce or even S-Class? Or was the reviewer just parroting the marketing hype given by Mercedes?
Mercedes failed with its Maybach to supplant Bentley and Rolls Royce. But that hasn't stopped Daimler CEO Dieter Zetsche from boasting that the upcoming $250,000 "Super S-Class" (extended wheelbase) will be able to compete with the Rolls-Royce Ghost and the Bentley Continental Flying Spur in the ultra luxury market -- even though that version of the S-Class is still in development.

merc07: "I can post articles that even state Audi executives know they are back to the drawling board with the release of this new S-class."
Please post the articles so we can find out whether some car writer imagined Audi executives said this... or whether Audi executives actually said this.
In any case, every new generation of a car should emerge from the drawing board.

merc07: "to the people who actually buy these cars the numbers don't lie. People prefer the s-class two to one over the A8."
The sales numbers don't mean much. Most people bought the Audi A8 because they realized it is the better car after doing their homework/research (and they tested the S-Class and 7-Series). On the other hand, most S-Class blindly bought the Mercedes because they have fooled themselves into believing that it will give them more status. Most S-Class buyers don't know enough about the A8 to understand whether they prefer the S-Class over the Audi A8. If they did their homework, they'd buy the A8 :)
Prof. Paul Krugman (Nobel Prize winner in Economics) explains why some rich superficial people mindlessly bought their Mercedes to buy the illusion of status -- not because it's a good car. These car buyers are not making rational decisions to buy the car bacuse it is well-designed, luxurious, comfortable, performs well, is sporty, is safe, etc. -- they are irrationally buying the brand because they are hoping that it is a status good that will impress others. Which is silly because smarter people are realizing that the Audi A8 is the superior car over the current S-Class.
http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/mercedes.html
Mercedes tries harder to perpetuate the myths about its cars. Compared to Audi, Mercedes spends far more on advertising to influence the perceptions of car-buyers in the market for luxury cars (Mercedes' measured-media outlay totaled around $250 million in 2012, according to Kantar Media).

You have way too much time on your hands to type this empty diatribe.

delan: Put your money where your big mouth is: prove what I said is empty or false (make sure you use facts and logic) -- otherwise you have too much time on your hands to type empty comments.
You must be another fanboy who uses big words like diatribe without understanding its meaning.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/diatribe?s=t

So cause Rolls Royce Silver Ghost Sales are lower than the sales of the Audi 8 , that means that the A8 is better than the Ghost? very silly logic. S class still the King in this category , and of course it will always sales less cause the top of the S class cost is almost twice of the 7 series and A8. S class still undisputed leader in this segment, not in Sales but certainly in luxury, technology and innovation....

the A8/S8 is a wonderful car. it is not an S-class. and you don't overtake 75 years of preeminence with one fabulous model.

short answer: NO.

The Mercedes S Class did not exist before 1972.

Mercedes Benz did not exist before 1926.

Audi existed since 1909... and sold its first cars in 1910.

short answer: AUDI A8 HAS BEEN THE BEST CAR IN ITS CLASS IN THE PAST 3 YEARS.